OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Wonder if the R & A would ever consider having the Open over two courses for the first two days.


Double the field- More income.



Old Course & New Course
St Georges & Princes
Birkdale & Hillside
Dunluce & other one forget its name
Troon & Prestwick (or Portland)
Carnoustie & Burnside.


Lytham, Hoylake don't tick the box. Turnberry probably does not. Muirfield could duel with Gullane??


Remember they started doing this with the Amateur championship..

So for an extra two days.
Double the no of grandstands?
TWO TENTED VILLAGES?
Logistical probles of getting 2X fans in and out?


Yep I'm sure they've run the calculator over this and if they keep jacking the price up, it may yet happen. 

However of your examples only Princes and Hillside are long enough for the 'flat bellies'.  But they seem willing to do "work" on the Old Course(and its immediate neighbours), so why not the others?

I dont think you would need extra grandstands and certainly no tented village, St Andrews or St Georges is prime for a Super Open. Could easily add £10,000,000 back into the pot/grow the game/help at grass roots/help at the tours below DPworld.
Only problem is logistics, the tickets all get sold out so no problem getting the crowds, lots of space at RSG/Princes- St Andrews New/jub combo could prob be done.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Where two courses share a boundary (like St Andrews or Princes and RSG… Or Portmarnock and the Hotel course for that matter), I could see it almost working with some things shared like perimeter security, tented village, flow of spectators etc… but I can’t see how they could get away without significant extra cost on grandstands, TV infrastructure, parking etc…


Unless they reduced the attendance numbers which would kind of defeat the purpose?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Where two courses share a boundary (like St Andrews or Princes and RSG… Or Portmarnock and the Hotel course for that matter), I could see it almost working with some things shared like perimeter security, tented village, flow of spectators etc… but I can’t see how they could get away without significant extra cost on grandstands, TV infrastructure, parking etc…


Unless they reduced the attendance numbers which would kind of defeat the purpose?

Don't really need extra grandstands, the stands are only for a few thousand outside the 18th, the main event 3 of the 4 rounds is still on the big one, will be a bit more cost for TV, parking would be the problem to solve but you just park further away and bus them in. Could be good to have a Super Open, even if only for TOC. Field could go to 312, all ex champions, much more spots for qualifiers and more of the 'old romantic feeling' the Open had. Regional Q has become something some good players don't even try now because of the few spots. I am sure you are right though and there must be logistical reasons why not to do it. From St Andrews point of view it would elevate the 'want' for people to play the New and Jubilee, so long term commercial benefit.

[JohnVDB]

No aged champions, no amateurs who had a good day or two… etc.

Just 20 club pros who rarely make the cut, in spite of this year.

[Thomas Dai]

Where two courses share a boundary (like St Andrews or Princes and RSG… Or Portmarnock and the Hotel course for that matter), I could see it almost working with some things shared like perimeter security, tented village, flow of spectators etc… but I can’t see how they could get away without significant extra cost on grandstands, TV infrastructure, parking etc…
Unless they reduced the attendance numbers which would kind of defeat the purpose?

Don't really need extra grandstands, the stands are only for a few thousand outside the 18th, the main event 3 of the 4 rounds is still on the big one, will be a bit more cost for TV, parking would be the problem to solve but you just park further away and bus them in. Could be good to have a Super Open, even if only for TOC. Field could go to 312, all ex champions, much more spots for qualifiers and more of the 'old romantic feeling' the Open had. Regional Q has become something some good players don't even try now because of the few spots. I am sure you are right though and there must be logistical reasons why not to do it. From St Andrews point of view it would elevate the 'want' for people to play the New and Jubilee, so long term commercial benefit.

I’ve always thought an Open at St Andrews or some other big, special event there, could play the 1st, 16th, 17th and 18th on TOC with the remaining holes comprising the best holes from the New, Eden and Jubilee. If possible routing wise maybe include the 11th and 14th on TOC as well. It wouldn’t even be necessary to play the non-TOC holes from their usual tees.
Most viewers on TV probably wouldn’t notice the difference to the normal routing and some attending probably won’t realise either. It would certainly be different and ought to allow more spectators on site too.
Be nice to see it happen but I’m not holding my breath it will.
Atb

[Marty Bonnar]

Getting in and out of St Andrews is horrendous even at the best of times. Single-lane roads. There’s no dual-carriageway within about ten miles. The nearest rail station is, of course, Leuchars about five miles away. Parking is hellish. If you’re lucky enough to have access to a private jet or helicopter you can land at the old RAF Base (now an Army camp). Accommodation is VERY limited - and stupidly expensive.
Oh, and the golf course is now an utter irrelevance to any kind of elite golf as recently illustrated by the Walker Cup.
Really, why bother?
 
F.

[Jeff Schley]

Oh, and the golf course is now an utter irrelevance to any kind of elite golf as recently illustrated by the Walker Cup.
Really, why bother?
 
F.

Marty so u really believe that?  Didn't we have one of the all time great open finishes just a year ago with Cam Smith winning an ultra exciting finish?


Do we really care what the winning score is? If the weather picks up u have higher scores, if not u have lower scores.  Pretty weather dependent at most open venues.

[Thomas Dai]

Not sure if it's been mentioned above but the 2024 British Amateur Championship, aka The Amateur Championship, is to be played at ....... Ballyliffin, which is in the Republic of Ireland.
Note that this championship has previously been played in the RoI at Portmarnock in 1949 and 2019.

atb

[Erik J. Barzeski]

No aged champions, no amateurs who had a good day or two… etc.

Just 20 club pros who rarely make the cut, in spite of this year.

Yes, and 136 (I think) well qualified Tour players.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Not sure if it's been mentioned above but the 2024 British Amateur Championship, aka The Amateur Championship, is to be played at ....... Ballyliffin, which is in the Republic of Ireland.
Note that this championship has previously been played in the RoI at Portmarnock in 1949 and 2019.

atb

This for me was an amazing coup; not the fact that Ballyliffin is outside the UK; but that they gave the Amateur to such a new course outside the UK.


The Amateur has arguably the best list of host courses of any tournament / championship anywhere: Not a weak one among them, all with design pedigree and all with a long history.

[Thomas Dai]

Not sure if it's been mentioned above but the 2024 British Amateur Championship, aka The Amateur Championship, is to be played at ....... Ballyliffin, which is in the Republic of Ireland.
Note that this championship has previously been played in the RoI at Portmarnock in 1949 and 2019.
atb

This for me was an amazing coup; not the fact that Ballyliffin is outside the UK; but that they gave the Amateur to such a new course outside the UK.
The Amateur has arguably the best list of host courses of any tournament / championship anywhere: Not a weak one among them, all with design pedigree and all with a long history.

Qualifying on the delightful ‘humps and hollows’ Old, Championship play on the newer ‘made by big machines’ Glashedy.
Be nice if it were the other way round but I guess TV camera views will be more spectacular if play is on the Glashedy. TV first, golf second at an amateur event seems rather sad.
Atb

[David_Tepper]

Recent article ("R&A keen to explore"):

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/67027603

[JohnVDB]

No aged champions, no amateurs who had a good day or two… etc.

Just 20 club pros who rarely make the cut, in spite of this year.

Yes, and 136 (I think) well qualified Tour players.

Past champions have a lifetime exemption to the PGA. Some of them are not really that qualified anymore.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Past champions have a lifetime exemption to the PGA. Some of them are not really that qualified anymore.

The fact remains that the PGA has the strongest field of the four majors.

[Niall C]

Erik


Is it a fact ?


Niall

[Mark Pearce]

Erik


Is it a fact ?


Niall

Eric says it is.  So it must be.

[Niall C]

ah yes, there is that.


Niall

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Is it a fact ?

Yep.

https://www.owgr.com/events-to-date

PGA: 463
Players: 434
British: 433
U.S. Open: 422
…
…
…
Masters: 335

[Bill Gayne]

It's a fact but help me understand why it's a relevant fact? OWGR ranking for majors is a reflection of the number of players at the low end of the field. The top end of the field is the same for all four majors and the Players.

[Sean_A]

Is it a fact ?

Yep.

https://www.owgr.com/events-to-date

PGA: 463
Players: 434
British: 433
U.S. Open: 422
…
…
…
Masters: 335

Thats not a fact because the data is based on a subjective set of weighted criteria. Anyone could devise a different set of criteria which could yield different results. Saying the PGA is the strongest field is akin to saying Pine Valley is the best golf course because a ranking panel crunched the numbers and that is the result.

Ciao

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Thats not a fact because the data is based on a subjective set of weighted criteria.

Your dictionary has a wrong definition of "subjective."

[Thomas Dai]

The Irish Govt have in the last few days been making statements about positively supporting The Open being held at Portmarnock.
Magnificent course without any doubt but it would be rather disapointing if somewhere outside GB&NI held it before it was held in the one part of GB&NI that’s never held it …. ie Wales!
There might even be a covert protest and one morning R&A officials will wake up to thousands of daffodils in full bloom covering every green of the Old Course.
No vested interest though!!!!
Atb

[Simon Barrington]

Past champions have a lifetime exemption to the PGA. Some of them are not really that qualified anymore.

The fact remains that the PGA has the strongest field of the four majors.

As a numbers guy you have to acknowledge that the OGWR is skewed towards those with PGA Tour Membership, so the resulting analysis is meaningless.

[David_Tepper]

"As a numbers guy you have to acknowledge that the OGWR is skewed towards those with PGA Tour Membership, so the resulting analysis is meaningless."

Simon -

Yes, the OGWR is skewed to the data from the PGA Tour, but that hardly renders the results "meaningless."

DT

[David_Tepper]

Speaking of which, 11 of the 25 players ranked #1 in the history of the OWGR have been non-PGA Tour players for a good portion of their careers.

Langer-Ballesteros-Norman-Faldo-Woosnam-Westwood-Kaymer-Donaldson-McIlroy-Rose-Rahm

The only two players to reach #1 without winning a major were Euros Westwood and Donald.