[Wayne_Kozun]

Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).

I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 

I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

It's easy to blame Americans for everything - and they are the primary target, no doubt - but let's not forget the developer of this project is from Canada.


There are a couple of reasons why they are going to this model.  One, it takes a LOT of $$$$ to develop a new course nowadays, and you don't make it back easily just from selling green fees, even if those green fees are $300.  You make it back more efficiently if you can also sell those people their lodging and dinner at prices that are marked up for the convenience.  The reason to build a second course at Cabot Highlands is (a) to get people to stay there to play both courses, and (b) to get people to stay there their whole trip and shuttle them over to Dornoch or Nairn or wherever else they want to play.


The second thing is, you can't drink and drive anymore, so you can only enjoy the post-round pub life adjacent to where you are staying.  Golf clubs used to be able to count on at minimum selling each golfer a couple of beers after they played, but that doesn't work anymore unless you are very close to where they are staying.  So the business model is to provide it all in once place.  One of the reasons golfers enjoy Bandon so much is that they never have to think about any of that!


I do understand your point that this prevents you from interacting with the locals, but not entirely.  All of the staff at Castle Stuart are locals and you have the same conversations with them that you would in a pub down the road.  The question is whether you also get to interact with local golfers, and the rising price of golf is certainly a factor in stratifying the market.


P.S.  None of that is a "golf question".  At some point, hopefully, the discussion comes back to whether the new golf course is worth the trip to play.  It's a bit early for that.

I imagine that they also hope to earn back the return on investment by selling those cottages on the property.  Isn't real estate sales where you earn a big part of the return?  Either as seasonal homes or investment properties - the Cabot Cape Breton 4 bedroom golf villas rent for about C$3100/night (US$2500) in the high season.

[Adam Lawrence]

You are thinking about this as a local golfer who is playing the course for the day and heading out.  Consider a golfer staying onsite.

Once you have significant onsite accomodations, as they are doing with the cottages, then you will need a clubhouse with more food and beverage options.  Golfers staying onsite will want to be able to get everything right at the resort, especially if they are playing 36 holes per day.  That is the case at high end golf resorts here in North America, like Cabot Cape Breton, Streamsong, Bandon, etc.
Those resorts are set up so that you can visit for several days and never leave the property, and in some of those resorts there are very few options for eating nearby.  That is less likely to be the case at a place like Castle Stuart, where golfers will likely be traveling to other golf courses, but some golfers may use it as a home base for a few days in the Inverness region while playing Dornoch, Nairn, etc.  So once they are done for the day and come back to their home base at the resort they will want to be able to get a nice meal at the resort, and a bar to have a few drinks and a good time after dinner.

I note the use of the word “resort” 6 times in the explanation provided (I’m on the ferry from Oban to Craignure so I had time to count lol).


I think that’s my angst with the concept. The rush to export the US resort model as if that is the only way one can enjoy golf. 

I mean why visit Scotland, venture out after golf, and check out local things in another country when you can simply hole-up in your fortress Americana.

It isn't like this is just an American/Canadian thing.  One of the earliest golf resorts would be Gleneagles which opened 99 years ago.  And Cabot is in the business of building and operating world class golf courses with attached resorts.  That was their original model in Cape Breton, and they are exporting that model to St. Lucia, Florida (Citrus Farms), the Scottish Highlands and the BC Rocky Mountains.

So far as I can see, the first golf resort in the world was Rosapenna in County Donegal, opened in 1893.

[Mike Worth]

Yes, obviously there are already resorts in the UK and Ireland. Are more needed?


And I was at Gleneagles this week, although I did not stay at the resort. Same for Rosepenna last year.  The golf was excellent but I didn’t need all the resort special handling.  And yes, I’m well aware I didn’t have to go at all. It’s a choice.


On a sidenote, and not sarcastically, I had a brief and friendly conversation with one of the staff at Gleneagles.  In respose to his question, I agreed the electric carts were well staged in front of the main building. I complemented him, said the line of carts was quite straight, and that he would’ve made it in America. Lol.


But more seriously, not all resorts are bad.  I visited Nova Scotia 2 years ago and thought Cabot Cape Breton made perfect sense.  There is a paucity of lodging in that area.


 

[Jeff Schley]

I don't see all the evil angles arising from a privately owned course, which is very good and yes expensive, building a 2nd course and lodging on site? Isn't this what golfers want, more courses? Because they don't have the traditional cheap local membership option as most UK clubs do?
It is privately owned and publicly accessible, albeit for a price. Good for us and build away as the land looks good when I was there.

[Thomas Dai]

I believe Rosapenna in Donegal, RoI, claims to be the first golf resort.
Back in time when it first opened it was in what was then part of the U.K.
Atb

[Adam Lawrence]

I believe Rosapenna in Donegal, RoI, claims to be the first golf resort.
Back in time when it first opened it was in what was then part of the U.K.
Atb

Not reading the preceding posts then David? 

[Brian_Ewen]

Tom Doak’s New Golf Course Design In Scotland Features A Very Rare Routing Element
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2023/07/28/tom-doaks-new-golf-course-design-in-scotland-features-a-very-rare-routing-element/

[David_Tepper]

Speaking of Scottish golf resorts, don't forget Machrihanish Dunes.

https://machrihanishdunes.com/
 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Speaking of Scottish golf resorts, don't forget Machrihanish Dunes.

https://machrihanishdunes.com/

Anyone know what the status is with the second course?

[Adam Lawrence]

Speaking of Scottish golf resorts, don't forget Machrihanish Dunes.

https://machrihanishdunes.com/

Anyone know what the status is with the second course?

I can't find any evidence that a planning application has gone in yet.

[Marty Bonnar]

https://publicaccess.argyll-bute.gov.uk/online-applications/caseDetails.do?caseType=Application&keyVal=RQ1621CHG9900

There you go.
F.

[Adam Lawrence]

Marty is better at searching that planning engine than I am!

(edited to add): Just had a review of the documents. The site masterplan was drawn by Paul Kimber of Kimber and Glen (who was, of course, David Kidd's lead associate on the construction of the original Machrihanish Dunes course).

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