Bunker raking angle and design.

[Matt Schoolfield]

My understanding is, the bunkers were raked flat, the pros predictably moan, so now they are raking them concave so the ball is less likely to be up against the sod.

I've never really thought about this before. With pot bunkers or standard, is this a measured or intentional thing? Are bunkers designed with sand angles/design in mind? Or is it just an after-thought?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Donald Ross wrote or was quoted as saying the outer few feet of a sand bunker should slope sharply to direct the ball away from an unplayable lip, so the idea isn't new.  As per usual, average players seem to accept a bad like under a lip as rub of the green, while good players will inevitably scream, "I've got NO SHOT!"

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:


What you seem to be talking about is what we would call the floor of the bunker.


Yes, the floor is part of the design.  Some are intended to be flat . . . Macdonald and Rayner put cinders on the floors of their bunkers, and when we dig them up to rebuild the bunker now, we can see they were built flat.  MacKenzie and George Thomas and others went for a more concave shape, although in general I believe the outside edges and lips are now higher and therefore the faces are steeper than they were when they were built.  [It's hard to tell from digging them up, if there isn't a heavier soil underneath.]


Many bunkers that started flat wind up edging the bunker higher and adding a bit of upslope at the edges of the floor, to prevent difficult lies.  Nearly all pot bunkers have a bit of slope there, so you aren't right up against the wall.


The nastiest thing you can possibly do is shape the floor so you have a slightly downhill lie as you play toward the green.  Jack Nicklaus did that at Muirfield Village for a little while . . . I only know that because I heard the players complaining about it in private.

[Matt Schoolfield]

Jack Nicklaus did that at Muirfield Village for a little while

Geez... I'm on team 'hazards should be hazardous' but that just seems mean.

[Tom_Doak]

Jack Nicklaus did that at Muirfield Village for a little while

Geez... I'm on team 'hazards should be hazardous' but that just seems mean.

Yes, it's one of those "be careful what you wish for" things.  Another year, Jack tried raking the bunkers in furrows like they used to do at Oakmont.  He just wanted the bunkers to count for something.  But the players hated it, and he didn't want to listen to all of that.

[David_Tepper]

R&A announcement on Hoylake's bunkers:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/2023-british-open-bunkers-r-and-a-fixed-round-2?utm_medium=email&utm_source=072123&utm_campaign=hlbn&utm_content=DM42329&uuid=9861c6da148243648f1aa92679fb32a0 

[Thomas Dai]

In the last round of the 1950 Open at Troon Roberto De Vicenzo hit his tee shot at the Postage Stamp 8th into a bunker. His ball was plugged so he declared it unplayable and returned to the tee. From there he put his second attempt right next to the hole and tapped-in for a par-3. The rules had recently been changed so that there was no penalty stroke for returning to the tee.
Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

My understanding is, the bunkers were raked flat, the pros predictably moan, so now they are raking them concave so the ball is less likely to be up against the sod.

I've never really thought about this before. With pot bunkers or standard, is this a measured or intentional thing? Are bunkers designed with sand angles/design in mind? Or is it just an after-thought?

Always part of design. With revetted links bunkers, if they are going to be raked concave, you need to ensure there isn’t too much sand built up through elements at the face. Otherwise a lip can form and balls can get stuck right against the face, even harder to play than flat bottom bunkers. Personally, I think it was a decent decision by the R&A today. Not keen on flat bottom bunkers.

[Rob Marshall]

Flat bottom bunkers at my club with pretty steep faces. They are a true penalty. Some with the steepest grass faces still wash out.