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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Superfluous Design
« on: July 27, 2023, 11:56:03 AM »
My home club has two Cupp/Kite 18’s that are significantly over shaped - containment mounding primarily, and over-bunkered.  Abundant movement on the putting surfaces as well.  I enjoy both immensely. 


Does superfluous architecture diminish your playing experience as general rule? 


Is it generally interesting/fun or a total turnoff?
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Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2023, 01:57:51 PM »
Isn't virtually all architecture superfluous?

You could build a 400 yard pool table of a hole and the majority of players would struggle to complete the hole within 4 strokes.

Everything else beyond that is just to provide visual or playable interest.

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2023, 01:59:49 PM »
This will turn on one's definition of superfluous. 

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2023, 02:30:10 PM »
I think it's style preferences. I think one persons superfluous is another persons intricate. There is minimalist design, and maximalist design. Minimalist, functional golf course are totally fine for my tastes, but that doesn't mean that I couldn't enjoy something a bit over-the-top from time to time.

A couple examples: I've played at Lawsonia a couple of times now (I recently learned that I just love Wisconsin and went twice in a year), and I think that course is a good example of maximalist design. I think another example is the South Course at Corica, which I very much enjoyed, except when I was in the patch of the course along the oakland airport, and suddenly the shaping all seemed hyper surreal. I looked out through the fence at the pseudo-natural flat shape of the landfill that made the island juxtaposed with the hyper-detailed shaping of Rees Jones, and felt like only when put next to the airport did the shaping seem over-the-top.

On the minimalist front, I'd point to some of the better holes at Sharp Park in Pacifica. I think the opener there is fantastic, even if it's a bit of a gentle handshake. A single bunker and a single stream forces the player into a series of tough decision if they want to aim for the ideal right side of the fairway, while also playing pretty simply with the less ideal center route, and having a very tough, but not impossible, shot if they player accidentally chooses the left side. One bunker, one stream, one mound in the fairway, almost zero elevation change, which all together makes a pretty solid golf hole.
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Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2023, 08:55:05 PM »
I don’t know if this is what you’re asking, but I’d probably rather play an over-shaped course than a flat football field of a course. Taking over-shaped to mean poorly done and not very strategic. I guess it might be a guilty pleasure. I just prefer contour to flat and boring. Now that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t prefer a generally flat course with relatively little, but thoughtful shaping/contour.
Don’t know if that makes sense.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design New
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2023, 03:11:33 AM »
My home club has two Cupp/Kite 18’s that are significantly over shaped - containment mounding primarily, and over-bunkered.  Abundant movement on the putting surfaces as well.  I enjoy both immensely. 


Does superfluous architecture diminish your playing experience as general rule? 

Is it generally interesting/fun or a total turnoff?

So far as true containment mounding, trees and bunkers go, superfluous is almost always a turnoff.

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« Last Edit: July 30, 2023, 03:17:11 AM by Sean_A »
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Mike Worth

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2023, 03:32:34 AM »
This will turn on one's definition of superfluous.


Maybe gratuitous is a better word. Done without good reason.

Enno Gerdes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2023, 05:35:34 AM »
My club had (pre-renovation) two instances of bunkers right in front of water hazards. These bunkers existed mainly to prevent a bad tee shot from going into the water. So the bunkers weren’t actually hazards, but lifelines. They were superfluous, and were removed during the renovation.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superfluous Design
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2023, 12:14:21 PM »
Isn't virtually all architecture superfluous?

You could build a 400 yard pool table of a hole and the majority of players would struggle to complete the hole within 4 strokes.

Everything else beyond that is just to provide visual or playable interest.
No
Tim Weiman

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