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Thomas Dai

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To significantly differentiate themselves from the normal run of the mill tournaments should the Men’s Majors be held over 5 rounds?
Or keep the Mens Majors at 4 rounds but reduce the usual mens tour events to only 3 rounds?

Atb
« Last Edit: July 09, 2023, 07:54:38 AM by Thomas Dai »

Ben Hollerbach

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2023, 11:51:18 AM »
After the amount of vitriol spewed over LIV and 54 holes, people would lose their minds if a regular event was played over only 3 rounds.


I would not be opposed to 5 rounds, the longer the tournament the less fluke winners we would see.

Kyle Harris

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2023, 12:00:19 PM »
After the amount of vitriol spewed over LIV and 54 holes, people would lose their minds if a regular event was played over only 3 rounds.


I would not be opposed to 5 rounds, the longer the tournament the less fluke winners we would see.


How does this follow?


Who are the judges of fluke winners, anyway? That seems more an indictment to the qualification process than it does the championship duration.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2023, 12:28:35 PM »
I do not remember ever hearing anyone wish that a tournament was more than four rounds!

Ben Malach

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2023, 12:46:20 PM »
I think the answer to this is a simple no.


The evidence is in the numbers that watch the national Am's. How many people watch the 36 holes of qualifying and then watch at least one match from each round of the bracket?


That's a ton of golf. I am going to the Us Women's Am this year but I probably won't be on site every day and I am a complete golf sicko. It's just too much golf for even me. So asking the casual fan to tune into a week almost of golf is too big of an ask.



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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2023, 01:58:04 PM »
I’m guessing Wimbledon has prompted this question. I do quite like the idea that the Majors are longer in one shape or another. Doesn’t mean it should happen though.

Ira Fishman

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2023, 02:09:15 PM »
I understand why the US Open stopped playing 36 holes on the last day, but the fact that Hogan won three times in that format after the automobile accident truly highlights what a remarkable golfer he was.

David_Tepper

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2023, 02:52:05 PM »
I can't see why anything needs to change at all. The majors are differentiated by their history, the quality of the courses on which they are played and the quality of the fields in the event. That is more than enough.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2023, 02:55:58 PM by David_Tepper »

Thomas Dai

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2023, 03:43:57 PM »
I’m guessing Wimbledon has prompted this question. I do quite like the idea that the Majors are longer in one shape or another. Doesn’t mean it should happen though.


Not quite, but I see the tennis current related relevance.
It comes from the thought that while the cream rises to the top but it takes time to do so, kinda an extension to what I believe was a Bobby Jones comment that anyone can win a short event but the best win when the event continues for longer.
Also got me pondering how many more Majors some extra-special elite men’s pros might have won if Major championship had been over 5 rounds. Plus to really differentiate mentally as well as skill on the day wise between a run of the mill mens pro event win and a Major.
Atb

Carl Rogers

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2023, 09:21:48 PM »
No
The other events should be 54 holes with some type of team element ( LIV??).
Let's just admit that the regular tour events is just infill and a paycheck between what counts.
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Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2023, 09:39:39 PM »
The other events should be 54 holes with some type of team element ( LIV??).
Let's just admit that the regular tour events is just infill and a paycheck between what counts.
Pretty sure if you ask about 90% of the guys on the PGA Tour, they will tell you those regular PGA Tour events "count" too. Even Rickie Fowler probably feels pretty good about winning one of those other events. Got him out of the Pancake Zone, after all.
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Sean_A

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2023, 12:28:26 AM »
No
The other events should be 54 holes with some type of team element ( LIV??).
Let's just admit that the regular tour events is just infill and a paycheck between what counts.

Yep. Golf can't draw a good audience as is. Plus, why do elite players need special consideration? I like rank outsiders winning majors. People act as though these players shouldn't win or the event is somehow tainted if a top whatever player doesn't win. I have always found that attitude strange and even stranger to then use the result to besmirch the host course. It's ridiculous.

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Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2023, 01:19:58 AM »
After the amount of vitriol spewed over LIV and 54 holes, people would lose their minds if a regular event was played over only 3 rounds.


I would not be opposed to 5 rounds, the longer the tournament the less fluke winners we would see.


How does this follow?


Who are the judges of fluke winners, anyway? That seems more an indictment to the qualification process than it does the championship duration.


A golf tournament of 100 rounds would identify the better golfer more than an event of 4 rounds.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

jeffwarne

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Re: Should the Men’s Major be 5 rounds or ………. ???
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2023, 06:58:05 AM »
After the amount of vitriol spewed over LIV and 54 holes, people would lose their minds if a regular event was played over only 3 rounds.


I would not be opposed to 5 rounds, the longer the tournament the less fluke winners we would see.


How does this follow?


Who are the judges of fluke winners, anyway? That seems more an indictment to the qualification process than it does the championship duration.


A golf tournament of 100 rounds would identify the better golfer more than an event of 4 rounds.


Perhaps.
But how interesting would the 11th round be...
4 is perfect.


We don't need the same winner of every major.
Tiger's' excellence  turned many new and old fans as well as journalists  into lazy dopes.
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Thomas Dai

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2023, 07:56:22 AM »
Note title change.
Now let's look at it from another perspective.
Men's run-of-the-mill tournaments = 3 rounds
Men's Major Championships = 4 rounds
???
atb



David Cronan

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2023, 08:31:17 AM »
I'm sure the participants would like that fact that they'd be able to spend an extra day at home during the week. Whether or not they prefer a 54 hole competition vs a 72 hole competition, I'm not qualified to answer for them.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2023, 08:57:39 AM »
For most tournaments, the commitment for players is five rounds:  four in competition, plus a pro-am day beforehand that they are obliged to attend.  Interestingly, it seems that more tournaments are having two pros tag-team for nine holes each in the pro-ams now, but that's still a fifth day the players have to be away.


The pro-am often helps fund the tournament, so that's not going away.  And yes, many players would rather have three days of competition instead of four, if the money was relatively the same.


LIV is hardly the only circuit to play 54-hole competitions.  I believe that most college tournaments are 54 holes, until they get to the NCAAs.  A lot of LPGA events used to be 54 holes.


Does 54 holes identify the best player as well as 72 holes?  Probably not.  But is that really what tournament golf is about?  Arguably there would be more pressure on the better players to stay focused in a 54-hole event, instead of coasting on the assumption that a lot of the field is going to fall away eventually.  Bobby Jones did say that the hardest event to win was the Amateur Championship --  a bunch of 18-hole matches where you are always in danger of running into a guy playing over his head.


We do nine-hole matches for the Renaissance Cup precisely because it increases the odds of an upset . . . but winning five matches in a row does take some fortitude.

Ira Fishman

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2023, 09:09:47 AM »
Walter Hagen would agree with you.

David_Tepper

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2023, 10:41:36 AM »
"Golf can't draw a good audience as is."

I suppose that depends on how one defines a "good audience."

TV ratings for PGA Tour golf are up:

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pga-tour-2023-season-us-tv-viewers-audience-ratings-nbc-cbs-golf-channel/?zephr_sso_ott=Xrcf9T

https://awfulannouncing.com/golf/pga-tour-broadcast-tv-growth-liv.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2023/04/12/masters-tv-ratings-mark-5-year-high-for-golf-with-pga-tour-liv-showdown/

One could argue that the number of viewers is still relatively small, but the demographic profile of those viewers is very impressive and that is what advertisers care about.


p.s. Even with the change of title, I still don't see the point of this thread. The answer is clearly no.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2023, 10:43:28 AM by David_Tepper »

Jeff Schley

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2023, 11:42:15 AM »
It is precedent and the status quo which is always hard to change from (LIV). It is like saying should the NBA play just 3 quarters in the regular season?  Baseball should be 7 innings?  We can shorten the sample, but as we do it increases the variance due to small sample sizes.  I like the precedence for stroke play being 4 rounds with a cut. Certainly there are other formats in golf that I also enjoy such as foursomes tremendously. The Ryder Cup is a case in point of how non-stroke play events can be hugely popular. Not married to stroke play, but it the format for modern majors.
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Sean_A

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2023, 01:48:51 AM »
"Golf can't draw a good audience as is."

I suppose that depends on how one defines a "good audience."

TV ratings for PGA Tour golf are up:

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pga-tour-2023-season-us-tv-viewers-audience-ratings-nbc-cbs-golf-channel/?zephr_sso_ott=Xrcf9T

https://awfulannouncing.com/golf/pga-tour-broadcast-tv-growth-liv.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2023/04/12/masters-tv-ratings-mark-5-year-high-for-golf-with-pga-tour-liv-showdown/

One could argue that the number of viewers is still relatively small, but the demographic profile of those viewers is very impressive and that is what advertisers care about.


p.s. Even with the change of title, I still don't see the point of this thread. The answer is clearly no.

You can couch it anyway you like. Golf remains a minor tv sport despite the temporary negative press driving up numbers. If it was a major sport LIV doesn't pull off what they did.

I would be in favour of dropping a ton of events. The Tour drags on far too long to gain my attention. Better yet, create divisions from these also ran events.

Ciao
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 01:51:08 AM by Sean_A »
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Phil Young

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2023, 08:20:19 AM »
Considering how much more money goes into the coffers of the PGA Tour by having a fourth round of tournament golf, I very much doubt that losing it would be a small consideration to the players who make their living playing tournament golf. TV revenues, food and other concession funds, parking, etc.; all would be reduced dramatically. Wouldn't this also lower the tournament purse? Then there would be the question of the "cut" to the pay round(s). Would it be after day one or two?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 01:13:54 PM by Phil Young »

David Kelly

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2023, 12:08:14 PM »
Golf's TV ratings will always suffer from the fact that during the broadcasts a significant number of their potential audience is missing - they're out playing golf. 
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Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2023, 02:26:19 PM »
I'm not really a fan of professional sports in general, so grain-of-salt and all that, but I remember when Cam Smith left the tour, he cited time to go fishing with his friends. Looking at the tour, unlike other sports, there doesn't seem to be a clear off season. Thus, I guess changing it from 4 rounds to 3 seems like the wrong way to save time. It may be better to just, dare I say, not host events for some 3 months of the year.
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Ben Hollerbach

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Re: Should run-of-the-mill Men’s pro tournaments be only 3 rounds?
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2023, 02:46:33 PM »
Considering how much more money goes into the coffers of the PGA Tour by having a fourth round of tournament golf, I very much doubt that losing it would be a small consideration to the players who make their living playing tournament golf. TV revenues, food and other concession funds, parking, etc.; all would be reduced dramatically. Wouldn't this also lower the tournament purse? Then there would be the question of the "cut" to the pay round(s). Would it be after day one or two?

Presumably if a tournament was to be reduced from 4 tournament days to 3 days, it would be the Thursday round that was cut.

 At a venue like TPC Scottsdale, who leads in attendance numbers year after year, Their Thursday attendance accounts for ~15% of weekly attendance, or 1/7th of the total weekly attendance. In contrast, Friday and Saturday combine for 4/7th of the total weekly attendance. Incidentally, with the event often ending on Super Bowl Sunday, attendance at the Waste Management on Sunday has been comparable to Wednesday attendance. I would presume that the lower Sunday turnout is a bit unusual across the PGA Tour. While Saturday could be the most popular day to visit the tournament, I would not expect there to be a significant different between Friday and Sunday numbers at most events.

That being said, using the Waste Management at a measuring stick, presuming the tournament week now ran from Tuesday-Sunday, I think you would expect an attendance loss of ~10% for the week.



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