PGA to merge with LIV

[Rob Marshall]

I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........

Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.


I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns.  He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him

I don't know Brandel at all, only through occasional viewings of GC, but to say I haven't been of fan of how he's covered some things would be quite an understatement for me. To call him sanctimonious would be an insult to sanctimonious people. To call him a pretentious know-it-all would be an insult to pretentious know-it-alls.


To call him....


Well, you get the picture. I don't know how he doesn't resign immediately, assuming he has any sort of conscience. I do know I wouldn't walk into any Saudi embassies, if I were him.

I'm struggling to see why you think Brandel should resign.
The one who should resign("if he has a concience") is Jay Monahan REGARDLESS of whether or not this is a good(or more likely desperate) decision for the Tour.
If for no other reason than the money that was left on the table for players who heeded his warnings/advice and stayed loyal.


Interesting that Norman kicked his arse, yet Monahan is still in while Norman is nudged aside.


Surely this move emboldenes future wanna be competitors to this tour.
All his threats/promises were empty.
Consequences for defecting?-nope
Moral high ground? Nope-funny how that changes when they cut you in.


His double talk "empirical" "framework" jibberish press conference was embarrassing.


Clearly it is not the players tour with three suits making deals the players find out about afterwards.

Jeff, As a Pro in the metro area and from previous posts I know you knew people who died on 9/11. I did not. I’ve read numerous articles about Jimmy Dunne. If he wasn’t playing golf that day he probably would be dead along side 66 of his employees. I realize I indirectly do business with the Saudi’s everyday. We all do. But his involvement in this deal is dumbfounding to me. He wouldn’t let LIV players play in the Seminole best ball this year but he helps put this deal together? I wonder how he can look at himself in the mirror.

[Daryl David]

I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........

Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.


I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns.  He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him

I don't know Brandel at all, only through occasional viewings of GC, but to say I haven't been of fan of how he's covered some things would be quite an understatement for me. To call him sanctimonious would be an insult to sanctimonious people. To call him a pretentious know-it-all would be an insult to pretentious know-it-alls.


To call him....


Well, you get the picture. I don't know how he doesn't resign immediately, assuming he has any sort of conscience. I do know I wouldn't walk into any Saudi embassies, if I were him.

I'm struggling to see why you think Brandel should resign.
The one who should resign("if he has a concience") is Jay Monahan REGARDLESS of whether or not this is a good(or more likely desperate) decision for the Tour.
If for no other reason than the money that was left on the table for players who heeded his warnings/advice and stayed loyal.


Interesting that Norman kicked his arse, yet Monahan is still in while Norman is nudged aside.


Surely this move emboldenes future wanna be competitors to this tour.
All his threats/promises were empty.
Consequences for defecting?-nope
Moral high ground? Nope-funny how that changes when they cut you in.


His double talk "empirical" "framework" jibberish press conference was embarrassing.


Clearly it is not the players tour with three suits making deals the players find out about afterwards.

Jeff, As a Pro in the metro area and from previous posts I know you knew people who died on 9/11. I did not. I’ve read numerous articles about Jimmy Dunne. If he wasn’t playing golf that day he probably would be dead along side 66 of his employees. I realize I indirectly due business with the Saudi’s everyday. We all do. But his involvement in this deal is dumbfounding to me. He wouldn’t let LIV players play in the Seminole best ball this year but he helps put this deal together? I wonder how he can look at himself in the mirror.

It’s just business. It’s not personal.

[Tom_Doak]

Hi Tom,

Are you at liberty to share, in a high-level, generalization sort of way, how Jimmy Dunne was involved/consulted, or even had a valued opinion he shared that influenced this decision? And in a non-incriminating way, what that might have been, without getting into specifics or territorial land mine topical areas?

No problem if not. I totally understand.

He's not on the PGA Tour board, is he? If so, well, there's that.

Jim:


I have known Jimmy Dunne for 30 years -- he knows everybody in golf who's anybody -- including such key players as Greg Norman, Brooks Kopeka, Rory McIlroy, and Jay Monahan.  But I certainly don't know him well enough to know the answers to any of your questions, or have any inside information.


If I had to guess, I'd guess that Jimmy is one of the few guys out there who has the gravitas to say to all parties:  this is a divorce, eventually you're going to have to settle.  Why pay millions to the lawyers to get to the same place?  If you were the PGA TOUR, why would you risk your entire existence in legal discovery?  If you were the Saudi royal family, why would you go through a process that requires legal discovery?  There was way too much risk being taken by each side, and that was not good for the power players or for the sport.  [But, let's face it, neither of these parties has the best interests of the game of golf in mind.]


I am just surprised that he was willing to get involved because of what happened to his firm on 9/11.  But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis.  No President has ever even suggested such a thing.  We have looked the other way, with laser focus. 

[Tim Martin]

I also have to think that Koepka's success had at least a minor role in this.

Jeff-I thought the same thing about Koepka’s last two Major performances. A second at the Masters and a win at the PGA was Monahan and the Tour’s worst nightmare. Further I don’t necessarily believe the seven week timeline for the negotiations that was described by the people that made the deal.

[Tom_Doak]

I also have to think that Koepka's success had at least a minor role in this.

Jeff-I thought the same thing about Koepka’s last two Major performances. A second at the Masters and a win at the PGA was Monahan and the Tour’s worst nightmare. Further I don’t necessarily believe the seven week timeline for the negotiations that was described by the people that made the deal.

I do think this was a factor.  Brooks's success made it much harder for Augusta National, the PGA of America, the USGA and the R & A to follow through with rewriting their qualifications process to further disqualify the LIV guys.  And throughout this whole ordeal, the PGA TOUR has been posturing as if the majors are part of the PGA TOUR.  If those four independent bodies weren't going to do what Jay Monahan hoped they would do, his position was far weaker.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Bobby Axelrod is loosely based on Steve Cohen, not Jimmy Dunne.

Thank you for the correction.

[Dan_Callahan]

If you were the PGA TOUR, why would you risk your entire existence in legal discovery?

If you are a golfer trying to reach the pinnacle of the game by qualifying for the US Open, why DQ yourself for fixing an aeration hole that nobody saw?


Call me naive, but I have always seen golf as being different from all other sports because it put integrity above winning.


I would rather see the PGA run itself into bankrupt nonexistence in an impossible fight against infinite Saudi wealth than make the “smart business decision” and capitulate. I hope the players revolt.

[Greg Hohman]

“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis.  No President has ever even suggested such a thing.  We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”


Tom, not so. Look it up.

[Edward Glidewell]

While I don't really care about Brandel Chamblee one way or another, I'm not sure I follow your logic here. The Golf Channel isn't owned by the PGA Tour.

The PGA Tour could say something like - unless you get rid of Brandel we are going to make your life difficult.  Sure you still have several years left on your contract with us, but we will strictly follow the letter of the law on the contract and cut back access to players, facilities, etc, unless it is specifically allowed in the contract.  And when the contract is up there is zero chance that we will renew it with you.  And we will put pressure on Comcast, your corporate owner, as well.

Sure, but that's basically the opposite of what he was saying. He was suggesting Brandel is a hypocrite if he doesn't resign, not that the PGA Tour would force him out.

[Sean_A]

George,


   You are smarter than this.

I guess not. Did I miss something while working, did Brandel resign? That's the only way I'd say he stood by his guns. Criticising from within isn't standing by your guns, imho, but as another poster on this very thread used to say, that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

All I said from the beginning was, it's professional golf. It's not life or death. All of us have had much more experience with life or death than pro golf.

Having said that, I would caution Brandel not to walk into any Saudi embassies.....

True George. The hyperbole about dishonoring the game etc is sickening. Once folks strip out their personal moral outrage we can get at the heart of the matter.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

While I don't really care about Brandel Chamblee one way or another, I'm not sure I follow your logic here. The Golf Channel isn't owned by the PGA Tour.

The PGA Tour could say something like - unless you get rid of Brandel we are going to make your life difficult.  Sure you still have several years left on your contract with us, but we will strictly follow the letter of the law on the contract and cut back access to players, facilities, etc, unless it is specifically allowed in the contract.  And when the contract is up there is zero chance that we will renew it with you.  And we will put pressure on Comcast, your corporate owner, as well.

Yep. No Tour no Golf Channel.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

If you were the PGA TOUR, why would you risk your entire existence in legal discovery?

If you are a golfer trying to reach the pinnacle of the game by qualifying for the US Open, why DQ yourself for fixing an aeration hole that nobody saw?


Call me naive, but I have always seen golf as being different from all other sports because it put integrity above winning.


I would rather see the PGA run itself into bankrupt nonexistence in an impossible fight against infinite Saudi wealth than make the “smart business decision” and capitulate. I hope the players revolt.

You may want the Tour bankrupted. The players may think very differently.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis.  No President has ever even suggested such a thing.  We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”


Tom, not so. Look it up.

There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Good for golf fans.  Once again, the best players in the world will compete against each other.

Maybe- They already did at the majors, and not sure how often they will now anyway.
It remains to be seen what will be produced, what formats, and if fans are looking for what they are describing. Very few even bothered to watch LIV, so why are we clamoring for what they may or may not bring to the table?


Good for professionals as purses will grow.

Perhaps purses will grow-it again remains to be seen it's it's good for professional golf.
Reputations and integrity have a worth as well.
Also, now that there is a monopoly again, it may not be so good for players, or at least some.
I was listening to a host on SiriusXM talking about how great it would be to see, and many more would watch, the top 50 players in the world competing in a $50 million event.
Do people really watch more because of the purse?
I guess I'm a geek but I'd rather watch the Top 50 on a great course for a smaller purse, than a TPC Waterclad mess for $50 million. Don't a lot of people watch the Ryder Cup where's there's no purse?


Good for competition, as the tour can experiment with new formats and team play.

Maybe-if you're into that sort've thing. Did anyone watch New Orleans?but I'll give you the RC is fun to watch-a steady diet? maybe...


Good for the golf press.  Controversy make great stories.

100%-already has been-I for one am sooooo glad our show is NOT live this week as we taped last Friday(our producer is on vacation this week) I prefer to stick to instruction and there's no chance I could say anything on air that hasn't already been said by Saturday. Ironically, my show co-host David Armitage had a meeting with Norman literally minutes after we taped last Friday.


Unfortunate that some Tour players feel bad because they missed an opportunity for big bucks, but they won’t starve.

Very true, and Monahan should resign over this, even if he was painted into his own corner. There are winners and losers-he can't be rewarded as a winner after his two year stance then capitulation.

Tour leadership is left looking bad, agreeing to merge after a year long PR smear campaign against LIV.

Yes they are, and leading a failed strategy should not result in enrichment for leaders of such strategy-even if Monahan had no good choices at any point

For the life of me I can't see why Dunne would wade in, but some people are addicted to power.

[Peter Sayegh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGpOk6Rh9k

I was waiting for tour player reactions to the news. As usual, McIlroy stepped up-in person. Good on him.

He acknowledged the deal may be beneficial to the professional golfer, but refrained from saying it "was good for golf."

Frankly, does this news change your golf viewing habits, your next tee time, or your affection for playing?

[Greg Hohman]

“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis.  No President has ever even suggested such a thing.  We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”


Tom, not so. Look it up.

There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.

Ciao

I mean less than definitive proof, more than suggestions.

[Rob Marshall]

“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis.  No President has ever even suggested such a thing.  We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”


Tom, not so. Look it up.

There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.

Ciao

Maybe…..more than a suggestion


https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9-

[Sean_A]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGpOk6Rh9k

I was waiting for tour player reactions to the news. As usual, McIlroy stepped up-in person. Good on him.

He acknowledged the deal may be beneficial to the professional golfer, but refrained from saying it "was good for golf."

Frankly, does this news change your golf viewing habits, your next tee time, or your affection for playing?

No. I don't believe it has any effect on the game either. As for pros, in the short term it helps some and hurts others. Long term, who knows.

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGpOk6Rh9k

I was waiting for tour player reactions to the news. As usual, McIlroy stepped up-in person. Good on him.

He acknowledged the deal may be beneficial to the professional golfer, but refrained from saying it "was good for golf."

Frankly, does this news change your golf viewing habits, your next tee time, or your affection for playing?

No. I don't believe it has any effect on the game either. As for pros, in the short term it helps some and hurts others. Long term, who knows.

Ciao

Cricket has gone through this before pyjama cricket in the 80s and its now the most popular in terms of spectators - will they have a shorter version of tour golf to be appealing for the young fans?

[George Pazin]

  PS...In full disclosure, he's a partner of mine in a soon-to-be launched golf entertainment company. I know, and respect, him quite a bit.

I'm happy to hear this. And I'll admit, I'm harder on Brandel than he likely deserves.


-----


For the handful of posters who ask why I feel Brandel (and others, I don't recall him being the only one) should resign, my logic is simple (though that doesn't mean it's right, I have no problem with those who disagree, this is a discussion site, after all):


My recollection is that he has made it quite clear that anyone involved with the Saudis in any fashion is taking blood money. While Golf Channel is not owned by the PGA Tour, they will be quite clearly fully in business with the Saudis, assuming this goes through and they maintain their relationship with the new entity. Brandel does not do much other golf-related things like instruction, history, architecture, etc (at least not that I've seen, though I will also admit I don't watch much anymore). He is paid to comment on the pro game. He will be intimately involved in working with the Saudis.


Now, I don't care about that. But he has been pretty clear that he does. If he were an independent person - podcaster, writer, whatever - I'd say he'd be well within his sphere to continue his punditry. To work for GC and be involved with their intimate relationship with pro golf, I think he's doing the very thing he has been quite mercilessly calling out others for doing.


As for the whole big thing, the world's got more than 99 real problems, and Saudis pouring money into pro golf ain't one of 'em......


 

[Sean_A]

“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis.  No President has ever even suggested such a thing.  We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”


Tom, not so. Look it up.

There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.

Ciao

Maybe…..more than a suggestion


https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9-

Thanks. I knew about this release. Doesn't convince me of complicity. I will stick with more of a due process way of thinking.


Ciao

[jeffwarne]

  PS...In full disclosure, he's a partner of mine in a soon-to-be launched golf entertainment company. I know, and respect, him quite a bit.

I'm happy to hear this. And I'll admit, I'm harder on Brandel than he likely deserves.


-----


For the handful of posters who ask why I feel Brandel (and others, I don't recall him being the only one) should resign, my logic is simple (though that doesn't mean it's right, I have no problem with those who disagree, this is a discussion site, after all):


My recollection is that he has made it quite clear that anyone involved with the Saudis in any fashion is taking blood money. While Golf Channel is not owned by the PGA Tour, they will be quite clearly fully in business with the Saudis, assuming this goes through and they maintain their relationship with the new entity. Brandel does not do much other golf-related things like instruction, history, architecture, etc (at least not that I've seen, though I will also admit I don't watch much anymore). He is paid to comment on the pro game. He will be intimately involved in working with the Saudis.


Now, I don't care about that. But he has been pretty clear that he does. If he were an independent person - podcaster, writer, whatever - I'd say he'd be well within his sphere to continue his punditry. To work for GC and be involved with their intimate relationship with pro golf, I think he's doing the very thing he has been quite mercilessly calling out others for doing.


As for the whole big thing, the world's got more than 99 real problems, and Saudis pouring money into pro golf ain't one of 'em......


 

Again, what has Brandel done to warrant resignation since this was announced?
No one even knows what the deal entails. (a "framework" agreement-what a bullshit way to say nothing other than we've lost and made a decision for you)
If he is asked to glorify the Saudi regime or comment positively on the golf events and sponsors, perhaps then he would out of protest.
He works for The Golf Channel, not the PGA Tour or the new entity-at least for the moment.


I often don't agree with Brandel's sometimes dogmatic take on the golf swing(he does go there), but he is a dedicated researcher and he does his homework.He frequently comments on golf history and architecture as well.
I respect that he speaks his mind, even if I don't always agree with him.
Maybe he will resign in time if he feels he is not allowed to speak his mind or if the new entity.


But until he becomes a "hypocrite" like Monahan, I see no reason for Brandel to resign.
So far, he has remained true to himself, unlike Monahan, who should resign.(even if he was in a no win situation)

[George Pazin]

Again, what has Brandel done to warrant resignation since this was announced?
No one even knows what the deal entails. (a "framework" agreement-what a bullshit way to say nothing other than we've lost and made a decision for you)
If he is asked to glorify the Saudi regime or comment positively on the golf events and sponsors, perhaps then he would out of protest.
He works for The Golf Channel, not the PGA Tour or the new entity-at least for the moment.

I don't know if I can explain it more clearly than last time, but I'll try. And I'll concede that I don't know the details of the deal, obviously, or when it will be finalized.


Brandel (and others) have stated that anyone involved with the Saudis is taking blood money. So now the PGA Tour and DP World Tour are taking blood money. Golf Channel has a deal to televise these, so they are now involved with the Saudis. GC pays Brandel (and others). I will also concede that the relationship is not as direct as the LIV golfers and admin. But it's hard for me to see Brandel as independent of the Saudis, even if he continues to criticise them. The company he works for will have direct business relationships with them. As direct as the golfers? No, but I'm not the one calling any of this blood money, the many vocal critics at GC are the ones who have characterized it this way.


I will lastly point out that in my initial post, I did not call out Brandel personally, I spoke more generally, as my recollection is that virtually all of GC's pundits - heck, many PGA players, too - went after Phil, Greg N, etc., very hard as acting immorally. It's hard for me to imagine any of them being involved in this facet of pro golf going forward.

[Anthony Butler]

From today's NYT:
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.

“All of those golfers that remain ‘loyal’ to the very disloyal PGA,” Trump wrote in an online post last summer, “will pay a big price when the inevitable merger with LIV comes, and you get nothing but a big ‘thank you’ from PGA officials.” Now Trump stands to benefit from the merger. The PGA Tour suddenly seems more likely to hold events at his courses.

Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.

I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?

Can we keep the Newsmax talking points off this thread?


Joe Biden might be old AF but he still got the better of Kevin McCarthy in the debt negotiations.. I guess it all depends with what IQ you started out with...

The reason Trump 'got it right' is that he always presumes that people are similarly motived as him - by pure greed. In this case, Monahan, the investment banker whose headquarters were destroyed in 9/11 and the Saudi's law firm representative on the Tour Board went for the $$$ and hope everyone else does the same.

[Tim Martin]

Brandel is too entrenched in his position to stay at the Golf Channel. The on air talent will be given marching orders to back off any sustained criticism as it relates to the deal and a new set of talking points will be developed. As has been previously mentioned there is no Golf Channel without men’s professional golf. Finally every missive I’ve read has Monahan being a complete sellout and getting gamed by the Saudis so I also think he goes albeit with a fat golden parachute.