Good course, disastrous 18th

[Cliff Hamm]

Played Mt Washington in NH.  Enjoyable course until 18.  18 is a 300 yard hole from the white tee.  But 90 degree dogleg over marsh.  So 'drive' is 150, followed by 150 second shot, just an awful hole. 


Btw..pictures show up on pc but not on Ipad.  Anyone know why?

Other decent courses with an abomination for the 18th?










If you look carefully you can see the flag between bushes in front of clubhouse.  Just don't be long!

[Ben Stephens]

Played Mt Washington in NH.  Enjoyable course until 18.  18 is a 300 yard hole from the white tee.  But 90 degree dogleg over marsh.  So 'drive' is 150, followed by 150 second shot, just an awful hole. 

Other decent courses with an abomination for the 18th?




If you look carefully you can see the flag between bushes in front of clubhouse.  Just don't be long!

Cypress Point?

Another is Wellingborough a really short 18th hole that is an awkward par 4 hole and its very hard to drive for the green.

[Tom_Doak]

High Pointe had a pretty bad 18th, out of character with the rest of the course.  I've fixed that this time around!


The first course that came to mind was White Bear Yacht Club.  It's a great course, but the 18th is not a great hole.  Blind drive over a big ridge, then a flip wedge to the least interesting green on the course.

[Ira Fishman]

It is not a disaster, but Kingsbarns 18 is a pretty bad hole.

[John McCarthy]

Not alone in this but Harvester 18 enforces 3 shot around a lake, and even for a short hitter like me a 3wd or hybrid off tee.

[Wade Whitehead]

Royal New Kent

WW

[DFarron]

The 18th at Falcon Crest in Kuna (metro Boise) is pretty awful which is sad because other than that hole it’s one of the best in Boise.


It’s a par 4 about 420 from the whites. At 220 from the tee is a giant lake so you have to lay up or take a chance on a 22-yard strip of fairway that runs on the left side of the lake. Second shot is a 200 yard carry over the lake into usually prevailing wind.

[Jeff Schley]

Somerset Hills 18th, short par 4 straight uphill and blind tee shot. Green has some character, but the walk uphill takes the last bit of wind out of your sails as the back 9 is a tough walk. Not a big fan of blind tee shots, especially the 18th.  Wonderful course, especially the front 9.

[Enno Gerdes]

Not sure I would call them "disastrous", but I've played two courses in England with questionable 18th holes.


Reddish Vale - relatively short tee shot, and then a very steep climb towards the green. You basically need a long iron to reach the green, but you can't really fly a long iron high enough to cover the incline.


West Essex - not a bad hole per se, but there's a very artificially looking ditch around 200 yards from the tee, so I guess 95% of golfers have to lay up. I think I played 5 iron off the tee (it's a par 5).


Good golf courses otherwise, but you enter the club house wondering what that 18th was all about.

[Mark Pearce]

Reddish Vale - relatively short tee shot, and then a very steep climb towards the green. You basically need a long iron to reach the green, but you can't really fly a long iron high enough to cover the incline.

That one is disastrous.  Utterly ridiculous, thoroughly bad golf hole.  Possibly the worst hole on a golf course I have seen. 

[JohnVDB]

Assuming they haven’t changed it since I was last there around 2007, the 18th at Pittsburgh Field Club is an odd par 3 on top of the hill by the clubhouse with a green that doesn’t feel like any other one on the course.  The best part of it is the elevator ride up from 17.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Considering the previous 17 holes, the 18th at Cypress Point sure qualifies.


It was the most bizarre "let down" I have ever experienced. Especially after playing 15-16-17.

[MCirba]

Ian,


Was just going to mention that CP is probably the poster child for a letdown finish.


So was 18 at Cobb's Creek, because the original architects were prevented from building the Magnum Opus they envisioned as the Fairmount Park Commission would not permit them to remove any trees.


Over a century later we intend to realize their vision.   

[Jim_Coleman]

   Philly Country is weak.  The original 18th is now #3, which famously cost Snead his only US Open. The present 18th is a nothing par 4 following an iconic par 4 17th.

[Charlie Goerges]

I wonder if the 18th at CPC isn't a letdown so much as the players who are only playing it once are let down by the fact that the 18th means the round is over and you're already missing the course?

[John Foley]

LOVE the course but a big fan of 18 @ Glens Falls.

[Jason Topp]

The Twin Cities have a few of these:

• White Bear Yacht Club - see above

• Windsong Farm - Awkward Par five that poses some interesting strategic choices but sits awkwardly on the land, includes artifical ponds that I believe detract from the hole and includes hazards on the bail-out side that cause one to play more and more cautiously the more one has experience with the hole. 

• Minikahda - Similar hole to WBYC but without the blindness and at least a nice view.

• Interlachen - work is being done to address the issue but green had turned into a joke at modern green speeds

Others might argue Midland Hills, Town and Country, Oak Ridge and Woodhill also feature poor final holes.  I disagree. 

[PCCraig]

The first course that came to mind was White Bear Yacht Club.  It's a great course, but the 18th is not a great hole.  Blind drive over a big ridge, then a flip wedge to the least interesting green on the course.

If things come together as hoped, the 18th at WBYC will be restored in the coming year(s). Pond removed, greenside bunkers put back, etc.


I personally love the tee shot and the view of the lake from the top of the hill is one of the best on the course. The green & its surrounds are not particularly appealing in its current design. It may never be the best hole on the course, but it could/should be dramatically improved.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I wonder if the 18th at CPC isn't a letdown so much as the players who are only playing it once are let down by the fact that the 18th means the round is over and you're already missing the course?

Nah....p;-)


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43897.0/nowap.html


Been debated for years.


It's the closing hole on one of the best courses in the world where both tee shot and approach shots are 100% determined by TREES.


I recall hitting a high draw 5-wood over one of the trees than having to hit a some sort of low draw uphill iron shot en route to a closing bogie.


(Okay, fine, I didnt hit the "correct" tee shot I grant you that.)


It was as if I was on an incredible date with the classiest woman in the world, and 3+ hours drifeted by in a second....yet just as the date was ending, I discovered that she had bad breath....


Great converstion.
Great dresser.
Fantastic dancer.
Beauty like a movie star....ooof...but that breath at the end....;p-)

[Michael George]

How about possibly the best golf course in the world with a disastrous 18th?   Cypress Point.


Other good/notable courses with a bad 18th hole are:


Bandon Dunes - how can you not route that hole along the barranca
Arcadia Bluffs - not sure how good the course is, but it is really pretty ...... but the 18th hole is incredibly bad
Tobacco Road - I am a big fan of the boldness of the golf course but 18 just goes crazy too far

[Charlie Goerges]

I wonder if the 18th at CPC isn't a letdown so much as the players who are only playing it once are let down by the fact that the 18th means the round is over and you're already missing the course?

Nah....p;-)


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43897.0/nowap.html


Been debated for years.


It's the closing hole on one of the best courses in the world where both tee shot and approach shots are 100% determined by TREES.


I recall hitting a high draw 5-wood over one of the trees than having to hit a some sort of low draw uphill iron shot en route to a closing bogie.


(Okay, fine, I didnt hit the "correct" tee shot I grant you that.)


It was as if I was on an incredible date with the classiest woman in the world, and 3+ hours drifeted by in a second....yet just as the date was ending, I discovered that she had bad breath....


Great converstion.
Great dresser.
Fantastic dancer.
Beauty like a movie star....ooof...but that breath at the end....;p-)

I can't argue with personal experience, but it has the feel of something a little bit psychological because of the range of opinions. Nobody is saying it's a great hole, but some smart people (including Sandy Tatum's interview on the linked thread) have also said it's badness is greatly overstated by others.


If it's not psychological, maybe it's linguistic or logical. If CPC 18th was on the front nine of Olympic Club (another course I haven't played) say, how would it rank?

[Jim Hoak]

I would argue that not only isn't the 18th at Cypress "disastrous," it actually is a great 18th hole.  It is especially good when you think of the game most of us play--match play, usually with a partner--, because many different outcomes are possible.  MacKenzie thought of it as being a precision hole, concluding a round on a course offering many options on most holes.  It is like two very precise Par-3 hole shots following each other.  Maybe it takes some getting used to, but it is a perfect conclusion to a round.  The criticism of it has become almost an "in thing" to do without much thinking--just because it looks and plays somewhat differently than the other holes that give the player more options.  But I have heard compliments from some of the best golf minds, who have thought more about it, and praise it.

[Ben Stephens]

I probably ruffle a few feathers here - the 18th on the Old Course at St Andrews. Its becoming too easy for the best players in the world has seen in the Open last year. I am one that prefers the 18th to be one of the hardest hole to finish.

[Ben Stephens]

I would argue that not only isn't the 18th at Cypress "disastrous," it actually is a great 18th hole.  It is especially good when you think of the game most of us play--match play, usually with a partner.  MacKenzie thought of it as being a precision hole, concluding a round on a course offering many options on most holes.  It is like two very precise Par-3 hole shots following each other.  Maybe it takes some getting used to, but it is a perfect conclusion to a round.  The criticism of it has become almost an "in thing" to do without much thinking--just because it looks and plays somewhat differently than the other holes that give the player more options.  But I have heard compliments from some of the best golf minds, who have thought more about it, and praise it.

I have never played Cypress but do have Geoff Shackleford's book and like the 18th at Wellingborough near Northampton England its like playing two par 3s in a row and you can't be guaranteed to have a clear shot to the great because a tree blocks it. Its not how I would imagine a good 18th is. They could have finished on the 17th instead (that would be a wow finishing hole) and put a hole elsewhere to replace the current 18th.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I would argue that not only isn't the 18th at Cypress "disastrous," it actually is a great 18th hole.  It is especially good when you think of the game most of us play--match play, usually with a partner.  MacKenzie thought of it as being a precision hole, concluding a round on a course offering many options on most holes. It is like two very precise Par-3 hole shots following each other.  Maybe it takes some getting used to, but it is a perfect conclusion to a round.  The criticism of it has become almost an "in thing" to do without much thinking--just because it looks and plays somewhat differently than the other holes that give the player more options.  But I have heard
 compliments from some of the best golf minds, who have thought more about it, and praise it.

Jim, you sound like you are describing a "target golf hole" at some generic desert course in Scottsdale...


What, in fact, IS YOUR argument?
I dont see it.


You knock down a tree or two and it's a different hole.
Maybe a good 6th or 13th hole, but a closer?


It's just so antithetical to every other hole there.


Not sure I am very familiar with any Golden Age GCAs pointing to trees to make a strategic statement on a golf hole.


Are you?


Then again, I also think 17 is a bizarre hole with a mini-forest in the middle of a fairway and bunkers where you simply CANNOT advance the ball because of all the stupid trees.


Take the trees away (that are basically in or on your driving line) on 17 and 18 and you really have two very easy closing holes.


Not sure our heros in "The Match" would agree....