How much does location contribute to a course's reputation?

[John Kavanaugh]

I still remember the fit thrown by Wigler when his beloved Plum Hollow was urban shamed. Wigs shamed that dude.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy,


I think about this often when playing a course... and ask myself where would this course rank on Long Island?

I've thought about it another way. If X course were not on Long Island but in MD, where would it rank? Long Island is embarrassingly golf rich.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I always believed that Goswick would have been better known and attract far more visitor play if it was a few miles further North and in East Lothian rather than Northumberland.  However, I heard a rumour as to green fee income last year, which suggests that their recent marketing activities are working wonders.....

Would the greens fee income from last year be driven by extremely high demand in the bounceback from Covid?  Weren't a lot of courses sold out to visitors in 2022?  Apparently several high profile UK courses are sold out for visitors slots for 2023.

[Kalen Braley]

Tommy,

I think about this often when playing a course... and ask myself where would this course rank on Long Island?

I've thought about it another way. If X course were not on Long Island but in MD, where would it rank? Long Island is embarrassingly golf rich.

Tommy,

I think this really drives home the point that this issue can go both ways:

- If there are too many other top notch courses around an otherwise "gem" might get relatively little attention that it would if it stood alone.

- But at the same time, an argument could be made a remote course gets little attention because its so little known, but would get the recognition it "deserves" if it was in a more prominent spot.

I have no idea how this can be properly assessed or accounted for...

[Ira Fishman]

Courses from great golf areas if were in DC area (largely a wasteland): Knollwood (Chicago) and Century (NY Met) both would be top 5 or better in DC area.


Remote that would get more recognition if not so remote: Primland. But it would be a challenge to move the Blue Ridge Mountains.


Thought experiment that intrigues me: Bandon Resort to Eastern Long Island. I have played only Friar’s Head, but I think it is better than any of the Bandon courses, although not by much compared to BT and PD. But think about all five Bandon courses in the company of also NGLA, Shinnecock, Maidstone, and Sebonack.


Fun if purely hypothetical exercise.


Ira

[Ian Mackenzie]

I played Lawsonia with a noted "panelist" in June of 2021.


Upon completing the round, he commented,


"If Lawsonia was on eastern Long Island and had a $2m+ maintenance budget, it would be Top 50 in the world".

[David Wuthrich]

I can tell you location has a *huge* effect on the rankings.


Some examples:


Swap out the 18 holes at Morfontaine for the 18 holes at St. George's Hill.  Is the Morfontaine course going to stand out in Surrey?  Is not St. George's Hill going to blow away everything in Europe?

I agree with Tom.  I try not to let the location determine my like of the course.  Sometimes that is easier than others!

I agree with Tom, it has a lot to do with how people look at the course, right or wrong.  I try not to let the location make a difference in how I look at the course, but that is sometimes hard to do.


Or, take my two best recent courses, Tara Iti and St. Patrick's.  Tara Iti was quickly rated #1 in New Zealand, whereas no matter how good St. Patrick's is, it won't be ranked ahead of Portrush or County Down or Ballybunion for a decade or more.  Now, if you swapped them and put St. Patrick's in NZ and Tara Iti in Ireland, do you think they'd be ranked the same?


There are so so many of these effects throughout the rankings that it makes them impossible.  And that's why I much prefer just calling the course a 7 or an 8 and leaving it at that.  Even in the Doak Scale there are small adjustments for location . . . sometimes I might rate the best of the 5's in one spot a 6, to state a preference, even though it might not hold up with all the 6's in Philadelphia.  Bias is inevitable.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Mark


I think you are probably correct about Goswick although in terms of marketing, I wonder if the various golfing blogs and your own comments on here haven't raised it's profile more than any advertising. Question: if Goswick were in East Lothian, where would you rank it among the courses up there ?


Niall

Similarly, if Silloth was in Southport where would it rank among the courses there?


I’d put it at no 2 behind  Birkdale. It would certainly command more than the current £90 per round green fee and £625 annual membership subscription!