PGA to merge with LIV

[cary lichtenstein]

My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.

[Tommy Williamsen]

We don’t really know how this will end but it feels slimy.

[Tom_Doak]

The most interesting analysis has been from the business insiders/experts that have taken days to respond rather the golf people that took minutes or hours. There are a significant number of articles from people that study this sort of thing opining that the “merger” portion of this has a snowballs chance of coming to fruition. I tend to agree.


What’s more likely is the DoJ still pursues the anti-trust piece of this and the PIF and PGA withdraw the “merger”, LIV dies, and the PGA gets an investor. I don’t see how either entity can risk discovery.

Can you provide a link or links to any of this analysis?

Apparently Ben and I read the some of the same blogs!


The author suggested that the deal was SO CLEARLY a red flag for antitrust issues that perhaps they are hoping to have it stopped.  Here's a taste of his view:


By ending the antitrust fight between the PGA Tour and LIV Golf, Saudi PIF emails will remain private. It’s true that there will be a merger challenge, so bad emails could come out if they bring this merger to a trial. But a more likely path is that the DOJ investigates the PGA Tour-LIV deal, the Saudis drop their merger attempt before a trial, and LIV Golf shuts down. There could be some sort of Saudi investment in the PGA Tour later. Meanwhile, everyone gets the headlines now, which obscures the reality that the Saudis don’t want emails made public, and they can blame the Antitrust Division for the collapse of LIV Golf.

[Daryl David]

My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.

I think someone should let me go back and buy AMZN at the IPO price too. I was unwilling to take the risk back then. Should I be compensated now?  Like my Mom said: “it is what it is, get over it”.

[Tim_Cronin]

I think it's all going to come crashing down. It won't be tomorrow, and maybe not for another 10, 15 years....No more tour, no more golf on TV.   It will be a circus that no one will care about....like the NBA.

Judging by television ratings, merchandise sales and chatter about the next TV deal, the NBA is in great shape.


Golf? Aside from four weeks a year, I don’t know.

[SL_Solow]

Been offline for a while.  Don't know enough to comment on the legality of the deal until we see more details/documents.  Anything else is premature, uniformed speculation.  However, I suspect that those who believe that the Saudis were disturbed by the prospect of discovery under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are correct.  What I can't understand is how the LIV tour started the litigation without anticipating the likelihood of a countersuit and the accompanying document requests and depositions.  Either the suit was brought by LIV execs without consulting their investors or there was some very sloppy lawyering.

[David Kelly]

My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.

I thought that they turned down LIV money because it was blood money from the Saudis and they were loyal to the PGA Tour, its history and their fellow players?  That's what they said, anyway.  What has changed? Their reparations would be coming from the same money source.  Maybe they had privately told Monahan that their loyalty came with a price, which they would cash in later.

[Ben Sims]

The most interesting analysis has been from the business insiders/experts that have taken days to respond rather the golf people that took minutes or hours. There are a significant number of articles from people that study this sort of thing opining that the “merger” portion of this has a snowballs chance of coming to fruition. I tend to agree.


What’s more likely is the DoJ still pursues the anti-trust piece of this and the PIF and PGA withdraw the “merger”, LIV dies, and the PGA gets an investor. I don’t see how either entity can risk discovery.

Can you provide a link or links to any of this analysis?

Apparently Ben and I read the some of the same blogs!


The author suggested that the deal was SO CLEARLY a red flag for antitrust issues that perhaps they are hoping to have it stopped.  Here's a taste of his view:


By ending the antitrust fight between the PGA Tour and LIV Golf, Saudi PIF emails will remain private. It’s true that there will be a merger challenge, so bad emails could come out if they bring this merger to a trial. But a more likely path is that the DOJ investigates the PGA Tour-LIV deal, the Saudis drop their merger attempt before a trial, and LIV Golf shuts down. There could be some sort of Saudi investment in the PGA Tour later. Meanwhile, everyone gets the headlines now, which obscures the reality that the Saudis don’t want emails made public, and they can blame the Antitrust Division for the collapse of LIV Golf.

Exactly.


I actually think the PIF is in a rather precarious position. Particularly as it applies to their relatively recent and aggressive investments in United States blue chips. Think about it, there’s clearly negative Saudi sentiment domestically. In the course of discovery in an American court, with the way our media works and how American consumers tend to virtue signal given the incentive (InBev anyone?), they could lose their asses in the short term if the right kind of thing is made public.


What it all comes down to: the PGA Tour has the cachet and commerce access, the PIF has the Brinks Truck. It’s like that Pet Shop Boys song, “you’ve got the brains, I’ve got the brawn; let’s make lots of money!”

[Sean_A]

My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.

I thought that they turned down LIV money because it was blood money from the Saudis and they were loyal to the PGA Tour, its history and their fellow players?  That's what they said, anyway.  What has changed? Their reparations would be coming from the same money source.  Maybe they had privately told Monahan that their loyalty came with a price, which they would cash in later.

😎

Ciao

[Tim_Cronin]

My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.

A suit to recover damages from an unaccepted offer would be laughed out of court.


As for the deal, the 11-person policy board will vote on it, not the entire membership. There are five players on the board, and six others. The players are Cantlay, Hoffman, Malnati, McIlroy and Webb Simpson. McIlroy has already indicated he'd be for it based on the early information. So say the other four players are each a no. Herlihy and Dunne are each a yes. You need two more from the other four: PGA of America's John Lindert, and Mark Flaherty, Mary Meeker and Randall Stephenson, all CEOs, active or retired. Good luck with that.

[Sean_A]

My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.

A suit to recover damages from an unaccepted offer would be laughed out of court.

As for the deal, the 11-person policy board will vote on it, not the entire membership. There are five players on the board, and six others. The players are Cantlay, Hoffman, Malnati, McIlroy and Webb Simpson. McIlroy has already indicated he'd be for it based on the early information. So say the other four players are each a no. Herlihy and Dunne are each a yes. You need two more from the other four: PGA of America's John Lindert, and Mark Flaherty, Mary Meeker and Randall Stephenson, all CEOs, active or retired. Good luck with that.

The final proposal will be massaged to an acceptable level. I have no doubt that it will pass if it proposal gets to that stage.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?

On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far. 

[Mark Pearce]

I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?

On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.

And yes, we have our own problems, before anyone feels the need to remind me.

[Thomas Dai]

Which movie or TV series does this pro golf tour saga remind you of?
I'm kinda leaning towards ....


with a dash of ........


atb

[jeffwarne]

Best commentary I've seen yet on the topic.


https://nolayingup.com/blog/the-disease-of-more

I haven't watched an NBA, NFL or MLB game in easily 5 years-no political reason, pledge or vendetta-just no interest.(maybe a glimpse at a Super Bowl-couldn't name any of the past 5 winners)

Some will go this route as far as non-major golf. Many already have.
Perhaps new fans of this entity(whatever it becomes)will fill the void or increase viewership.


Unlike other pro sports, many of us have the option to use the viewing time to PLAY more golf, rather than watch a products we(potentially) find distasteful or uninteresting.

I found my driveable dogleg years ago.(the problem is now they're mostly par 3's [size=78%])[/size]

[Rob Marshall]

The PGA has nothing to do with this, btw.

The PGA Tour, on the other hand…

PGA of AMERICA

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Thanks, Erik! I always appreciate your highly nuanced insights.

I'm sure if there was a related but entirely different organization named the ASCGAA or the ACSGA or something, people might be annoyed if their organization was wrongly linked to Saudi Arabia, even if it's just out of ignorance. And no, not everyone knows the difference.

But please, go on with your super-nuanced takes about how a commentator should resign. 

[Kalen Braley]

I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?

On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.

There are plenty of us on this side of the pond who bemoan same recent trends...

Sadly it only takes a few rotten apples in powerful positions to spoil the entire basket.

[George Pazin]

Thanks, Erik! I always appreciate your highly nuanced insights.

I'm sure if there was a related but entirely different organization named the ASCGAA or the ACSGA or something, people might be annoyed if their organization was wrongly linked to Saudi Arabia, even if it's just out of ignorance. And no, not everyone knows the difference.

But please, go on with your super-nuanced takes about how a commentator should resign. 

Since you don't seem to have actually read my posts, Erik, allow me to summarize:


I did not say these commentators SHOULD resign. I simply said I guess they WILL resign, giving their well known, loudly voiced opposition to the blood money supporting LIV Golf. I don't care what they do, I just assumed they wouldn't want to be involved with blood money (their term) themselves.


When we argued about this last year, you staunchly defended the PGA TOUR's approach of ban them and smear them as human rights violators. I simply suggested a more moderate, wait and see approach.


Given the events of this week, whose analysis do you think proved more prescient?

[Thomas Dai]

On further consideration maybe “Luca Brasi held a gun to his head, and my father assured him that either his brains on his signature would be on the contract.”

[/size]Atb[/color]

[Craig Sweet]

George, you can wait and be as moderate as you wish. That will not change the fact that the Saudi's are human rights violators and murderous thugs.   The PGA has no spine.

[Tim_Cronin]

Thanks, Erik! I always appreciate your highly nuanced insights.

I'm sure if there was a related but entirely different organization named the ASCGAA or the ACSGA or something, people might be annoyed if their organization was wrongly linked to Saudi Arabia, even if it's just out of ignorance. And no, not everyone knows the difference.

But please, go on with your super-nuanced takes about how a commentator should resign. 

I'd be surprised if more than one percent of the members of this board don't know the difference.

[Sean_A]

George, you can wait and be as moderate as you wish. That will not change the fact that the Saudi's are human rights violators and murderous thugs.   The PGA has no spine.

If you are dialing things up. Sounds similar to past US behaviour. People in glass houses....

Ciao

[Bernie Bell]

I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?

On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.

It's a two-party kakistocracy.  That's how.

[Jim Hoak]

I wish everyone would calm down and wait for the details of the agreement to come out before they make judgments.  All that we have so far is a memorandum of understanding; the agreement is subject to a lot of negotiations and detailing. And as they say, "The devil is in the details."
I have a feeling that when all is said and done that it will be seen as a win-win agreement for all parties.  The Saudis got a transaction where they can invest in Global Golf which is what they want, and the PGA Tour got needed cash--and both end an expensive litigation.  The Saudis do not get control over the Tour, but rather a say in its operation.  The LIV Tour goes away or is substantially diminished, the players return to the PGA Tour with some arrangement to compensate players who did not join LIV, and they all make more money.  The only impediment I see is some objection from the antitrust authorities.
The only big losers I see are the lesser tournaments--and the charities they support.  This is not a minor issue.  They seem to be roadkill on the way to bigger and better things for the players.