[Tommy Williamsen]

https://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/north-america/usa?page=11

Very fascinating list with three courses that are just barely open

[Erik J. Barzeski]

https://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/north-america/usa?page=11

Very fascinating list with three courses that are just barley open

Fixed sizing.

[Mike Worth]

Seems there are at least two newly opened courses each year that are top 100 worthy.  At least that’s the trend this decade.


Over time, that means lot of great courses are going to be pushed out of the top 100 because there are, well, only 100 places.


Isn’t it time to split these lists into a modern era and then a pre-1960 list?  Or something like that?

[Ben Sims]

Seems there are at least two newly opened courses each year that are top 100 worthy.  At least that’s the trend this decade.


Over time, that means lot of great courses are going to be pushed out of the top 100 because there are, well, only 100 places.


Isn’t it time to split these lists into a modern era and then a pre-1960 list?  Or something like that?

Not sure if this is pejorative or not. Golfweek done did that.

[Tom_Doak]

https://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/north-america/usa?page=11

Very fascinating list with three courses that are just barely open

Three?  There must be at least a half dozen!


What did we say in the last ranking thread about publications being in a rush to "scoop" the others and be the first to rank a new course?  Oh, yeah, they do that.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Isn’t it time to split these lists into a modern era and then a pre-1960 list?  Or something like that?

Why if the list is to have any meaning as an arbiter of Quality? 
You wii then need a composite list.....

[Thomas Dai]

A Top-100 course for hackers, duffers and lessor amateur players might be useful.
TOC without its current mowing lines might well be in top spot.
Could be wrong but I'm not sure many others from the usually published Top-100 listings would be though.
Other contenders?
atb

[Adrian_Stiff]

A Top-100 course for hackers, duffers and lessor amateur players might be useful.
TOC without its current mowing lines might well be in top spot.
Could be wrong but I'm not sure many others from the usually published Top-100 listings would be though.
Other contenders?
atb

Great site but they have been invaded with crazy raters or a system of no sense.

[Cal Seifert]

I still can’t believe they have a course in Brazil named santapienza rated in their top100 world list that I have never even heard another mention of. How many raters have actually played it? Has any rater from another magazine ever been?

[Tom_Doak]

I still can’t believe they have a course in Brazil named santapienza rated in their top100 world list that I have never even heard another mention of. How many raters have actually played it? Has any rater from another magazine ever been?

It helps when one of the owners of the web site is a fan of it.


But to be fair, a lot of rankings are tainted by such stuff.  The current GOLF DIGEST top 100 in America includes places like Pikewood National, The Alotian, Congaree, Whispering Pines, and Canyata -- who's ever been to Canyata?  And they finally just bumped out Rich Harvest Farms, which was named after its owner.


The recent GOLF Magazine list bumped out Ellerston, but still includes Ardfin and Nine Bridges.

[Tim_Weiman]

I still can’t believe they have a course in Brazil named santapienza rated in their top100 world list that I have never even heard another mention of. How many raters have actually played it? Has any rater from another magazine ever been?

It helps when one of the owners of the web site is a fan of it.


But to be fair, a lot of rankings are tainted by such stuff.  The current GOLF DIGEST top 100 in America includes places like Pikewood National, The Alotian, Congaree, Whispering Pines, and Canyata -- who's ever been to Canyata?  And they finally just bumped out Rich Harvest Farms, which was named after its owner.


The recent GOLF Magazine list bumped out Ellerston, but still includes Ardfin and Nine Bridges.

Tom,


The industry will never give up making lists, but I prefer what you did with the Confidential Guide: not just a rating but some comments on what is noteworthy about a course.

[Paul Rudovsky]

Sooo, as the only person who can truthfully say they have played EVERY course that has EVER been included on any reputable World USA top 100...I would offer the following comments on courses questioned above:


Santapazienza--played 4/23/2023.  First put on a World Top 100 by Top100website (I am a Golf Magazine Panelist) in 2020 and subsequentially underwent a major renovation which was completed about a year ago.  Based on my 2 day visit (day one arrived late and just did a drive around the course with one of owners...played it next day), it did NOT belong on a World 100 list in 2020 and Tom's comment is correct...but IMO today's course is deserving to World 100 status.  It is very big and bold from Blue and Black tees boxes...and yet playable and fun from white and front tee boxes.  It's one major negative os long distances from green to next tee on front nine which is located in a rain forest.  Environmental laws make it illegal to cut most vegetation in rain forests...and the drives on the cart paths thru the rain forests (Note...these paths were cut before the environmental laws were enacted) are literally fascinating.


I TOTALLY agree w Tom regarding Ardfin, Alotian, Canyata, Pikewood Natl, Rich Harvest Farms, and Nine Bridges.  Disagree regarding Congaree and Whispering Pines.  But as I have said before...there is no "right answer" to this stuff...it is like picking a spouse...everyone had different tastes

[Tom_Doak]

I TOTALLY agree w Tom regarding Ardfin, Alotian, Canyata, Pikewood Natl, Rich Harvest Farms, and Nine Bridges.  Disagree regarding Congaree and Whispering Pines.  But as I have said before...there is no "right answer" to this stuff...it is like picking a spouse...everyone had different tastes

Paul:


I didn't mean to pass judgment on that list of courses architecturally . . . I really can't, since Pikewood National is the only one of them I've seen [and I kind of liked it].  I have no particular interest in seeing the others.


My point was that there are a bunch of private courses now which seem to exist only to be rated . . . they are rich-guy creations with no sustainable business model.  And they do tend to pull out all the stops to impress raters when they visit.  I suppose someone might claim that Tara Iti or Sebonack are rich-men's courses, too, but those at least have a thriving membership. 

[Sean_A]

I TOTALLY agree w Tom regarding Ardfin, Alotian, Canyata, Pikewood Natl, Rich Harvest Farms, and Nine Bridges.  Disagree regarding Congaree and Whispering Pines.  But as I have said before...there is no "right answer" to this stuff...it is like picking a spouse...everyone had different tastes

Paul:


I didn't mean to pass judgment on that list of courses architecturally . . . I really can't, since Pikewood National is the only one of them I've seen [and I kind of liked it].  I have no particular interest in seeing the others.


My point was that there are a bunch of private courses now which seem to exist only to be rated . . . they are rich-guy creations with no sustainable business model.  And they do tend to pull out all the stops to impress raters when they visit.  I suppose someone might claim that Tara Iti or Sebonack are rich-men's courses, too, but those at least have a thriving membership.

The way things are going, top 100 is a rich man’s course.

Merry Christmas

[Paul Rudovsky]

I didn't mean to pass judgment on that list of courses architecturally . . . I really can't, since Pikewood National is the only one of them I've seen [and I kind of liked it].  I have no particular interest in seeing the others.


My point was that there are a bunch of private courses now which seem to exist only to be rated . . . they are rich-guy creations with no sustainable business model.  And they do tend to pull out all the stops to impress raters when they visit.  I suppose someone might claim that Tara Iti or Sebonack are rich-men's courses, too, but those at least have a thriving membership.


Tom--

In that sense I agree with your point although I would exclude Congaree which has a wonderful charitable component to its purpose.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I didn't mean to pass judgment on that list of courses architecturally . . . I really can't, since Pikewood National is the only one of them I've seen [and I kind of liked it].  I have no particular interest in seeing the others.


My point was that there are a bunch of private courses now which seem to exist only to be rated . . . they are rich-guy creations with no sustainable business model.  And they do tend to pull out all the stops to impress raters when they visit.  I suppose someone might claim that Tara Iti or Sebonack are rich-men's courses, too, but those at least have a thriving membership.


Tom--

In that sense I agree with your point although I would exclude Congaree which has a wonderful charitable component to its purpose.

I agree that many of the top 100 courses fulfill a rich man's dreams. On the flip side, public golf has never been better.

[Tom_Doak]

Wow . . . I was just exploring the new top100 web site, and they list their top ten reviewers of courses. 


The guy who's reviewed more courses than any other is M. James Ward. 


At least we know he's playing them all from the tips!

[JMEvensky]

Wow . . . I was just exploring the new top100 web site, and they list their top ten reviewers of courses. 


The guy who's reviewed more courses than any other is M. James Ward. 


At least we know he's playing them all from the tips!

A blast from the past.

[Joe Bausch]

Wow . . . I was just exploring the new top100 web site, and they list their top ten reviewers of courses. 

The guy who's reviewed more courses than any other is M. James Ward. 

At least we know he's playing them all from the tips!

He's no pea-shooter. 

[Mike Worth]

Wow . . . I was just exploring the new top100 web site, and they list their top ten reviewers of courses. 


The guy who's reviewed more courses than any other is M. James Ward. 


At least we know he's playing them all from the tips!

a long hitterand known blow hard

[Tommy Williamsen]

Many years ago the pro at Musgrove Mill paired me with Matt. MM is a course where position off the tee is important. He refused to hit the prudent shot off the tee. He would only hit driver, so some of the lines were crazy, and he paid the price. Of course, it was the course's fault. I took one for the course.

[Joe Bausch]

Many years ago the pro at Musgrove Mill paired me with Matt. MM is a course where position off the tee is important. He refused to hit the prudent shot off the tee. He would only hit driver, so some of the lines were crazy, and he paid the price. Of course, it was the course's fault. I took one for the course.

There’s an upset!

[Kevin_Reilly]

Now hold on partner!


For newcomers, an old MW thread from the old days.


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,14591.0.html

[Stewart Abramson]

Now hold on partner!

For newcomers, an old MW thread from the old days.

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,14591.0.html

You just made me waste an hour

[Tom_Doak]

Wow . . . I was just exploring the new top100 web site, and they list their top ten reviewers of courses. 

The guy who's reviewed more courses than any other is M. James Ward. 

At least we know he's playing them all from the tips!

a long hitterand known blow hard

I didn't mean to declare open season on Matt.  On the contrary, listening to his perspective on how golf courses "rewarded driver play" helped me to understand that point of view better.


By the same token, I'd agree that his analysis was a bit one-sided, and I highlighted his involvement because I thought everyone would take the rankings a little less seriously if they knew it was the collective opinion of guys like Matt.

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