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Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2023, 01:27:14 AM »
Peter, I'm not sure 'COVID' drove those 24,000 people away.  I'd chalk it up to your Governor's 'reaction to COVID' on top of already oppressive costs of living in California.  Texas and Florida has COVID too...


Bingo, that’s why people are fleeing NYS also. Californian’s are showing up in Florida in droves. All over Naples.
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have. They will fit right in and won't be missed. That must be why the moronic governors of those states are shipping immigrants to CA to even things out. ::)
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2023, 03:42:58 AM »
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have.

Hey now... I grew up in Texas, and it's plenty nice. I live in California now, and it's also plenty nice. Both places have problems, both places have great things about them.

Great golf in both places for sure! I don't think anyone could disagree with that  :)

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2023, 04:31:04 AM »
Peter, I'm not sure 'COVID' drove those 24,000 people away.  I'd chalk it up to your Governor's 'reaction to COVID' on top of already oppressive costs of living in California.  Texas and Florida has COVID too...


Bingo, that’s why people are fleeing NYS also. Californian’s are showing up in Florida in droves. All over Naples.
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have. They will fit right in and won't be missed. That must be why the moronic governors of those states are shipping immigrants to CA to even things out. ::)


What makes them stupid? What do you do for living?

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2023, 08:40:08 PM »
Peter, I'm not sure 'COVID' drove those 24,000 people away.  I'd chalk it up to your Governor's 'reaction to COVID' on top of already oppressive costs of living in California.  Texas and Florida has COVID too...


Bingo, that’s why people are fleeing NYS also. Californian’s are showing up in Florida in droves. All over Naples.
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have. They will fit right in and won't be missed. That must be why the moronic governors of those states are shipping immigrants to CA to even things out. ::)


What makes them stupid? What do you do for living?


 It would be great if we could respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if we disagree with it. That needs to start at the top. We can all hope anyway.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2023, 09:01:50 PM »
With respect to all, I don’t think a single one of us has a clue about what the real world is. We are among the luckiest people who have ever lived. I sometimes need that reminder.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2023, 09:59:39 PM »
With respect to all, I don’t think a single one of us has a clue about what the real world is. We are among the luckiest people who have ever lived. I sometimes need that reminder.


The joy that is derived from such a condition is what compels us to wish everyone could feel so lucky.

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2023, 01:01:30 AM »
Peter, I'm not sure 'COVID' drove those 24,000 people away.  I'd chalk it up to your Governor's 'reaction to COVID' on top of already oppressive costs of living in California.  Texas and Florida has COVID too...


Bingo, that’s why people are fleeing NYS also. Californian’s are showing up in Florida in droves. All over Naples.
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have. They will fit right in and won't be missed. That must be why the moronic governors of those states are shipping immigrants to CA to even things out. ::)


What makes them stupid? What do you do for living?


 It would be great if we could respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if we disagree with it. That needs to start at the top. We can all hope anyway.


Asking questions doesn't mean I don't respect someone's opinion. I find it very curious when people say outrageous things then don't explain them. Calling people stupid for leaving CA begs many questions.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2023, 05:44:32 AM »
With respect to all, I don’t think a single one of us has a clue about what the real world is. We are among the luckiest people who have ever lived. I sometimes need that reminder.


The joy that is derived from such a condition is what compels us to wish everyone could feel so lucky.


JK, among the many epic trolls you've posted here, that one is classic.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2023, 07:28:35 AM »
Peter, I'm not sure 'COVID' drove those 24,000 people away.  I'd chalk it up to your Governor's 'reaction to COVID' on top of already oppressive costs of living in California.  Texas and Florida has COVID too...


Bingo, that’s why people are fleeing NYS also. Californian’s are showing up in Florida in droves. All over Naples.
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have. They will fit right in and won't be missed. That must be why the moronic governors of those states are shipping immigrants to CA to even things out. ::)


What makes them stupid? What do you do for living?


 It would be great if we could respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if we disagree with it. That needs to start at the top. We can all hope anyway.


Asking questions doesn't mean I don't respect someone's opinion. I find it very curious when people say outrageous things then don't explain them. Calling people stupid for leaving CA begs many questions.


Mike, I was referring to Tim not you. Just because you live in a state doesn’t mean you agree with its leaders. There are a lot of great people who live in Florida and Texas.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 07:34:51 AM by Rob Marshall »
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2023, 10:09:44 AM »
Peter, I'm not sure 'COVID' drove those 24,000 people away.  I'd chalk it up to your Governor's 'reaction to COVID' on top of already oppressive costs of living in California.  Texas and Florida has COVID too...


Bingo, that’s why people are fleeing NYS also. Californian’s are showing up in Florida in droves. All over Naples.
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have. They will fit right in and won't be missed. That must be why the moronic governors of those states are shipping immigrants to CA to even things out. ::)


What makes them stupid? What do you do for living?


 It would be great if we could respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if we disagree with it. That needs to start at the top. We can all hope anyway.


Asking questions doesn't mean I don't respect someone's opinion. I find it very curious when people say outrageous things then don't explain them. Calling people stupid for leaving CA begs many questions.


Mike, I was referring to Tim not you. Just because you live in a state doesn’t mean you agree with its leaders. There are a lot of great people who live in Florida and Texas.


Kinda figured. Yes, tons of great people everywhere .. even in CA .. despite the management.

David Cronan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2023, 10:15:47 AM »
Peter, I'm not sure 'COVID' drove those 24,000 people away.  I'd chalk it up to your Governor's 'reaction to COVID' on top of already oppressive costs of living in California.  Texas and Florida has COVID too...


Bingo, that’s why people are fleeing NYS also. Californian’s are showing up in Florida in droves. All over Naples.
Anyone stupid enough to leave CA for FL or TX they can have. They will fit right in and won't be missed. That must be why the moronic governors of those states are shipping immigrants to CA to even things out. ::)


What makes them stupid? What do you do for living?


 It would be great if we could respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if we disagree with it. That needs to start at the top. We can all hope anyway.


Asking questions doesn't mean I don't respect someone's opinion. I find it very curious when people say outrageous things then don't explain them. Calling people stupid for leaving CA begs many questions.


Mike, I was referring to Tim not you. Just because you live in a state doesn’t mean you agree with its leaders. There are a lot of great people who live in Florida and Texas.


Kinda figured. Yes, tons of great people everywhere .. even in CA .. despite the management.


And I, too, can attest that there are tons of great people everywhere.. even in Florida…despite the management.

peter_mcknight

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2023, 01:49:55 PM »
To clarify...
PIT--personal income tax.
CEQA--California Environmental Quality Act (1970).  Don't get me started about our current legislative session in RE CEQA.

AB 8--1979, implemented Prop 13.  In short, redistributed tax dollars away from Orange County and San Diego County and towards Los Angeles County and Alameda County (to name four specific counties), then fixed the redistribution in perpetuity.

ZPG--zero population growth.  Replacement is 2.10; we're at 1.55 at present.  Worst in the world is the Korea Republic at 0.78.
As an FYI, I was a legislative staffer in Sacramento in the 1990s.  I wrote my master's thesis on Prop 4 from 1979.
In absence of COVID, I don't believe we lose 24,000 of our top 1% personal income taxpayers.  We would have had the normal bleed we have experienced over the last decade plus occurring instead.  I do believe we were going to lose some of the top 170,000 during COVID regardless.  Yes, the state's response caused more to leave than that seen historically.  With that said, we do have a rather unique challenge in that there is a zero tax state right next door (and much lower cost of living) and, if you're the 1% and from the Bay Area, you can live in quite the level of comfort in Incline Village and still work in/for the Bay Area.
And, yes, once you purchase a house/commercial property, there is the inequity of having to pay top dollar in property tax.  However, one does appreciate having Prop 13 afterwards.  I know this for a fact because, when I moved to my current residence, I had four of my neighbours fully Prop 13 protected from 1978.  Now, there's only one remaining.

At the end of the day, I should have never posted a response to this thread.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2023, 02:47:37 PM »
And, yes, once you purchase a house/commercial property, there is the inequity of having to pay top dollar in property tax.  However, one does appreciate having Prop 13 afterwards.

I just want to supplement this, and am definitely not trying to quibble, as everything you said is quite helpful for others understanding the complex issues here. I just to clarify to others why the folks like us might not see eye to eye, even while the benefits you point out seem (and mostly are) perfectly reasonable.

I don't think folks like myself would be throwing such a fit about the levels of inequality that you mention, if it weren't for the issue of perpetuity. The law creates these property tax exemptions effectively in perpetuity, for families via heritability (this is why i remark that we are talking about a literal aristocracy), and obviously for corporations of infinite lifespans. The effects of this on property development, zoning, and access to housing cannot be understated.

Some of the heritability issues were mildly curtailed via Prop 19 in 2020 (in fact, Prop 13 is really starting to show signs of strain in the last decade). However, we still live under a tax regime where children born from different families will pay different tax rates based solely on who their parents are, which generally requires some mental gymnastics to justify, and while it has been challenged and sustained under the argument of the Equal Protection Clause, I would honestly like to see challenged as an de facto form of unconstitutional title of nobility (ArtI.S9.C8.1).

Unfortunately, stuck in the middle of this political quagmire are golf courses, as has been discussed here at length.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 06:43:16 PM by Matt Schoolfield »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2023, 07:22:51 PM »
Get ‘‘em Gib.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT- Wanna Buy A House in Pebble Beach?
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2023, 08:21:54 PM »
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett