St Andrews Links Intercollegiate

[Jason Thurman]

What's up with "medal match play" and free relief from Grannie Clark's Wynd? Who's the committee here?


Note: this happened several days ago I'm just catching up on the recording.

[Bill Shamleffer]

What's up with "medal match play" and free relief from Grannie Clark's Wynd? Who's the committee here?


Note: this happened several days ago I'm just catching up on the recording.

The medal match play was so that all would play all 18 holes.


The relief on the road crossing the 18th was for Temporary Water, it was not relief from the road itself.

[Marty Bonnar]

Why on Earth the Old Course gets closed for a week for shee-ite like this is beyond me. It’s bad enough it gets closed for the annual yawnfest that is the Dunhill. That jumped the shark years ago when it stopped being an international pro tourney and became a celebrity-infested excuse for corporate bullshit.
F.

[JJShanley]

I'd push back on your point about the collegiate tournament, Marty. Granted I attended the three days as a grad school alum of one of the four universities.


The men's and women's programs of the four universities played one round over the Old Course - the final day - and two on the Jubilee. Those courses were only closed on the specific days on which they hosted a competitive round.


I didn't speak to any of the players, but the parents I spoke to over the three days seemed thrilled that their kids had a chance to compete at St. Andrews. The final day medal match play game that I followed pitted two good friends against each other. They played in brutal conditions, personally it felt like someone was turning a screw into the base of my spine, but each player seemed to get on with it. Over the weekend I tried to determine what I would have had to shoot to tie them in a handicapped match. I'm not sure I would have tied them with that ~8 shot (90% difference) donation.


A member of the ND Women's team shot 70 on the OC, including an apparent up and down from the Strath bunker. I hope she got her scorecard back to frame alongside the Met Office weather report for the day!


I agree with you on the Dunhill. I've little-to-no interest in it.

[Marty Bonnar]

JJ,
Over-exaggeration? Moi?
 
Apologies for the rant. It was - mostly - directed at the Dunhill.
Hope you enjoyed the event.
Love,
M.

[JJShanley]

Being an over-exubert booster for a certain university? Moi?

I had been to the 1990 and 2000 Opens, where my late dad and I didn't venture past 5-13 green, so I enjoyed walking the course for the first time.

[Jason Thurman]

After watching Ing Iadpleum hole out from the Valley of Sin for 68, I'm now in on medal match play.


JohnJo, I'm happy for you. Had to have been a great trip.


I do love that we're getting the kids all this exposure to The Old Course lately. I couldn't believe Austin Greaser was here again.


Casual and non-golfing Americans already can't believe any of the shit I tell them about St Andrews. I can't wait to say "The road on 18 is in play, but only if it's not raining" for the first time.

[Tony_Muldoon]

What's up with "medal match play"

The medal match play was so that all would play all 18 holes.

Above edited...


I've never heard of medal match play.


https://thatsagimmie.com/medal-match-play-scoring-how-to-play/?utm_content=cmp-true

Can't see how it ensures the match always goes to 18?
Surely win an unassailable no of points and it's game over?
Eliminates Dormie, a feature unique to Golf!


Usually produces a 'fair' winner seem to be its justification? 

[Matt_Cohn]

What's up with "medal match play"

The medal match play was so that all would play all 18 holes.

Above edited...


I've never heard of medal match play.


https://thatsagimmie.com/medal-match-play-scoring-how-to-play/?utm_content=cmp-true

Can't see how it ensures the match always goes to 18?
Surely win an unassailable no of points and it's game over?
Eliminates Dormie, a feature unique to Golf!


Usually produces a 'fair' winner seem to be its justification?

It’s head-to-head stroke play. 72 vs 73 in the first match gets you one point. 64 vs 77 in the second match gets you another point. Team with the most points wins.


Incidentally, I spectated a match play college tournament at Cypress Point today. The match I watched in the morning was won 4&3. Imagine finishing #15 at Cypress Point in broad daylight and just walking back to the clubhouse! 

[Ben Stephens]

What's up with "medal match play"

The medal match play was so that all would play all 18 holes.

Above edited...


I've never heard of medal match play.


https://thatsagimmie.com/medal-match-play-scoring-how-to-play/?utm_content=cmp-true

Can't see how it ensures the match always goes to 18?
Surely win an unassailable no of points and it's game over?
Eliminates Dormie, a feature unique to Golf!


Usually produces a 'fair' winner seem to be its justification?

The Old Dunhill Cup Team events at St Andrews were medal matchplay if you can remember Tony

[Tony_Muldoon]

The link I found says its Matchplay unless theres a tie then you look at the total no of shots to determine winner.
(this seems to only work without handicaps?)

Never watched the old Dunhill, so I'm still no wiser as to what the system that was used was determined as some form of "Matchplay" ? 

[Adam Lawrence]

The link I found says its Matchplay unless theres a tie then you look at the total no of shots to determine winner.
(this seems to only work without handicaps?)

Never watched the old Dunhill, so I'm still no wiser as to what the system that was used was determined as some form of "Matchplay" ?

Two players play each other at strokeplay: the one who shoots the lower round wins the point. I think the Dunhill was three a side, so each tie comprised three ‘matches’.

[Tony_Muldoon]

The link I found says its Matchplay unless theres a tie then you look at the total no of shots to determine winner.
(this seems to only work without handicaps?)

Never watched the old Dunhill, so I'm still no wiser as to what the system that was used was determined as some form of "Matchplay" ?

Two players play each other at strokeplay: the one who shoots the lower round wins the point. I think the Dunhill was three a side, so each tie comprised three ‘matches’.

Thanks Adam, it just needs a catchy name e.g. Strokeplay Hitoffs In Teams.

'cos Matchplay it aint.

[Brian_Ewen]

I didn't speak to any of the players, but the parents I spoke to over the three days seemed thrilled that their kids had a chance to compete at St. Andrews.

If only Americas best courses were as accommodating   

[A.G._Crockett]

I didn't speak to any of the players, but the parents I spoke to over the three days seemed thrilled that their kids had a chance to compete at St. Andrews.

If only Americas best courses were as accommodating   

I’d go easy on this.  Two of the three days were on Jubilee, with only the final day on TOC.  I’m not sure that all 8 teams even played the final day; it may have been only two men’s and two women’s teams.  It’s also worth remembering that these are public courses; elite, yes, but public.  I think if you take a look at the schedules of top US college teams, you’ll see that they play at some pretty decent private courses here.

[JJShanley]

Indeed. Cypress has hosted a college event this week that seems to have been foursomes and fourball matchplay followed by singles.

At the risk of carrying water for the organizers, in addition to collegiate sports teams of a certain university, the men's and women's team (6 players each) of the four universities played the Old Course on that final day.


If memory serves, there were 24 two-ball tee times that day at 10 minute intervals with the #3 seed playing #4 seeds prior to #1 playing #2. I don't think the 3 v. 4 matches were broadcast. The course was otherwise closed to the public that day.


The group that I followed spent a more time on 13 than anyone would have wanted. Heck of a hole and not one that I had thought about before that.

I don't imagine that I would have attended had my school not been invited. But I enjoyed the chance to walk around and see it closer up than I did at the Walker Cup a few weeks ago.

[Richard Fisher]

Older UK-based readers will surely recall the old Piccadilly Medal, a knock-out tournament based on 18 hole 'matches' of medal play, designed to ensure everything reached the 18th green (the historic problem with TV coverage of match-play before the development of properly mobile cameras). I recall one renewal at Hillside from the late-1970s?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Older UK-based readers will surely recall the old Piccadilly Medal, a knock-out tournament based on 18 hole 'matches' of medal play, designed to ensure everything reached the 18th green (the historic problem with TV coverage of match-play before the development of properly mobile cameras). I recall one renewal at Hillside from the late-1970s?

Surely if a player is playing 5 shot less with 3 holes to go theres little interest in seeing the game out?


Matchplay is focused on a hole by hole basis.
For a team event surely Easier to award a team eg X points for a win (classic Matchplay) but insist all holes are played out and the difference in holes won can be added to the totals- allowing some players to redeem themselves at the end and others to emphasize the margin of victory.
Playing hole by hole is always more entertaining for spectators than strokeplay; except when it's very tight coming down the stretch, when the excitement can be equal.

[JJShanley]

The Dispatch Trophy at Braid Hills in Edinburgh followed such a format, Tony. It may still do. 4 player teams split into 2 pairs who play alternate shot against another team. I don't think I've encountered it elsewhere.

[Thomas Dai]

The original Dunhill Cup 3-man team medal-match comps at TOC with teams from various nations was a splendid event. Always a really good field. And unlike the current event no celebs and the like and no razzamatazzy sideshows either.
Atb

[Matt_Cohn]

Indeed. Cypress has hosted a college event this week that seems to have been foursomes and fourball matchplay followed by singles.

Yes exactly. Spectating this event for a day was not terrible.


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[Brian_Ewen]

I’d go easy on this.  Two of the three days were on Jubilee, with only the final day on TOC.  I’m not sure that all 8 teams even played the final day; it may have been only two men’s and two women’s teams.  It’s also worth remembering that these are public courses; elite, yes, but public.  I think if you take a look at the schedules of top US college teams, you’ll see that they play at some pretty decent private courses here.

I was referring to Foreigners.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I didn't speak to any of the players, but the parents I spoke to over the three days seemed thrilled that their kids had a chance to compete at St. Andrews.

If only Americas best courses were as accommodating   

I’d go easy on this.  Two of the three days were on Jubilee, with only the final day on TOC.  I’m not sure that all 8 teams even played the final day; it may have been only two men’s and two women’s teams.  It’s also worth remembering that these are public courses; elite, yes, but public.  I think if you take a look at the schedules of top US college teams, you’ll see that they play at some pretty decent private courses here.

A.G.,
Yes, all of the teams did play TOC on the final day.  The 3rd & 4th teams wen head-to-head with the earlier tee times.

[A.G._Crockett]

I didn't speak to any of the players, but the parents I spoke to over the three days seemed thrilled that their kids had a chance to compete at St. Andrews.

If only Americas best courses were as accommodating   

I’d go easy on this.  Two of the three days were on Jubilee, with only the final day on TOC.  I’m not sure that all 8 teams even played the final day; it may have been only two men’s and two women’s teams.  It’s also worth remembering that these are public courses; elite, yes, but public.  I think if you take a look at the schedules of top US college teams, you’ll see that they play at some pretty decent private courses here.

A.G.,
Yes, all of the teams did play TOC on the final day.  The 3rd & 4th teams wen head-to-head with the earlier tee times.

You’re correct, thanks!  I was only paying attention to the UNC women because a friend is in her first year as an assistant coach after her LPGA career. It makes sense that all teams would get the opportunity to play TOC, of course.


As to the format, I’d assume that the coaches preferred the hybrid stroke/match format because most of their competitions are stroke play; they are only likely to be in straight match play if they make to the championship rounds of the NCAA tournament.