[Adrian_Stiff]

Goes to Birkdale. Quite a surprise to me, means Lytham is off the radar at the moment as that was technically the next sequenced English course. Birkdale is a big financial yielder to the coffers. Lytham is quite small in comparrison.


Next Walker Cup to GB is 2026, goes to Lahinch.

[Adam Lawrence]

Goes to Birkdale. Quite a surprise to me, means Lytham is off the radar at the moment as that was technically the next sequenced English course. Birkdale is a big financial yielder to the coffers. Lytham is quite small in comparrison.

Next Walker Cup to GB is 2026, goes to Lahinch.

I think the powers that be have decided that the Open has got too big for Lytham. Charlie Grimley, who was secretary at Lytham for more than ten years started a new job at Formby this week, tbh I doubt he'd have done that if they were in line for an Open any time soon.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Goes to Birkdale. Quite a surprise to me, means Lytham is off the radar at the moment as that was technically the next sequenced English course. Birkdale is a big financial yielder to the coffers. Lytham is quite small in comparrison.

Next Walker Cup to GB is 2026, goes to Lahinch.

I think the powers that be have decided that the Open has got too big for Lytham. Charlie Grimley, who was secretary at Lytham for more than ten years started a new job at Formby this week, tbh I doubt he'd have done that if they were in line for an Open any time soon.

I was of the understanding that Lytham are not off the radar but have been asked to carry out a few infrastructural changes that might take a while.


I thought it was common knowledge that Birkdale was going to be 2026, hence the knock-back of next year’s Women’s Amateur (rearranged for Portmarnock) so that they can undertake the M&E course changes in time for The Open (including removing the par-3 14th, extending the range etc…)

[Jerry Kluger]

I hope that The Open will one day go back to Turnberry - the work done under Trump's ownership is outstanding.  Now the question is when will he sell the course so the R & A will bring it back into the rota.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I hope that The Open will one day go back to Turnberry - the work done under Trump's ownership is outstanding.  Now the question is when will he sell the course so the R & A will bring it back into the rota.

Turnberry is another low yielder to the R & A and might go the same way. Agree the changes are outstanding.

[Niall C]

Adrian


Now that the Open has seemingly gone all ticket at each and every venue then I'm not sure that Turnberry and Lytham will remain as the least attended venues. I strongly suspect that pent up demand from elsewhere will spill over. Basically the ordinary punter will go where they can get in. Possibly the corporate demand might not be as much but I'm sure there are ways of bundling up packages so that sponsors either pony up for the least favourite venues or lose their place at the front of the queue for the more popular venues.


Setting aside demand, I wonder how they decide capacity and whether that changes from venue to venue ?


Niall

[Tony_Muldoon]

Adrian what are the income streams that matter?


Amount of spectators they can safely "cram" in?


Cost of infrastructure?


Ability to attract corporate hospitality?


At the recent RSG Open, the no of helicopters arriving was at Ryder Cup levels, it is the same everywhere?


Since Portrush they've pretty much sold all tickets well in advance, so it's only catering that's weather dependent.


NB typed at same time as above. Bit worrying, I'm starting to think like a weegie.

[Niall C]

NB typed at same time as above. Bit worrying, I'm starting to think like a weegie.

Nah, you're not that clever 


Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Adrian what are the income streams that matter?

Amount of spectators they can safely "cram" in?

Cost of infrastructure?

Ability to attract corporate hospitality?

At the recent RSG Open, the no of helicopters arriving was at Ryder Cup levels, it is the same everywhere?

WRT Sandwich, that rather makes sense. Obviously at RSG it's the access to the course that is the problem; you either have to drive through Sandwich town or take a train and make a fairly long walk just to get to the golf course (I went by train on the Thursday of the 2021 Open and my phone said I'd done ten thousand steps when I arrived at the course). But once you are actually on property, it's so huge that they could get a hundred thousand people in easily, if only there were a way to get them there. QED, if you can afford it, the chopper is a good idea.


WRT Turnberry it's access too. There's no rail access closer than Girvan so basically everyone has to get in and out down one road. I remember being at the 2009 Open with my late father. The second Watson missed his putt for the title, I said to Dad 'Come on, let's get moving'. He said to me 'Don't you want to watch the playoff?', to which I replied 'I'm pretty certain I know what is going to happen and watching it is not worth getting stuck at the back of a ten mile traffic jam'.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian


Now that the Open has seemingly gone all ticket at each and every venue then I'm not sure that Turnberry and Lytham will remain as the least attended venues. I strongly suspect that pent up demand from elsewhere will spill over. Basically the ordinary punter will go where they can get in. Possibly the corporate demand might not be as much but I'm sure there are ways of bundling up packages so that sponsors either pony up for the least favourite venues or lose their place at the front of the queue for the more popular venues.


Setting aside demand, I wonder how they decide capacity and whether that changes from venue to venue ?


Niall

yeah that makes sense but you are still battling capacity and total mayhem getting in and out of Turnberry, some of those roads still have sheep! These things still have to be run through the police logistics and don't get the ticks.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian what are the income streams that matter?


Amount of spectators they can safely "cram" in?


Cost of infrastructure?


Ability to attract corporate hospitality?


At the recent RSG Open, the no of helicopters arriving was at Ryder Cup levels, it is the same everywhere?


Since Portrush they've pretty much sold all tickets well in advance, so it's only catering that's weather dependent.


NB typed at same time as above. Bit worrying, I'm starting to think like a weegie.

I don't really know the numbers, but ticket prices have jumped big time, they collect themselves so really no agent fees to give away. Price will keep rising I expect to maximise. The plus side is it generates lots for the game though sadly nothing really filters back to golf clubs and we dont even get the right as a club to buy tickets which I think we should. Corporate costs a 5fold I think. Its a huge money spinner and understandable why it can't be played in Askernish.

[Thomas Dai]

Even excluding the Trump factor getting to Turnberry is a pretty horrible journey by car and the journey would be even less ‘enjoyable’ given the numbers who wish to attend these days.
Which begs another question, given how many attend The Open on-site is there a point at which (even ignoring for a moment the journey hassles and the ticket cost) attending on-site isn’t worth the bother coz the viewing experience isn’t what it once was when there were less spectators?
And then there’s the increase in corporate types etc attending and the pavilions etc, not aspects I for one appreciate even though I understand the financial element.
Atb

[Niall C]

Adam/David,


Turnberry is only a bit of a long drive if you don't live in Ayrshire ! Which is just another way of saying it is really about the demographics and not the access although obviously the easier/quicker the access then to an extent (probably a small extent in the case of Turnberry) that increases the number of people living within a particular travel time.


If you look at the map of Scotland, the main city for Turnberry is Glasgow. For most golf fans from Edinburgh it is simply too far away. Particularly when the Open is held at Muirfield, St Andrews and Carnoustie so often, which is a much easier commute, why would they bother ? Even Troon is a doddle for Edinburgh folk being motorway/dual carriageway pretty well all the way with the added option of the train. And for Glasgow/west of Scotland golf fans the east coast venues are all accessible to one extent or another although Muirfield is by far the worst if going by car and I very much doubt there is any chance they will lose the Open due to access issues.


Niall


ps. just realised I've been to every Open held at Turnberry which does make me feel old. I do recall the moans about access after the first or second one and promises made about the road being dualled all the way down which obviously never happened. Since then the traffic management techniques have improved and it really wasn't an issue in 2009, particularly compared to Muirfield.     

[Adam Lawrence]

Adam/David,

Turnberry is only a bit of a long drive if you don't live in Ayrshire ! Which is just another way of saying it is really about the demographics and not the access although obviously the easier/quicker the access then to an extent (probably a small extent in the case of Turnberry) that increases the number of people living within a particular travel time.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. It's only twenty miles from Troon to Turnberry, hardly a very significant distance. The issue is that, as you said, Troon has dual carriageway access and a railway station fifteen minutes walk from the golf course, while Turnberry has neither. Sandwich is an hour from untold millions of people in the South of England, but you have to go through a medieval town to get to the golf course. Muirfield is a few miles from Edinburgh but the access is terrible.

[Jeff Schley]

I like that the venues aren't all allocated for the next 20 plus years like the US Open. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

I like that the venues aren't all allocated for the next 20 plus years like the US Open.

They are allocated in pencil! The clubs have a fair idea where their next two are. Portrush, Covid impact plus sometimes other events cause a slight shift, but often they go because of anniversaries.
I really thought Lytham was nailed for 2026. 100 years after the first one and not had it for what would have been 14 years, will be a fair while I expect before it goes back, maybe 2031. RSG probably will get the next English champ 2028?. 2029 goes to Scotland, maybe Muirfield. Portrush I think is 2030 if they go with TOC getting the 2027-2032-2037 Opens relating to 155th-160th-165th.

You never know though they might fit an 'Ashburnham' in!

[Niall C]

Adam/David,

Turnberry is only a bit of a long drive if you don't live in Ayrshire ! Which is just another way of saying it is really about the demographics and not the access although obviously the easier/quicker the access then to an extent (probably a small extent in the case of Turnberry) that increases the number of people living within a particular travel time.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. It's only twenty miles from Troon to Turnberry, hardly a very significant distance. The issue is that, as you said, Troon has dual carriageway access and a railway station fifteen minutes walk from the golf course, while Turnberry has neither. Sandwich is an hour from untold millions of people in the South of England, but you have to go through a medieval town to get to the golf course. Muirfield is a few miles from Edinburgh but the access is terrible.

Troon to Turnberry is roughly the same as Edinburgh to Muirfield in both distance and travel times. A lot more people live in Edinburgh than live in Troon.


Niall

[Paul Dolton]

Royal Liverpool in 2030 would be a good way to mark the centenary of one of golfs greatest achievements.

[Matt Schoolfield]

I'm always a fan or something crazy like Reay

[mike_beene]

The only Open I have attended was the Ernie Els Sunday at Muirfield. Rode train down from St Andrews and the short train from Edinburgh to Muirfield seemed easy.
I don’t understand how they make Carnoustie work. Seems like one way in and out.

[Sean_A]

The only Open I have attended was the Ernie Els Sunday at Muirfield. Rode train down from St Andrews and the short train from Edinburgh to Muirfield seemed easy.
I don’t understand how they make Carnoustie work. Seems like one way in and out.

You took a train to Muirfield?

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

The only Open I have attended was the Ernie Els Sunday at Muirfield. Rode train down from St Andrews and the short train from Edinburgh to Muirfield seemed easy.
I don’t understand how they make Carnoustie work. Seems like one way in and out.

You took a train to Muirfield?

Ciao

Yeah I was trying to work that out too. The nearest station, Drem, is four miles from the golf course.

I was at that Open (I think it was the first I ever attended). Planned to stay with some friends in central Edinburgh on Sunday night and then go walking in the Highlands for a few days. Getting out of the car park was so bad it took me three hours to drive from Muirfield to Edinburgh New Town.

[Niall C]

That was possibly the Muirfield Open I was thinking about also. I recall being directed off the main track and eventually put into a field several miles away where they operated a park and ride system. I just remember feeling done in by the time I got to the course.


I think I've only done the train twice; once on the Friday of the Stenson Open at Troon, which was a great experience - the station was easily walkable, plenty of trains so not a lot of queuing, enough seats that we didn't need to stand - and then the other time was at Carnoustie where on the way back we had to queue forever and then had to stand all the way back to Glasgow, and paid £50 for the privilege - never again.


Niall   

[Kalen Braley]

Not trying to be obtuse here.

But is there a reason why they don't invest in better road capacity/throughput in the UK when outside of major areas?  Based on some of the pictures i've seen and stories heard, even the two lane roads barely qualify as that...

[Adam Lawrence]

Not trying to be obtuse here.

But is there a reason why they don't invest in better road capacity/throughput in the UK when outside of major areas?  Based on some of the pictures i've seen and stories heard, even the two lane roads barely qualify as that...

It's been proved beyond doubt that building more road capacity creates more traffic. We have more traffic than we need, and we don't need to tarmac over more of our green and pleasant land. The roads are fine, unless you're used to driving American tanks.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()