OT. Pickleball and country clubs

[Jason Connor]

I'm glad my tennis club is all clay courts -- so we don't have folks wanting to take courts for pickle ball.

[Sean_A]

I have never heard of pickle, paddle or padel 🙈.

Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

By this summer we will have 32 Pickelball courts at Palmetto Dunes in Hilton Head.  We currently have 24 and most days they are all full.  The sport is crazy popular with players even traveling from 30 minutes off the island to play in our daily round robin events etc. 


As a former tennis player in college I didn’t think I would like the game but am now hooked.  At a high level it is a fantastic workout.   

[Mark Pearce]

I'm waiting for the golf course architecture element of this discussion to kick in.....

[Mark_Fine]

Mark,
There is actually a golf course architecture issue with Pickelball and that is the noise. I currently have a design project at a private club in the Poconos in PA and there is a big debate about putting in Pickelball courts because the location selected would be near the first and tenth tees and many of the golfers don’t want to hear the noise.  I will be addressing this in the new Master Plan for the renovation of the course.  Noise with Pickelball can/does impact golf.

[Mike Bodo]

Question. Is this a sport that's here to stay or is it fad that will eventually diminish in popularity as older generations die off? My concern is if young people don't embrace pickleball in significant numbers, what becomes of all the infrastructure being built to accommodate play? Do they become shuffleboard courts? LOL!

[David_Tepper]

"Question. Is this a sport that's here to stay or is it fad that will eventually diminish in popularity as older generations die off?"

Time will tell.  Hundreds, if not thousands, of bowling alleys have closed over the past 20-30 years.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/

[Kalen Braley]

I agree with David, its way way too early to tell.  But worse case scenario, they just reconvert all those pickle ball courts back to Tennis.     Probably doesn't help that it's already running into interference with local govts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jIaxJunjCI&t=71s

P.S. On a personal level, I love Ping Pong but never took to Tennis.. and from what i've seen its an intriguing in-between

[David Cronan]

I live in a high-rise in FL and we had 2 tennis courts; one has been turned into a pickleball court and the other is for tennis. My better half and I play tennis and we are in the minority. Pickleball court is busy with play (particularly in the mornings) and they are hosting an all day event this Saturday with food, tournaments and professional instruction as a way of introducing to those that haven't joined in on the fun yet.


I will say this. Those that are playing are both older (55 and above) and in pretty damn good shape. I've asked some of my neighbors if they converted from tennis and all, without an exception, said they have done so. My follow up question regarding if they still play tennis is met with a solid "no" from most, and from those who say they still play tennis, say that their participation in tennis has dropped off dramatically.


It's played outdoors, easier on the joints, can get a good workout in an hour, played in pairs......sounds like a winning combination for most......

[Kalen Braley]

Found another article with this:

Studies have been undertaken to measure the sound levels associated with pickleball and average sounds have come to around 70 dBA. This scale of sound measurement, is a weighted decibel scale which gives the relative loudness of sounds in air as perceived by the human ear. Exposure to sounds of more than 80 dBA needs to be avoided while anything above 90 dBA is considered dangerous to the human ear.

Tennis, for instance, gives out 40 dBA sounds, which makes it eight times softer than pickleball sounds, making it so much more difficult for residents to endure.

https://racketsportsworld.com/pickleball-noise-issues-why-is-it-a-problem-what-can-be-done-to-overcome/#:~:text=Studies%20have%20been%20undertaken%20to,perceived%20by%20the%20human%20ear.

[Mike Bodo]

Hundreds, if not thousands, of bowling alleys have closed over the past 20-30 years.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/

I've personally witnessed the demise of three of the four bowling alleys in our area go out of business the past 15 years. The most recent being a place down the road from my office where I bowled in a league for a span of five years. It's in the process of being converted into a TESLA dealership. This is what happens to sports when they no longer attract enough of a younger audience to fill the vacancies left behind by older generations.

[Steve Lapper]

Hundreds, if not thousands, of bowling alleys have closed over the past 20-30 years.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/

I've personally witnessed the demise of three of the four bowling alleys in our area go out of business the past 15 years. The most recent being a place down the road from my office where I bowled in a league for a span of five years. It's in the process of being converted into a TESLA dealership. This is what happens to sports when they no longer attract enough of a younger audience to fill the vacancies left behind by older generations.

Bowling alleys have indeed seen a reduction in count, yet more importantly a consolidation. Those that invested in newer technology,  experiential entertainment features and better F&B offerings  have survived quite nicely and many have been swallowed up by Bowlero Corp, a publicly-listed entity that is growing incredibly well. We will see something similar in the off-course golf entertainment field. The likes of a TopGolf will eventually subsume a Driveshack, etc....


Pickleball is a wholly different dynamic. It is game growing virally across a national footprint, needing no more than 2100sf to exist and a super low cost to play. It is popular with a very wide spectrum of ages (rare) and doesn't require hours upon hours to play. When combined, all of this screams explosive growth and reasonably long sustainability. Ultimately, few clubs will be able to resist the pull to build more courts...especially as membership retention becomes more important. Lastly, as a guy with artificial knees and a lifetime of orthopedic donations, it is a sport that is far, far easier and safer to enjoy vs. tennis, paddle tennis and padel.

[Mike Bodo]

Bowling alleys have indeed seen a reduction in count, yet more importantly a consolidation. Those that invested in newer technology,  experiential entertainment features and better F&B offerings  have survived quite nicely and many have been swallowed up by Bowlero Corp, a publicly-listed entity that is growing incredibly well. We will see something similar in the off-course golf entertainment field. The likes of a TopGolf will eventually subsume a Driveshack, etc....

Funny you mentin Bowlero Corp., as they purchased the lone remaining bowling alley in the Ann Arbor - Ypsi area several years ago and converted it to something akin to bowling alley, meets Dave and Busters, meets Chucky Cheese. LOL! It's doing great and we held our company's holiday party there last Dec. and rented the private room they have with four alley's, sofas, T.V.'s and the whole nine yards. We had blast and the food there was pretty good.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Only negative in my experience is the Achilles/calf injuries we had early on.  Each of us now knows that it is a good idea to stretch well before playing. 

Yikes...I jinxed my friend.  Torn Achilles yesterday morning. 

[Jason Topp]

Question. Is this a sport that's here to stay or is it fad that will eventually diminish in popularity as older generations die off? My concern is if young people don't embrace pickleball in significant numbers, what becomes of all the infrastructure being built to accommodate play? Do they become shuffleboard courts? LOL!

Most courts I have seen are one empty tennis court converted into four busy pickelball courts.


The injury problem is a real one.  Those who suggest it is a safe alternative to tennis probably are wrong - at least according to my wife's orthopapod.


Last week I had my first experience of hearing pickelball on a golf course.  It is not the most pleasant sound when lining up a putt to finish off a round.  There will be disputes at clubs related to this issue.

[John Kavanaugh]

Elders need the noise of the pickleball to help determine where the ball is coming from and its speed. None of us would want to play golf with a silent ball. Sound is an essential component of feel.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Elders need the noise of the pickleball to help determine where the ball is coming from and its speed. None of us would want to play golf with a silent ball. Sound is an essential component of feel.

You're right about sound, but friends that live across the street from converted tennis courts hate the noise.

[John Kavanaugh]

Elders need the noise of the pickleball to help determine where the ball is coming from and its speed. None of us would want to play golf with a silent ball. Sound is an essential component of feel.

You're right about sound, but friends that live across the street from converted tennis courts hate the noise.

We are looking at homes. Thanks for the great advice. I would have thought near the courts was a good thing. Oops.

[Daryl David]

I have never heard of pickle, paddle or padel 🙈.

Ciao

Wow. Remove rock from overhead. 

[David_Tepper]

"Pickleball's latest court? The prison yard."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/02/22/pickleball-prison/

[Phil Burr]

As a preface, I’ve never played pickleball.  There are four city courts less than 50 yards from my house and I’ve never heard noise I would consider objectionable.
Isn’t the purpose of a country club to provide a place for people to socialize and engage in various recreational pursuits ranging from golf to tennis, from swimming to…pickleball?  It’s absurd to me as a member of such a club to complain about the noises associated with these pursuits.  Are we going to stop our children from shrieking with joy as they jump off the diving board?  Are we going to re-engineer the diving board to eliminate its reverberations?  Disallow splashing?  Are we going to limit the number of cars driving on roads adjoining our clubs because they make too much noise?  C’mon everyone.  Pickleball will probably develop noise-deadening rackets and a softer ball without degrading the game.  Until then, let’s play our golf while absorbing the audible profanities from our playing partners.  Allow our non-golfing fellow members to enjoy their favorite activity and meet them socially afterwards.

[Steve Lapper]

As a preface, I’ve never played pickleball.  There are four city courts less than 50 yards from my house and I’ve never heard noise I would consider objectionable.
Isn’t the purpose of a country club to provide a place for people to socialize and engage in various recreational pursuits ranging from golf to tennis, from swimming to…pickleball?  It’s absurd to me as a member of such a club to complain about the noises associated with these pursuits.  Are we going to stop our children from shrieking with joy as they jump off the diving board?  Are we going to re-engineer the diving board to eliminate its reverberations?  Disallow splashing?  Are we going to limit the number of cars driving on roads adjoining our clubs because they make too much noise?  C’mon everyone.  Pickleball will probably develop noise-deadening rackets and a softer ball without degrading the game.  Until then, let’s play our golf while absorbing the audible profanities from our playing partners.  Allow our non-golfing fellow members to enjoy their favorite activity and meet them socially afterwards.

+1

[Mike Hendren]

During the Second Great Awakening legislation in Philadelphia required chains to be extended across streets in front of churches during the hours of Sunday worship to ensure quiet.  Lock them up!

[Tommy Williamsen]

As a preface, I’ve never played pickleball.  There are four city courts less than 50 yards from my house and I’ve never heard noise I would consider objectionable.
Isn’t the purpose of a country club to provide a place for people to socialize and engage in various recreational pursuits ranging from golf to tennis, from swimming to…pickleball?  It’s absurd to me as a member of such a club to complain about the noises associated with these pursuits.  Are we going to stop our children from shrieking with joy as they jump off the diving board?  Are we going to re-engineer the diving board to eliminate its reverberations?  Disallow splashing?  Are we going to limit the number of cars driving on roads adjoining our clubs because they make too much noise?  C’mon everyone.  Pickleball will probably develop noise-deadening rackets and a softer ball without degrading the game.  Until then, let’s play our golf while absorbing the audible profanities from our playing partners.  Allow our non-golfing fellow members to enjoy their favorite activity and meet them socially afterwards.

I understand what you are saying, but you do not get to determine what noise is bothersome to someone else.

[Mike_Young]

I'm waiting for the golf course architecture element of this discussion to kick in.....

The modern driver is the "pickleball"of golf.