[William_G]

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/infographics/2016-anchoring-the-club-final.pdf


https://www.usga.org/videos/2013/03/05/anchoring-the-club-understanding-rule-14-1b-2203290356001.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5VLcuLRs3U


Sentry World looks tough

[Rob Marshall]

What’s the point of this post?

[A.G._Crockett]

What’s the point of this post?

My question as well.


I can think of three?
1. Langer is cheating.
2. Langer isn’t cheating.
3. The anchoring ban remains what it has always been; a bad idea, if only because of enforcement issues.


#3, of course, could be true along with either #1 or #2.  But in any case, this ship sailed a LONG time ago, and ain’t coming back.

[William_G]

What’s the point of this post?

education sir
it's clear that the officials at the USGA are not enforcing the anchoring rule 14-1b
no one is cheating yet the rule as detailed in print and video does not seem to be enforced


I look forward to playing Sentry World later this summer, looks challenging

[William_G]

What’s the point of this post?

My question as well.


I can think of three?
1. Langer is cheating.
2. Langer isn’t cheating.
3. The anchoring ban remains what it has always been; a bad idea, if only because of enforcement issues.


#3, of course, could be true along with either #1 or #2.  But in any case, this ship sailed a LONG time ago, and ain’t coming back.

when anchoring your forearm against your chest you are in violation of rule 14-1b as described in detail by the USGA

[Rob Marshall]

Are you saying Langer is doing that?

[William_G]

Are you saying Langer is doing that?

of course, just look at the youtube video
I watched the Senior Open live and it is happening

[John Kavanaugh]

And Rory will spend Saudi money the “right way”.

[Jeff Evagues]

I watched Langer closely in person in Phoenix a few years ago. He cheats every day.

[Mike_Trenham]

I watched about 15 minutes of the coverage.  At one point on a drop the official did not allow Langer to use his putter to determine a club length.  Early in its emergence on the tours there was a gentleman’s agreement to not use a long putter on drops, not to say everyone followed suit but it was a gesture not a rule.

[Rob Marshall]

I watched Langer closely in person in Phoenix a few years ago. He cheats every day.

So they ran Tim Clark out of the game when he physically HAD to use the long putter due to an issue with his arms but they allow Langer to cheat every day? I wonder who Clark pissed off…

[Tim Martin]

I watched about 15 minutes of the coverage.  At one point on a drop the official did not allow Langer to use his putter to determine a club length.  Early in its emergence on the tours there was a gentleman’s agreement to not use a long putter on drops, not to say everyone followed suit but it was a gesture not a rule.

Mike-I saw him grab his putter on 18 to determine a club length and then switch to the driver with a rules official on the scene. It seemed that the driver length gave him a better chance at avoiding the sprinkler heads that were in his path when taking the drop. I couldn’t tell if the official said anything to him.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

of course, just look at the youtube video
I watched the Senior Open live and it is happening

Touching a loose shirt is not the same as anchoring.

Also, there is no 14-1, nor has there been for over four years. Rule 14 currently covers:

Rule 14 - Procedures for Ball: Marking, Lifting and Cleaning; Replacing on Spot; Dropping in Relief Area; Playing from Wrong Place

10.1b covers Anchoring.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Mike-I saw him grab his putter on 18 to determine a club length and then switch to the driver with a rules official on the scene. It seemed that the driver length gave him a better chance at avoiding the sprinkler heads that were in his path when taking the drop. I couldn’t tell if the official said anything to him.

A "club length" in the rules of golf is defined (bold/orange the end of the first sentence added):

Club-Length

The length of the longest club of the 14 (or fewer) clubs the player has during the round (as allowed by Rule 4.1b(1)), other than a putter.
A club-lengthis a unit of measurement used in defining the player’s teeing area on each hole and in determining the size of the player’s relief area when taking relief under a Rule.

For the purpose of measuring these areas, the length of the entire club is used, starting at the toe of the club and ending at the butt end of the grip. But any attachment to the end of the grip is not part of the club-length.

[Tommy Williamsen]

This an uncomfortable thread. It is in poor taste to accuse someone of cheating on a public forum.

[Kalen Braley]

This part of the rule is poorly written IMO.

"If the player’s club, gripping hand or forearm merely touches their body or clothing during the stroke, without being held against the body, there is no breach of this Rule."

How could you tell from a distance if the arm is just merely touching the body or being anchored?? He certainly holds it very still during the stroke as if it were anchored.

I think William makes a good point here even if the evidence isn't necessarily conclusive.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I think William makes a good point here even if the evidence isn't necessarily conclusive.

I disagree. Again, Bernhard showed the USGA his stroke, and has a few times since, and they've given him the okay.

And the point of the language you cited is that if you brush against your body while making a stroke, that's different than "anchoring."

[jeffwarne]

This an uncomfortable thread. It is in poor taste to accuse someone of cheating on a public forum.

Bingo.
1. he's not
2. Is golf a better game because some "suit" at the USGA thought anchored/long putters "looked" bad("one" of the early stated reasons to ban anchoring)
3. is golf a better game with Bernhard Langer, a role model in many ways, out of the winner's circle?
4. How many greens have been altered, and how much money has been spent to modify courses due to achoring?(compared to the staggering number altered due to tech increases in length and accuracy)




Finally, if it was such an advantage, EVERYBODY would have been anchoring, the same as they all adopted a multilayer ball, and a lightweight, longer shafted, thin faced rebounding, low spin optimized driver with fargiveness(and now fways, hybrids and long irons) because hitting it farther and longer IS an advantage.


Anchoring wasn't an "advantage" but rather a preference, or a survival tactic for some.

[Mike Wagner]

This an uncomfortable thread. It is in poor taste to accuse someone of cheating on a public forum.

Bingo.
1. he's not
2. Is golf a better game because some "suit" at the USGA thought anchored/long putters "looked" bad("one" of the early stated reasons to ban anchoring)
3. is golf a better game with Bernhard Langer, a role model in many ways, out of the winner's circle?
4. How many greens have been altered, and how much money has been spent to modify courses due to achoring?(compared to the staggering number altered due to tech increases in length and accuracy)




Finally, if it was such an advantage, EVERYBODY would have been anchoring, the same as they all adopted a multilayer ball, and a lightweight, longer shafted, thin faced rebounding, low spin optimized driver with fargiveness(and now fways, hybrids and long irons) because hitting it farther and longer IS an advantage.


Anchoring wasn't an "advantage" but rather a preference, or a survival tactic for some.

This ^


Ban anchoring but go ahead and leave the flagstick in. Ridiculous.

[Mike Worth]

What’s the point of this post?

That was my thought. It’s like storytelling via pictures.

[Mike Worth]

What’s the point of this post?

education sir
it's clear that the officials at the USGA are not enforcing the anchoring rule 14-1b
no one is cheating yet the rule as detailed in print and video does not seem to be enforced


I look forward to playing Sentry World later this summer, looks challenging

Education through meme posting

[William_G]

lot of weird stuff here on the follow up


why not discuss?


seems obvious to me that the left forearm is anchored on the chest


this is a rule violation whether advantageous or not, not-intended, whatever


it has happened and is happening


clearly rules don't matter to everybody


thank you

[A.G._Crockett]

lot of weird stuff here on the follow up


why not discuss?


seems obvious to me that the left forearm is anchored on the chest


this is a rule violation whether advantageous or not, not-intended, whatever


it has happened and is happening


clearly rules don't matter to everybody


thank you

With all due respect, discuss what, exactly? 

You and I are watching TV, and even if you have a really good TV, it can't possibly show you whether or not Langer's forearm is anchored.  There are people on the scene, both players and Rules officials, that have a better view, so I'll wait for one of them to step up and make the claim you're making.  Which they aren't...
You started a hit thread on Langer, and now you seem disappointed that others won't join in.  Whatever he's doing, he's been doing for the entire 7+ years that the anchoring ban has been in effect.  I don't think the opinions or discussion of a group of people watching TV are especially pertinent to this question, no matter which side one takes. 

[Peter Flory]

Here is a clip with them discussing it.  BL and others contend that it's just their shirt sagging off their body when they lean forward.  So, it looks like the forearm and/or the left hand is touching the torso when it really isn't. 


Sorry, the audio is pretty quiet in this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOxLmec_8cE

[Daryl David]

Here is a clip with them discussing it.  BL and others contend that it's just their shirt sagging off their body when they lean forward.  So, it looks like the forearm and/or the left hand is touching the torso when it really isn't. 


Sorry, the audio is pretty quiet in this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOxLmec_8cE

I think the solution is obvious. Players like Langer should be required to play shirtless. 

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