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Kalen Braley

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2023, 08:49:50 PM »
Britannica's definition is a fair bit nuanced, for example it lists soccer as both a game and sport...depending on how one is engaged in it. Thier basic definition is: "Is it for fun or competition"


Games and sports are very similar: a game is a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure. A sport is a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other.

The difference is subtle. A game is any mental or physical activity with rules that is done for fun, such as physical activities like baseball and soccer, or board games such as chess and Monopoly, or card games, or electronic games (like apps), or video games. Sports are specific physical activities one can compete in such as baseball, soccer, football, field hockey, running, cycling, rock climbing, swimming, diving, race car driving, kayaking, or weight lifting.


https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/eb/qa/What-Is-the-Difference-between-Games-and-Sports#:~:text=Games%20and%20sports%20are%20very,and%20compete%20against%20each%20other.



Kyle Harris

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2023, 08:59:44 PM »
To the OP:


Golf as a sport is where the whole angles and strategy and just trying to overcome things in your way lives.


Think about it, you’re giving the golf course a sporting chance by taking a riskier road. Or giving it a sporting chance by ameliorating risk for a more difficult short down the line.


Golf as a game is where you’re trying to optimize (that’s the simulated conflict, be it against an arbitrary opponent like par or an actual opponent in a match or field) those strokes.


Look at how we use the terms SPORTSMANSHIP (ensuring a fair opportunity to strike back) v. GAMESMANSHIP (manipulating or even outright cheating the conflict to gain an advantage).
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Brent Carlson

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2023, 09:09:22 PM »
You don't have to be athletic to play golf.
You do to play it well. I've seen plenty of "non-athletic" people playing all kinds of sports recreationally.


There are plenty of unathletic tour players.  Coming from more traditional sports I'd like to see a guy run a 4.6 40, dunk a basketball two handed at 6 feet, etc.  These are what I would consider athletic.  Excellent golfers don't have to be athletic in my experience.  That's why I laugh at comparisons saying Koepka is an NFL linebacker.  He wouldn't last a minute in the NFL.

Max Prokopy

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2023, 09:09:37 PM »


You don't have to be athletic to play golf.  You do have to be coordinated.  That's where I draw the difference.


All due respect, coordination is athleticism when put in the context of an event that takes 4+ hours, includes some physical endurance and other physiological demands/constraints.  Squaring the clubface over and over again, which might be closing at up to 2000 degrees/second around impact, on hilly lies, in wind, heat, morning, evening...that is athleticism. 


One needn't be athletic to enjoy golf, but one does need the sport-specific athleticism to score well.

Max Prokopy

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2023, 09:12:24 PM »
You don't have to be athletic to play golf.
You do to play it well. I've seen plenty of "non-athletic" people playing all kinds of sports recreationally.


There are plenty of unathletic tour players.  Coming from more traditional sports I'd like to see a guy run a 4.6 40, dunk a basketball two handed at 6 feet, etc.  These are what I would consider athletic.  Excellent golfers don't have to be athletic in my experience.  That's why I laugh at comparisons saying Koepka is an NFL linebacker.  He wouldn't last a minute in the NFL.


And they wouldn't last a minute on tour.  Your definition of athleticism is of course up to you...but from the objective assessments of neurology and physiology, yours is far too narrow to account for what's out there competing in any number of sports. 

Brent Carlson

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2023, 09:17:08 PM »
You don't have to be athletic to play golf.
You do to play it well. I've seen plenty of "non-athletic" people playing all kinds of sports recreationally.


There are plenty of unathletic tour players.  Coming from more traditional sports I'd like to see a guy run a 4.6 40, dunk a basketball two handed at 6 feet, etc.  These are what I would consider athletic.  Excellent golfers don't have to be athletic in my experience.  That's why I laugh at comparisons saying Koepka is an NFL linebacker.  He wouldn't last a minute in the NFL.


And they wouldn't last a minute on tour.  Your definition of athleticism is of course up to you...but from the objective assessments of neurology and physiology, yours is far too narrow to account for what's out there competing in any number of sports.


That's fine.  The tour rewards coordination.  You don't have to be an elite athlete.  Very few tour players could even play Division 1 football at a real position, let along NFL.  Hale Irwin is the last one who played a real position in college that I can recall.

Max Prokopy

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2023, 09:17:27 PM »
Juan Marichal also wouldn't last a minute in the NFL but he's off the charts athletically.
 
San Francisco Giants Juan Marichal Sports Illustrated Cover by Sports Illustrated (sicovers.com)

Kalen Braley

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2023, 09:28:51 PM »
Seems we're wading into murky waters here.

Try putting an elite bike rider on a NFL team or a NFL player on a professional bike tour, its apples and oranges...

Seems there is room enough to respect all levels and skillsets, including golfers, and those who can do it with god-like ability.

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2023, 10:34:46 PM »
There are plenty of unathletic tour players.
Nope.

All due respect, coordination is athleticism when put in the context of an event that takes 4+ hours, includes some physical endurance and other physiological demands/constraints.  Squaring the clubface over and over again, which might be closing at up to 2000 degrees/second around impact, on hilly lies, in wind, heat, morning, evening...that is athleticism.  One needn't be athletic to enjoy golf, but one does need the sport-specific athleticism to score well.
Yep.

That's fine.  The tour rewards coordination.  You don't have to be an elite athlete.  Very few tour players could even play Division 1 football at a real position, let along NFL.  Hale Irwin is the last one who played a real position in college that I can recall.
There's more to "athleticism" than "playing football." Jeez.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Charlie Goerges

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2023, 12:46:11 AM »
It’s funny because half of us are using the more archaic definitions of the two words and half the contemporary definitions. It causes a great deal of talking past one another. I, personally, do like the archaic uses, but I question the utility of them in this discussion. That said, the modern definitions are so similar that many things qualify as both, so maybe I should be questioning the modern usage as well.


One thing is certain though, no discussion can be had without an agreement as to the definitions.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 12:50:13 AM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2023, 02:15:56 AM »
The OP has zero to do with game Vs sport. I am quite confused how we got there.


The point was that in either case, you need to be playing to some kind of rules. In golf, that is lowest score or winning the hole. If you are just knocking it around trying out various shots, are you actually playing the game / sport or are you just practicing for the next time you play the game / sport? It’s a completely theoretical way of looking at it but it was to say that doesn’t scoring always matter in one form or another?


Golf is - of course - different to every other sport in that the variety of the different playing fields is what brings about much of the enjoyment, especially to those who frequent this website. So the lines are much more blurred between playing the game Vs practicing. But I tend to agree with Tim that I get the most enjoyment when focusing on trying to better the course / opponent / whatever. I.e. focusing on scoring. I never quite feel satisfied when I’m just knocking a ball around and trying things without properly finishing out holes.


All of the above was in the context of the angles thread only applying to scoring low (not just knocking it around for “fun”).


Now, if you move on to Joe’s actual point in the original post, should the position that scoring IS the game change the way he designs or builds? I say no because you score over whatever is laid in front of you, whether it is hard, challenging, easy or just goofy. So keep on building interesting golf holes for interesting golf shots regardless….


…However Tim seems to indicate - and I know where he’s coming from - that if designers keep on getting fixated on building courses for “fun” and start to forget the sport / game (I.e. scoring), there is a risk that the focus will turn to more and more outlandish features that are designed just to make people smile and laugh. A move to Disneyland golf as some detractors like to call it…. I’ve commented on this a lot before. It seems easy to wow a lot of one time visitors / raters with relatable touchstones to the past (e.g. templates), or even with just a plethora of “fun” shots in and around the greens, or maybe with width for width’s sake so the visitor doesn’t feel overly-challenged. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, as long as the “fun” shots aren’t just enjoyed as some kind of mini-golf beer laugh with the lads, and actually contribute to how good the course is from a scoring / plotting / competitive viewpoint as well.


P.S. Tim, please let us know if I am misrepresenting what you said or are taking it out of context…. I dislike when that happens to me and am really just projecting my own thoughts above.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 02:59:56 AM by Ally Mcintosh »

Sean_A

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2023, 03:24:17 AM »
Ally

I think we saw your dichotomy play out at the Chambers Bay Open. Setting aside the awful green conditions, I think many saw that course as not fit for a serious competition. Given how keen the course was, too many wild slopes and difficult to predict bounces. Compare that to baked out Hoylake when Tiger won. With few exceptions (and this is always the case) the only complaints were from spectators who clearly didn't understand the conditions. The USGA rolled the dice with a modern style "fun" design and were burned.

I don't worry about fun, wide golf becoming out of control because in the big scheme of things, the number of these courses is minimal. This design approach would have to continue for a long time to balance the scales with other styles. People freak out over short term trends. To me its a complete non issue.

I fail to understand any of the discussion regarding sport VS game and don't think it matters even if there were universally shared definitions. I have never been one to distinguish design types for scoring. A design is either good or not. It doesn't make any difference how I choose to play the course...matchplay, card in hand, by myself. Others think differently. I say Joe should build what he thinks is good rather than looking to random golfers for guidance. Some will like it, others won't. He doesn't need to please most golfers. Joe needs to please his boss, himself and enough golfers for the course to be successful.

Ciao
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 03:27:55 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2023, 03:52:07 AM »
Yep Sean,


I’m pretty much aligned with all of what you say above. I might add one disclaimer though:


You state that you don’t worry about fun / wide golf becoming out of control because in the scheme of things, the number of courses is minimal. I agree but am concerned that this is what every new course is aiming at because of the universal acclaim heaped upon this type of golf. And the only way that some people can outdo Renaissance / C&C is to ramp up the style and features and lose much of what made this design approach so attractive in the first place.

Sean_A

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2023, 04:02:09 AM »
Yep Sean,

I’m pretty much aligned with all of what you say above. I might add one disclaimer though:

You state that you don’t worry about fun / wide golf becoming out of control because in the scheme of things, the number of courses is minimal. I agree but am concerned that this is what every new course is aiming at because of the universal acclaim heaped upon this type of golf. And the only way that some people can outdo Renaissance / C&C is to ramp up the style and features and lose much of what made this design approach so attractive in the first place.

But if you take C&C and Renaissance out of the picture it's far less courses. The number is so small that I bet more courses of other styles are opening that we don't hear about. 🤷 I am shocked to hear about courses a year after they opened. But, like most, I am in my own golf media bubble. I really miss regular episodes of Feed the Ball. Derek was great at shining a light on all sorts of archies.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Niall C

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2023, 05:14:39 AM »
Given there are roughly 38,000 golf courses world wide and perhaps 500 of them will ever host an occasional top am or pro event...its clearly a game in my book.

Kind of like you can play HORSE on a basketball court, perhaps even at MSG...but its still just a game not a sport.


Kalen


Where does it say that the majority of players or events or venues are professional or used by professionals, for it to qualify as a sport ? Never heard that one before. If you used that definition then most team "sports" wouldn't be a sport.


Niall

Kyle Harris

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2023, 05:21:13 AM »
Golf checks off most of, if not all, of the commonly accepted “ten pillars of athleticism”.


But again.


Athleticism has nothing to do with game or sport. Games are between two rational actors. Sports are not.


Look up “game theory”


Look up “ten pillars of athleticism”


Take the conversation from there.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Niall C

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2023, 07:00:21 AM »
Golf checks off most of, if not all, of the commonly accepted “ten pillars of athleticism”.


But again.


Athleticism has nothing to do with game or sport. Games are between two rational actors. Sports are not.


Look up “game theory”


Look up “ten pillars of athleticism”


Take the conversation from there.


so are you suggesting we take your preferred definition rather than coming up with our own ?


Niall

Mark Pearce

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2023, 07:18:27 AM »
Britannica's definition is a fair bit nuanced, for example it lists soccer as both a game and sport...depending on how one is engaged in it. Thier basic definition is: "Is it for fun or competition"


Games and sports are very similar: a game is a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure. A sport is a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other.

The difference is subtle. A game is any mental or physical activity with rules that is done for fun, such as physical activities like baseball and soccer, or board games such as chess and Monopoly, or card games, or electronic games (like apps), or video games. Sports are specific physical activities one can compete in such as baseball, soccer, football, field hockey, running, cycling, rock climbing, swimming, diving, race car driving, kayaking, or weight lifting.


https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/eb/qa/What-Is-the-Difference-between-Games-and-Sports#:~:text=Games%20and%20sports%20are%20very,and%20compete%20against%20each%20other.
International cricket is undoubtedly a sport.  A year ago, the English test cricket team was a shambles.  They had won, I think, 1 game in 17 test matches.  They sacked the coach and the captain stood down (the captain in cricket is an important position, decisions he takes have an immediate impact on outcomes).  The replacements have decided that they "just want to have fun".  They practice less, they attack more, failure is accepted and even laughed at.  They play golf a lot (when they used to be practising).  They have, in many ways, torn up the rule book as to how the game is played.  But everything is about having fun.


They have won 10 of their 11 games since that change.  I think suggesting that the difference between a sport and a game is "is it fun or competition" is miles off beam.


Golf is a sport.  It's as much a sport in the club monthly medal as it is at The Open.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mike Bodo

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2023, 07:23:24 AM »
That's why I laugh at comparisons saying Koepka is an NFL linebacker.  He wouldn't last a minute in the NFL.
Heck, his body was breaking down playing golf on the PGA Tour, which is a non-contact sport. He'd be taken off the field in a gurney playing one quarter in the NFL given his fragile physique. LOL!
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Kyle Harris

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2023, 07:39:14 AM »
Golf checks off most of, if not all, of the commonly accepted “ten pillars of athleticism”.


But again.


Athleticism has nothing to do with game or sport. Games are between two rational actors. Sports are not.


Look up “game theory”


Look up “ten pillars of athleticism”


Take the conversation from there.


so are you suggesting we take your preferred definition rather than coming up with our own ?


Niall


They’re rather established definitions on their own. Hardly mine but they fit the dichotomy attempted here better than anything I’ve read on the thread.


Otherwise the conversation gets into these convoluted circular definitions where we actually have to prove the “athleticism” of golf in order to frame it as a sport or a game. Id think the athleticism of golf is long since asked and answered within the “athletic” camp.


Meanwhile, people are still out there hiking, hunting, swimming, and fishing “for sport.”


When the starter asks you, “are you looking for a game?” are they not asking if you’d like an opponent and a format?


There’s no game without an opponent. There’s no sport without an unwitting barrier.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Charlie Goerges

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2023, 08:37:20 AM »
Kyle, I like your definitions better, they are clearer and have concrete differences. Unfortunately, they aren't the ones in common usage nowadays. Language doesn't always change for the better. Max Behr wrote about the exact same issue and he talked about it in terms exactly like Kyle is using, but I fear there will be no discussion until definitions are agreed upon.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Thomas Dai

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2023, 10:26:24 AM »
“Pastime”.
Nice word.
Not used much these days.
Atb

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2023, 10:37:44 AM »
Now, if you move on to Joe’s actual point in the original post, should the position that scoring IS the game change the way he designs or builds? I say no because you score over whatever is laid in front of you, whether it is hard, challenging, easy or just goofy. So keep on building interesting golf holes for interesting golf shots regardless….


…However Tim seems to indicate - and I know where he’s coming from - that if designers keep on getting fixated on building courses for “fun” and start to forget the sport / game (I.e. scoring), there is a risk that the focus will turn to more and more outlandish features that are designed just to make people smile and laugh. A move to Disneyland golf as some detractors like to call it…. I’ve commented on this a lot before. It seems easy to wow a lot of one time visitors / raters with relatable touchstones to the past (e.g. templates), or even with just a plethora of “fun” shots in and around the greens, or maybe with width for width’s sake so the visitor doesn’t feel overly-challenged. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, as long as the “fun” shots aren’t just enjoyed as some kind of mini-golf beer laugh with the lads, and actually contribute to how good the course is from a scoring / plotting / competitive viewpoint as well.


P.S. Tim, please let us know if I am misrepresenting what you said or are taking it out of context…. I dislike when that happens to me and am really just projecting my own thoughts above.


Ally, yes, you've nailed what I was getting at, and what I thought Joe's OP was about (the semantic "Is golf a game?/Is golf a sport?" argument that has broken out is not of much interest to me, and in any case is off-topic). Thank you for expanding on it.


The bottom line is that someone who has not set out to compete - be it against opponents or just the golf course - is bound to evaluate a golf course fundamentally differently than someone who plays golf as a game/sport. It follows, then, that certain features and holes and courses will resonate differently with the casual/recreational golfer than they will with a competitive one.


I adore Tobacco Road, Tralee, Landmand, Old Toccoa Farm and The Creek Club at Reynolds Lake Oconee (I'd like to see if I put Mammoth Dunes and Gamble Sands into this group once I play them), particularly as golf-flavored land-art projects. However, because they sometimes trade away strong shot values for wild and unusual features, they don't always have a great answer to a question I increasingly find myself asking after I play:


Did this golf course make me want to be a better golfer when I play it next?

This question seems less much important to a lot of golfers than it is to me, especially here in the U.S., where golf is (regrettably, IMO) far more recreational than it is in the UK and Australia, where people are practically never teeing it up without something on the line, be it a match with friends or a weekly medal comp.


Contemporary architecture seems to be moving more toward "Disneyland golf" than before. I am mostly okay with it, but at a certain point it may threaten to pull golf farther away from its game/sporting nature, rather than closer to it.


Could it also make maintenance more expensive? Because they're not concerned with a match result or stroke-play score, recreational golfers need wilder/weirder features to entertain them than competitive golfers might (cf. "The pros would play in a parking lot if the purse was big enough."). Wilder/weirder golf features often seem to be more expensive to build and maintain than more on-menu features. I would be cautious about going too far to cater to this crowd, as opposed to encouraging them to clear the low bar of playing competitive golf.




P.S. For what little it's worth, I am often shocked at how relatively uncompetitive the other golf writers I encounter are. There are exceptions, but if I'm on some junket or at some event, playing an interesting course, it is like pulling teeth to try to play even something like a $1 Nassau with most of them. That makes me feel a little uneasy because I can't help but wonder what effects that casual/recreational approach can have on what they write and, consequently, the influence their perspective has on the golfing public and course architecture.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2023, 10:41:32 AM »
Sport - An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes.

Game - A form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

Golf can be both.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf as a game, a sport, or something else?
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2023, 12:33:28 PM »
Now, if you move on to Joe’s actual point in the original post, should the position that scoring IS the game change the way he designs or builds? I say no because you score over whatever is laid in front of you, whether it is hard, challenging, easy or just goofy. So keep on building interesting golf holes for interesting golf shots regardless….


…However Tim seems to indicate - and I know where he’s coming from - that if designers keep on getting fixated on building courses for “fun” and start to forget the sport / game (I.e. scoring), there is a risk that the focus will turn to more and more outlandish features that are designed just to make people smile and laugh. A move to Disneyland golf as some detractors like to call it…. I’ve commented on this a lot before. It seems easy to wow a lot of one time visitors / raters with relatable touchstones to the past (e.g. templates), or even with just a plethora of “fun” shots in and around the greens, or maybe with width for width’s sake so the visitor doesn’t feel overly-challenged. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, as long as the “fun” shots aren’t just enjoyed as some kind of mini-golf beer laugh with the lads, and actually contribute to how good the course is from a scoring / plotting / competitive viewpoint as well.


P.S. Tim, please let us know if I am misrepresenting what you said or are taking it out of context…. I dislike when that happens to me and am really just projecting my own thoughts above.


Ally, yes, you've nailed what I was getting at, and what I thought Joe's OP was about (the semantic "Is golf a game?/Is golf a sport?" argument that has broken out is not of much interest to me, and in any case is off-topic). Thank you for expanding on it.


The bottom line is that someone who has not set out to compete - be it against opponents or just the golf course - is bound to evaluate a golf course fundamentally differently than someone who plays golf as a game/sport. It follows, then, that certain features and holes and courses will resonate differently with the casual/recreational golfer than they will with a competitive one.


I adore Tobacco Road, Tralee, Landmand, Old Toccoa Farm and The Creek Club at Reynolds Lake Oconee (I'd like to see if I put Mammoth Dunes and Gamble Sands into this group once I play them), particularly as golf-flavored land-art projects. However, because they sometimes trade away strong shot values for wild and unusual features, they don't always have a great answer to a question I increasingly find myself asking after I play:


Did this golf course make me want to be a better golfer when I play it next?

This question seems less much important to a lot of golfers than it is to me, especially here in the U.S., where golf is (regrettably, IMO) far more recreational than it is in the UK and Australia, where people are practically never teeing it up without something on the line, be it a match with friends or a weekly medal comp.


Contemporary architecture seems to be moving more toward "Disneyland golf" than before. I am mostly okay with it, but at a certain point it may threaten to pull golf farther away from its game/sporting nature, rather than closer to it.


Could it also make maintenance more expensive? Because they're not concerned with a match result or stroke-play score, recreational golfers need wilder/weirder features to entertain them than competitive golfers might (cf. "The pros would play in a parking lot if the purse was big enough."). Wilder/weirder golf features often seem to be more expensive to build and maintain than more on-menu features. I would be cautious about going too far to cater to this crowd, as opposed to encouraging them to clear the low bar of playing competitive golf.




P.S. For what little it's worth, I am often shocked at how relatively uncompetitive the other golf writers I encounter are. There are exceptions, but if I'm on some junket or at some event, playing an interesting course, it is like pulling teeth to try to play even something like a $1 Nassau with most of them. That makes me feel a little uneasy because I can't help but wonder what effects that casual/recreational approach can have on what they write and, consequently, the influence their perspective has on the golfing public and course architecture.

Tim

I guess I am one of those people. I would prefer a very easy going losers by the drinks game, but I am not overly bothered. Regardless, match or no match, card in hand or nort, I am not really going to alter the way I see a course. I will try my best to see what is there rather than what I wish is there.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

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