Is there a more over-hyped event in golf than the Ryder Cup ….

[Jim Hoak]

I think Rob is right about interest and commitment.
But an even bigger issue may be the advantages that the home team has—crowd (obviously), course set-up, ease of practice, etc.  I believe that a visitor has only won a couple of times in the past 30 years.
If it continues like this, the event will become a meaningless exhibition—which maybe it should be.

[Ryan Van Culin]

I think the obvious solution is to make the losing team fly home commercial, economy class. Having to share a plane with the poors would certainly motivate them. 

[Cliff Hamm]

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/38551557/xander-schauffele-kicked-ryder-cup-team-contract-dispute-dad-says

Make it about money and the Americans win...

[Tim Martin]

Despite the honor of being selected as captain of the U.S. team if you get the nod for the away job it has to give one pause. Sacrificial Lamb comes to mind as they just don’t win in Europe.

[A.G._Crockett]

The bottom line is the Cup means a lot more to the Euros than it does to the American's.

I’m sure you can provide evidence for this claim. 


Given that there is a just three point difference between the two sides in the last 40+ years, and given that the US won by a record 19-9 margin in 2021, I look forward to seeing that evidence.

[Mark Pearce]

AG,


Couldn't agree more with your last two posts. 

[Sean_A]

Sean A,
You are probably right.
But the American players, Vice Captains & golf media need to stop moaning about the loss.  It is the obvious end result.

Carl

The US loss wasn't obvious to me until after 3pm London time. I don't think the final score reflects how close it was. I would not call this a blowout by any means.

Ciao

[David Cronan]

Watching the two teams throughout the years, this recently dawned on me:


The Euro teams resemble kids at camp;
The US teams look as though they are attending a summit.

[Tommy Williamsen]

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/38551557/xander-schauffele-kicked-ryder-cup-team-contract-dispute-dad-says

Make it about money and the Americans win...

I can't imagine my Dad ever doing this. I wonder if Xander knew what his Dad was going to say.

[Rob Marshall]

The bottom line is the Cup means a lot more to the Euros than it does to the American's.

I’m sure you can provide evidence for this claim. 


Given that there is a just three point difference between the two sides in the last 40+ years, and given that the US won by a record 19-9 margin in 2021, I look forward to seeing that evidence.

Do you hear any Euro's whining about getting paid? They hung one of Seve's old jersey's in the locker room. They play for all the players that have played before them. They don't ask to have their buddies as partners. They play with whoever the captain pairs them with.


This is not my original thought but one i heard on the radio. How many American players would go without playing tournament golf for 5 weeks BEFORE A MAJOR? Most of the American team didn't care enough to properly prepare............

[David Kelly]

Admittedly I haven't seen 20 shots played live cumulatively in the Ryder Cup since The War on the Shore in 1991 but I agree with everyone about the oversized role of the captains and their platoons of do-nothing vice captains.  The amount of pixels wasted on the buildup and hype of the event is staggering.  As Mike said, just throw up the balls or pick names from a hat and send them out.

[A.G._Crockett]

The bottom line is the Cup means a lot more to the Euros than it does to the American's.

I’m sure you can provide evidence for this claim. 


Given that there is a just three point difference between the two sides in the last 40+ years, and given that the US won by a record 19-9 margin in 2021, I look forward to seeing that evidence.

Do you hear any Euro's whining about getting paid? They hung one of Seve's old jersey's in the locker room. They play for all the players that have played before them. They don't ask to have their buddies as partners. They play with whoever the captain pairs them with.


This is not my original thought but one i heard on the radio. How many American players would go without playing tournament golf for 5 weeks BEFORE A MAJOR? Most of the American team didn't care enough to properly prepare............

I haven’t heard ANY players on either side “whining” about getting paid.  If you’re aware of reliable reports of this, please post a link.  Even Xander’s father/agent wasn’t talking about getting paid.


The rest of your first paragraph is pure speculation. You have NO idea, much less any kind of real proof, of how pairings are made on either side.  I’m guessing that captains on both sides try to pair guys who either have had success in the past, or seem like they would, for some reason(s) make good partners.  It’s guesswork.


The issue of preparation is more open to questions, if not compelling, but hardly proof that the American players don’t care as much as the Euro players.  I’ve heard the thing about “before a major” too, but it’s a false comparison; this was at the end of a long season, including the FedEx playoffs, which isn’t true about any of the majors.  They did go to Marco Simone for practice rounds, just as they had done in 2021; it worked then, it didn’t work this time.


The bottom line is that neither you nor I have any idea how much any player “cares”.  But I DO know that the work ethic and practice habits that allow someone to become an elite, world-class athlete in ANY sport aren’t on some kind of an on-off switch; it’s just who they are. 


So maybe you could just write the result off as the Euros playing better, plus home course advantage, instead of writing stuff about buddy systems and not caring and whining anbout money and all of that.  Because all of that deflects credit from the Euros, which is sort of a usual and unfortunate “ugly American” approach.

[Rob Marshall]

The bottom line is the Cup means a lot more to the Euros than it does to the American's.

I’m sure you can provide evidence for this claim. 


Given that there is a just three point difference between the two sides in the last 40+ years, and given that the US won by a record 19-9 margin in 2021, I look forward to seeing that evidence.

Do you hear any Euro's whining about getting paid? They hung one of Seve's old jersey's in the locker room. They play for all the players that have played before them. They don't ask to have their buddies as partners. They play with whoever the captain pairs them with.


This is not my original thought but one i heard on the radio. How many American players would go without playing tournament golf for 5 weeks BEFORE A MAJOR? Most of the American team didn't care enough to properly prepare............

I haven’t heard ANY players on either side “whining” about getting paid.  If you’re aware of reliable reports of this, please post a link.  Even Xander’s father/agent wasn’t talking about getting paid.


The rest of your first paragraph is pure speculation. You have NO idea, much less any kind of real proof, of how pairings are made on either side.  I’m guessing that captains on both sides try to pair guys who either have had success in the past, or seem like they would, for some reason(s) make good partners.  It’s guesswork.


The issue of preparation is more open to questions, if not compelling, but hardly proof that the American players don’t care as much as the Euro players.  I’ve heard the thing about “before a major” too, but it’s a false comparison; this was at the end of a long season, including the FedEx playoffs, which isn’t true about any of the majors.  They did go to Marco Simone for practice rounds, just as they had done in 2021; it worked then, it didn’t work this time.


The bottom line is that neither you nor I have any idea how much any player “cares”.  But I DO know that the work ethic and practice habits that allow someone to become an elite, world-class athlete in ANY sport aren’t on some kind of an on-off switch; it’s just who they are. 


So maybe you could just write the result off as the Euros playing better, plus home course advantage, instead of writing stuff about buddy systems and not caring and whining anbout money and all of that.  Because all of that deflects credit from the Euros, which is sort of a usual and unfortunate “ugly American” approach.

AG,
Ugly American approach?  I wanted the Euros to win. They did play better. That’s why they won. The question is why they played better?

https://www.si.com/golf/news/us-players-want-compensation-competing-ryder-cup-they-may-have-point

“Johnson also revealed that Thomas’ selection came after consulting with his automatic qualifiers about who they wanted on the team — which will do nothing to dispel the ‘Boys Club’ image.”

Pretty sure you said Xanders father wasn’t talking about getting paid……. “

The older Schauffele joked that Cantlay was not wearing a cap as way to avoid unsightly tan lines in advance of his Monday wedding in Rome. But he told Sports Illustrated that, yeah, the players should be paid. “

[A.G._Crockett]

Rob, you should read your own link!  That is Xanders’s FATHER talking; YOU said American PLAYERS were “whining” about money, which is just patently, 100% NOT true.


As to the Thomas pick, I’m SURE you would have done better. Zach Johnson picked two guys who had gone 7-1 together in the previous two Ryder Cups and the most recent Presidents Cup.  Did they play that well this time? Nope, but that’s just the way it goes.  If you’re a captain and you DO NOT pick two guys with a half dozen or so majors and that match play record, what exactly are you thinking?


And I’ll say it again: As long as you insist on blaming whining, not caring enough, poor captain’s picks, and whatever else, you detract from what the Euros did, which was to play great golf. 


When Matt Fitzpatrick made 75’ of putts on the 5 holes of the Friday four ball, leading even his partner McIlroy to just laugh and applaud, on the way to a 5 and 3 win, that was beautiful to watch.  It wasn’t because of whining or not caring or captain’s picks; it was just great golf. 


I suggest that you quit detracting from that.  It’s NOT a good look.

[Rob Marshall]

Rob, you should read your own link!  That is Xanders’s FATHER talking; YOU said American PLAYERS were “whining” about money, which is just patently, 100% NOT true.


As to the Thomas pick, I’m SURE you would have done better. Zach Johnson picked two guys who had gone 7-1 together in the previous two Ryder Cups and the most recent Presidents Cup.  Did they play that well this time? Nope, but that’s just the way it goes.  If you’re a captain and you DO NOT pick two guys with a half dozen or so majors and that match play record, what exactly are you thinking?


And I’ll say it again: As long as you insist on blaming whining, not caring enough, poor captain’s picks, and whatever else, you detract from what the Euros did, which was to play great golf. 


When Matt Fitzpatrick made 75’ of putts on the 5 holes of the Friday four ball, leading even his partner McIlroy to just laugh and applaud, on the way to a 5 and 3 win, that was beautiful to watch.  It wasn’t because of whining or not caring or captain’s picks; it was just great golf. 


I suggest that you quit detracting from that.  It’s NOT a good look.

AG, perhaps you should read your post. You said is father/agent said nothing about getting paid. He told SI players should get paid. I’m sure you hadn’t read the article, which is why I posted it. His agent thinks he should be paid. I agree that doesn’t mean Xander feels the same.


“Even Xander’s father/agent wasn’t talking about getting paid.”


I also never said the Euros didn’t play great golf. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

[A.G._Crockett]

Rob, you should read your own link!  That is Xanders’s FATHER talking; YOU said American PLAYERS were “whining” about money, which is just patently, 100% NOT true.


As to the Thomas pick, I’m SURE you would have done better. Zach Johnson picked two guys who had gone 7-1 together in the previous two Ryder Cups and the most recent Presidents Cup.  Did they play that well this time? Nope, but that’s just the way it goes.  If you’re a captain and you DO NOT pick two guys with a half dozen or so majors and that match play record, what exactly are you thinking?


And I’ll say it again: As long as you insist on blaming whining, not caring enough, poor captain’s picks, and whatever else, you detract from what the Euros did, which was to play great golf. 


When Matt Fitzpatrick made 75’ of putts on the 5 holes of the Friday four ball, leading even his partner McIlroy to just laugh and applaud, on the way to a 5 and 3 win, that was beautiful to watch.  It wasn’t because of whining or not caring or captain’s picks; it was just great golf. 


I suggest that you quit detracting from that.  It’s NOT a good look.

AG, perhaps you should read your post. You said is father/agent said nothing about getting paid. He told SI players should get paid. I’m sure you hadn’t read the article, which is why I posted it. His agent thinks he should be paid. I agree that doesn’t mean Xander feels the same.


“Even Xander’s father/agent wasn’t talking about getting paid.”


I also never said the Euros didn’t play great golf. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Rob, this is hopeless, so this will be my last post on yet another non-GCA train wreck of a thread.


When you blame the American performance, and therefore the result of the competition, on (using YOUR words!) whining, preparation, captain’s picks, and simply not caring, you diminish the achievement of the opponent.  You can’t have it both ways, and you REALLY ought to know that.


I coached nearly 1000 HS basketball games, and among MANY other things, I learned that sometimes you just lose. No matter how well you play, you just get beat. You don’t make excuses, you don’t look for someone to blame; you just shake hands, go home, and then go back to work.  The Euros whipped the Americans; it happens.

[Rob Marshall]

Rob, you should read your own link!  That is Xanders’s FATHER talking; YOU said American PLAYERS were “whining” about money, which is just patently, 100% NOT true.


As to the Thomas pick, I’m SURE you would have done better. Zach Johnson picked two guys who had gone 7-1 together in the previous two Ryder Cups and the most recent Presidents Cup.  Did they play that well this time? Nope, but that’s just the way it goes.  If you’re a captain and you DO NOT pick two guys with a half dozen or so majors and that match play record, what exactly are you thinking?


And I’ll say it again: As long as you insist on blaming whining, not caring enough, poor captain’s picks, and whatever else, you detract from what the Euros did, which was to play great golf. 


When Matt Fitzpatrick made 75’ of putts on the 5 holes of the Friday four ball, leading even his partner McIlroy to just laugh and applaud, on the way to a 5 and 3 win, that was beautiful to watch.  It wasn’t because of whining or not caring or captain’s picks; it was just great golf. 


I suggest that you quit detracting from that.  It’s NOT a good look.

AG, perhaps you should read your post. You said is father/agent said nothing about getting paid. He told SI players should get paid. I’m sure you hadn’t read the article, which is why I posted it. His agent thinks he should be paid. I agree that doesn’t mean Xander feels the same.


“Even Xander’s father/agent wasn’t talking about getting paid.”


I also never said the Euros didn’t play great golf. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Rob, this is hopeless, so this will be my last post on yet another non-GCA train wreck of a thread.


When you blame the American performance, and therefore the result of the competition, on (using YOUR words!) whining, preparation, captain’s picks, and simply not caring, you diminish the achievement of the opponent.  You can’t have it both ways, and you REALLY ought to know that.


I coached nearly 1000 HS basketball games, and among MANY other things, I learned that sometimes you just lose. No matter how well you play, you just get beat. You don’t make excuses, you don’t look for someone to blame; you just shake hands, go home, and then go back to work.  The Euros whipped the Americans; it happens.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cx6IaYTNeVJ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==


They did, they played great which I’ve said 1000 times. I rooted FOR them. Take the time to listen to Justin. He’s played in a few cups.


BTW, anyone who has coached a high school sport has my highest respect. Love high school hoops.

[William_G]

I hope team USA never wins again LOL
bunch of mostly entitled multi-millionaire chumps

[Jim Hoak]

I don't think this is being an Ugly American--but, as to the facts on the relative importance of the Ryder Cup to Americans and Europeans, the TV ratings came out today.  Viewers in the US were roughly half of what they were in the prior Cup held in Europe; the number of viewers in Europe were a record.
The Ryder Cup is broken--and I believe it goes beyond the relative play of the respective teams.  The Europeans were clearly the better team this year--but as been said on here, the important question is, why?  I believe it is more than being better players.
Personally, I think the question is why the home field advantage has become so large that it destroys the competitiveness of the event.  I heard one commentator in the US say the home field advantage in the Ryder Cup is greater than in any other sporting event anywhere.

[John Kirk]

I don't think this is being an Ugly American--but, as to the facts on the relative importance of the Ryder Cup to Americans and Europeans, the TV ratings came out today.  Viewers in the US were roughly half of what they were in the prior Cup held in Europe; the number of viewers in Europe were a record.
The Ryder Cup is broken--and I believe it goes beyond the relative play of the respective teams.  The Europeans were clearly the better team this year--but as been said on here, the important question is, why?  I believe it is more than being better players.
Personally, I think the question is why the home field advantage has become so large that it destroys the competitiveness of the event.  I heard one commentator in the US say the home field advantage in the Ryder Cup is greater than in any other sporting event anywhere.

Hi Jim,

Your comments give me a chance to say something reasonably apolitical about this.

Perhaps the profound home court advantage in golf has to do with the intimate and quiet nature of the game.  Since the Ryder Cup began to attract increasingly partisan and rude spectators, it has become nearly impossible for the visiting team to perform at their best.  Perhaps the player's experience of making his way around the course, experiencing all the heckling, teasing, and hatred day after day, makes it impossible to perform at the highest level.  Likewise, to feel the outpouring of support from home town fans has the opposite effect for the home team.  Golfers play without a helmet and are not separated from the audience like other major sports.  In this sport where quiet concentration is of the utmost importance, engagement with the athletes must be polite and respectful.

I can't imagine what it's like to feel that hatred and disrespect all day long.  It's bound to get you down.  Maybe it's OK in some cultures to be so damn partisan about everything.  I just want to see a good game, where the participants are respectfully encouraged to do their best.

[A.G._Crockett]

I don't think this is being an Ugly American--but, as to the facts on the relative importance of the Ryder Cup to Americans and Europeans, the TV ratings came out today.  Viewers in the US were roughly half of what they were in the prior Cup held in Europe; the number of viewers in Europe were a record.

Don’t underestimate the impact of no Tiger Woods on US TV ratings.  I think Tiger has pretty consistently provided a 30-35% bump in the ratings over the years.  At least for Saturday, that basically equals the difference from this year vs 2018.  The Sunday viewership in the US, for whatever reason(s) was much, much lower.

[John Kavanaugh]

I got out of bed to learn we were down 0-4. Found something better to do. The winning team stays for a slaughter.

[Charlie Goerges]

Maybe the cup should be played in a neutral location. No home games.

[A.G._Crockett]

I don't think this is being an Ugly American--but, as to the facts on the relative importance of the Ryder Cup to Americans and Europeans, the TV ratings came out today.  Viewers in the US were roughly half of what they were in the prior Cup held in Europe; the number of viewers in Europe were a record.
The Ryder Cup is broken--and I believe it goes beyond the relative play of the respective teams.  The Europeans were clearly the better team this year--but as been said on here, the important question is, why?  I believe it is more than being better players.
Personally, I think the question is why the home field advantage has become so large that it destroys the competitiveness of the event.  I heard one commentator in the US say the home field advantage in the Ryder Cup is greater than in any other sporting event anywhere.

Hi Jim,

Your comments give me a chance to say something reasonably apolitical about this.

Perhaps the profound home court advantage in golf has to do with the intimate and quiet nature of the game.  Since the Ryder Cup began to attract increasingly partisan and rude spectators, it has become nearly impossible for the visiting team to perform at their best.  Perhaps the player's experience of making his way around the course, experiencing all the heckling, teasing, and hatred day after day, makes it impossible to perform at the highest level.  Likewise, to feel the outpouring of support from home town fans has the opposite effect for the home team.  Golfers play without a helmet and are not separated from the audience like other major sports.  In this sport where quiet concentration is of the utmost importance, engagement with the athletes must be polite and respectful.

I can't imagine what it's like to feel that hatred and disrespect all day long.  It's bound to get you down.  Maybe it's OK in some cultures to be so damn partisan about everything.  I just want to see a good game, where the participants are respectfully encouraged to do their best.

I think you’re correct about this as the best explanation of the home course advantage, with course setup and familiarity a distant second and third.


Home field is HUGE in all sports, but the partisanship of the crowd at the Ryder Cup is a complete one-off in golf.  There’s no way to practice for it like football and basketball teams do with crowd noise over the PA, much less to be at least somewhat used to it just by virtue of playing half your games in hostile environments.


None of that is a judgment about Ryder Cup crowds here or in Europe.  It’s just the nature of this one particular competition, and it has to skew the results at least somewhat.  Which is ok; the overall competition since 1979 is incredibly close.

[Kalen Braley]

I did a deeper dive on past Ryder Cup results to see what trends are there.

Given the matches started to be competitive on a regular basis in 1983, I started there. A few observations based on the last 20 Cups:

- Europe has won 65% of the time (13/20) or in general they win 2 of every 3.
- Half of the time, the Cup is decided by 2 points or less and each team has equal amount of wins (5 each)
- The visiting team has won 25% of the time (4 by the Europeans, 1 for the US), which would seem to indicate the Europeans handle the adverse conditions better.
- Europe has won 6 times by margins of five points or greater, the US 3.

As half of the match results were close (2 points or less), while home field advantage is real, many of those could have easily ended up differently.