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John McCarthy

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2023, 06:59:06 AM »
With Riviera hosting the 2028 Olympics, I'm a bit surprised they'd agree to host the US Open just 3 years later.


When do the members get to play? I assume other local clubs pick up the slack.
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Matthew Rose

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2023, 03:21:36 AM »
Why would they make #2 a par-five? Just to have one on the front side?

They've done 34-36 before (Baltusrol) and they've done 36-34 before (Merion) so why this? Call #1 a par four and leave it at that.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Sam Kestin

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2023, 11:22:25 AM »
Why would they make #2 a par-five? Just to have one on the front side?

They've done 34-36 before (Baltusrol) and they've done 36-34 before (Merion) so why this? Call #1 a par four and leave it at that.


Matthew--I think that this is probably right (the desire to have a par-five on the front), but there is a compelling argument that the second hole was designed to be a par-five in the first place. The green itself is awfully narrow for a long two-shot hole (it plays wider now that they shaved the hill on the right side) and the bunkers 25 yards short-left and about 125 yards short-right of the green feel like they were meant to complicate lay-up second shots on a three-shot hole.


It has been a little while since I've dug into this question, but my recollection of the historical research into Thomas' original intent on this hole was that he had meant for it to play as a five-par hole. I could be wrong about that, but I know for a fact that there have been times in the past (I think for a lot of the 80s and 90s at least) where the second did play as a par-five.

Pat Burke

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2023, 05:19:06 PM »
Isnt there still  a lot of room behind 2 tee for more length to be added ?

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2023, 06:25:58 PM »
Isnt there still  a lot of room behind 2 tee for more length to be added ?


Yes.  They could go back about 60 yards or more, but it would require some tree removal. 


Honestly, I don’t see them doing that because they’re going to be pressing for pavilion space EVERYWHERE!

Alex Miller

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2023, 01:58:24 PM »
Isnt there still  a lot of room behind 2 tee for more length to be added ?


Yes.  They could go back about 60 yards or more, but it would require some tree removal. 


Honestly, I don’t see them doing that because they’re going to be pressing for pavilion space EVERYWHERE!


There is a current tee already in existence at about 520yds that is not used for the Genesis. I'd bet they extend it to make the hole play 550 or so but it is uphill and not downwind, so already presents much more of a challenge than #1.

V. Kmetz

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2023, 03:39:54 PM »

First off, don't change much there...it's pretty frickin' great.  No re-grassing, no re-greening...7 and 8 are almost too strong for recreational play but plenty good and the pros can make double on those two, even with wedges into those green sites. The only hole I think has been rendered a joke by technology is #3.  They'll be getting it up to the green apron in 2031 (LoL but then it'll be like 6 - 12 at the TOC last season).


As to this #1 and 2 discussion:

It's one thing if the USGA simply wants both of the holes to play 500+ yards; it's available; won't impact the architectural bones of the 2nd itself or the course in toto, and as long as any rear removals don't compromise qualities of #11...go nuts.  But if such a change precipitates a permanent decision to say the argument is settled, Thomas wanted a three shot hole there and a bevy of other monkeying to honor that discovered "intent," then no way... that hole s already one of the most brightened, improved holes there, has a great look and that close mown treatment of the greenside hill has breathed absolute life into its denouement.  (One of the best places to watch shots at Riviera).  It may be a softening "4" for the professionals, but its a fair and fun half par hole for most of us.


I mean I've beaten the horse years beyond the glue factory, but don't these debates about #1/2 absolutely expose the individual hole par as a nonsense issue no matter if pars switch, (71) both are carded as fours (70), or both carded as fives (72)?... I mean either the elite Open field or Genesis field are going to make 4s and 5s on those holes, with the occasional 3 and the slightly more occasional 6... those fields are hitting 6, 7 and 8s on #1 approach and 5, 6s and 7s on #2 currently (owing entirely to uphill/downhill, prevailing wind). How is the par changing that, except for the audience consuming it and the scorecard printer?


Meanwhile, while I haven't played Riviera in almost 20 years, I recall and observe the architectural experience of the average player is two excellent challenging "half par" holes right out the gate, the zesty "lick your chops one to start"...the second, needing two sure blows which gets more sporty and demanding the closer to the hole you get.


Why would you get rid of that, do anything architecturally to facilitate that riddance or even change the card psychology of that? Even as dopey as card par is to actual experienced architecture, we can concede a tradition of presentation that works...WORKS.


Isn't LACC and TOC last Open starting to turn the worm...both to the need for rollback but regular popular acceptance of 270-275 as a four day score for international/national championships?


Riviera doesn't need anything but a softer, slightly bigger green on #10.  Even a shortish golf hole should have one yard tolerance, and there the tolerance is about to dip under a foot...
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2023, 07:52:43 PM »
Where will they put the infrastructure & how will they get people in & out of there?


The tennis court footprint looks good but comparing that to what they had at LACC I'm not seeing it. Im sure they've scoped it out and the Genesis gives them idea but that looks like a huge undertaking.


The most land locked place I've seen host a major was Merion and they used a lot of close by real estate (Haverford College) & they put the range on the West course. Brookline worked well as they had the other 9 holes + the muni next door and again public transportation. At the Open buses for LACC running down Santa Monica, the lots near there they used & the ride share drop off seemed to work almost flawlessly. When I was there no one had any issues.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Adam G

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2023, 11:24:16 PM »
Where will they put the infrastructure & how will they get people in & out of there?



To be honest I have no idea.



The only options besides the tennis courts are the Paul Revere Middle School fields which are very far and require walking through a neighborhood or putting the range at somewhere like Brentwood Country Club as they did with the Merion West Course and using the Riviera range for tents. Or they could try to put some of the tents at the VA with parking. But all of these sound like horrible logistical ideas to me.

Tommy Naccarato

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2023, 12:33:11 AM »
There is always the possibility that they could have a range & practice area set up at Will Rogers Park.  I’ve suggested that in the past, but honestly, they need the range close to the 1st & 10th tees.  It would be a bit of a delay to get them from there to the tees.


Rogers did in fact have a three-hole Billy Bell-layout on the property.  It’s still there, though drastically eroded and not maintained as such.

William_G

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Re: The Riviera Country Club Chosen to Host 2031 U.S. Open
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2023, 09:32:19 AM »
of course Riviera is loved by many yet the space restrictions for the type of build out LACC had with Riviera being strictly a ravine course is not to be underestimated


the logistics for a relocated driving range alone is ridiculous



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