Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel

[Sean_A]

My 18 year old son and I are celebrating high school graduation with a week long golf trip to Scotland. First time visitors.


I’m trying really hard to heed the wisdom of this august body and NOT go to 2 regions in 1 week. Flying into Edinburgh led me to focus on East Lothian so we have a B&B there, Thursday tee time at North Berwick, a cornucopia of amazing options at hand, yadda yadda, all good.


However, heeding other advice from here led me to review open comps at courses of interest and Lo! there’s a Sunday 7 club comp at Dornoch while we are in country. In addition to the significant positive fee difference, how cool would it be to play a competition at Royal freaking Dornoch, and a fun format at that?


Assuming we get in, how should we structure our trip?


A- Ignore the comp at Dornoch- a week in North Berwick in July is already heaven, don’t overthink this.
B- The train or drive to Dornoch isn’t that bad, heck the country is beautiful, so split the trip between East Lothian and the Highlands - best of both!
C- There’s just as much of a feast to be had in the Highlands and the comp opportunity is special. Reorient itinerary around there and commit to savor East Lothian and Fife another day.

Thanks, Dave

The added travel costs to Dornoch will reduce your green fee savings somewhat.

Beyond that, my advice is to look hard at your must plays in East Lothian. If there is not enough to fill a week, then consider must plays in Fife. The must plays should probably include invites from either region. If you really have the bit between your teeth, consider Dornoch if you have 3 days to fill. I don't recommend a mad dash and back. Otherwise, Dornoch makes for a fine trip on its own...it isn't going anywhere.

If you are spending a week or even a 3-4 days in East Lothian, get digs with a good location. Stay in central North Berwick if possible. It's the nicest of towns along this stretch. Has an easily accessible beach and a train station. If NB does not work out try for Gullane. Don't get stuck in an inland town to save a few bucks. You will regret it.

Ciao

[Niall C]

David


Let me suggest that if you are intending to NOT drive then really there is only one option and that is to stay in East Lothian (or indeed Ayrshire or St Andrews as long as you stay in one area). I know Garland has bussed around the Highlands but that was on an extended trip I believe. In East Lothian, most links courses are within striking distance from public transport. As Sean suggests NB is probably the best place to stay as it has more to do outwith golf as well as having a railway station. You'd be missing a trick if you didn't jump on the train to go up to Edinburgh for an evening, particularly if the Festival is on when you're there.


Gullane is also a nice place to stay but I suspect options on accommodation might be limited there. It also doesn't have a train station but it does have a local bus service. If you are minded to be extravagant then NB to Gullane is 5 miles and in between is Muirfield, Renaissance, Archerfield (x2) so taxis shouldn't be too bad. Kilspindie and Craigielaw is a better further afield at 8 miles.


Niall

[David Harshbarger]

My 18 year old son and I are celebrating high school graduation with a week long golf trip to Scotland. First time visitors.


I’m trying really hard to heed the wisdom of this august body and NOT go to 2 regions in 1 week. Flying into Edinburgh led me to focus on East Lothian so we have a B&B there, Thursday tee time at North Berwick, a cornucopia of amazing options at hand, yadda yadda, all good.


However, heeding other advice from here led me to review open comps at courses of interest and Lo! there’s a Sunday 7 club comp at Dornoch while we are in country. In addition to the significant positive fee difference, how cool would it be to play a competition at Royal freaking Dornoch, and a fun format at that?


Assuming we get in, how should we structure our trip?


A- Ignore the comp at Dornoch- a week in North Berwick in July is already heaven, don’t overthink this.
B- The train or drive to Dornoch isn’t that bad, heck the country is beautiful, so split the trip between East Lothian and the Highlands - best of both!
C- There’s just as much of a feast to be had in the Highlands and the comp opportunity is special. Reorient itinerary around there and commit to savor East Lothian and Fife another day.

Thanks, Dave

The added travel costs to Dornoch will reduce your green fee savings somewhat.

Beyond that, my advice is to look hard at your must plays in East Lothian. If there is not enough to fill a week, then consider must plays in Fife. The must plays should probably include invites from either region. If you really have the bit between your teeth, consider Dornoch if you have 3 days to fill. I don't recommend a mad dash and back. Otherwise, Dornoch makes for a fine trip on its own...it isn't going anywhere.

If you are spending a week or even a 3-4 days in East Lothian, get digs with a good location. Stay in central North Berwick if possible. It's the nicest of towns along this stretch. Has an easily accessible beach and a train station. If NB does not work out try for Gullane. Don't get stuck in an inland town to save a few bucks. You will regret it.

Ciao

Sean, your travel advice is best heeded, so we have secured a B&B in NB for the first half of the trip. It’s right in town and looks absolutely fabulous.


Cooler heads have prevailed to jettison plan B, though I am still thinking a split trip between NB and SA is workable, and commonly done.


I haven’t put together a definitive must play list. NB west is really the only must play there, imo, though Gullane 1-5 🤪 are all in play as well as Dunbar and Musselburgh.


Then Ladybank or Elie on the swing up to SA. Old course if we hit the lottery, otherwise some combo of Links Trust and regional courses to round out the last two days.


Thanks for the clear and sensible advice.


Best, Dave

[David Harshbarger]

David


Let me suggest that if you are intending to NOT drive then really there is only one option and that is to stay in East Lothian (or indeed Ayrshire or St Andrews as long as you stay in one area). I know Garland has bussed around the Highlands but that was on an extended trip I believe. In East Lothian, most links courses are within striking distance from public transport. As Sean suggests NB is probably the best place to stay as it has more to do outwith golf as well as having a railway station. You'd be missing a trick if you didn't jump on the train to go up to Edinburgh for an evening, particularly if the Festival is on when you're there.


Gullane is also a nice place to stay but I suspect options on accommodation might be limited there. It also doesn't have a train station but it does have a local bus service. If you are minded to be extravagant then NB to Gullane is 5 miles and in between is Muirfield, Renaissance, Archerfield (x2) so taxis shouldn't be too bad. Kilspindie and Craigielaw is a better further afield at 8 miles.


Niall

Niall thanks for the detailed take on logistics. I am mostly committed to not driving, and definitely committed to not renting a car for an entire week.


I balance the cost of public transport or car for hire against the price of the rental. Certainly would expect fewer trips with public transport, so if each is a tad pricey I’m ok with that.


So for example if getting from NB to SA requires a car I’d consider renting for a day if the logistics can’t make sense otherwise.


Thanks again very helpful! 😀

[Mark Pearce]

Train into Edinburgh.  Train to Leuchars.  Bus (or cab) to St Andrews.  An Australian friend of mine got the bus to Elie from St Andrews for a game last year.  There are coastal buses that will get you to most of the links courses in Fife.

[Sean_A]

My 18 year old son and I are celebrating high school graduation with a week long golf trip to Scotland. First time visitors.


I’m trying really hard to heed the wisdom of this august body and NOT go to 2 regions in 1 week. Flying into Edinburgh led me to focus on East Lothian so we have a B&B there, Thursday tee time at North Berwick, a cornucopia of amazing options at hand, yadda yadda, all good.


However, heeding other advice from here led me to review open comps at courses of interest and Lo! there’s a Sunday 7 club comp at Dornoch while we are in country. In addition to the significant positive fee difference, how cool would it be to play a competition at Royal freaking Dornoch, and a fun format at that?


Assuming we get in, how should we structure our trip?


A- Ignore the comp at Dornoch- a week in North Berwick in July is already heaven, don’t overthink this.
B- The train or drive to Dornoch isn’t that bad, heck the country is beautiful, so split the trip between East Lothian and the Highlands - best of both!
C- There’s just as much of a feast to be had in the Highlands and the comp opportunity is special. Reorient itinerary around there and commit to savor East Lothian and Fife another day.

Thanks, Dave

The added travel costs to Dornoch will reduce your green fee savings somewhat.

Beyond that, my advice is to look hard at your must plays in East Lothian. If there is not enough to fill a week, then consider must plays in Fife. The must plays should probably include invites from either region. If you really have the bit between your teeth, consider Dornoch if you have 3 days to fill. I don't recommend a mad dash and back. Otherwise, Dornoch makes for a fine trip on its own...it isn't going anywhere.

If you are spending a week or even a 3-4 days in East Lothian, get digs with a good location. Stay in central North Berwick if possible. It's the nicest of towns along this stretch. Has an easily accessible beach and a train station. If NB does not work out try for Gullane. Don't get stuck in an inland town to save a few bucks. You will regret it.

Ciao

Sean, your travel advice is best heeded, so we have secured a B&B in NB for the first half of the trip. It’s right in town and looks absolutely fabulous.

Cooler heads have prevailed to jettison plan B, though I am still thinking a split trip between NB and SA is workable, and commonly done.

I haven’t put together a definitive must play list. NB west is really the only must play there, imo, though Gullane 1-5  are all in play as well as Dunbar and Musselburgh.

Then Ladybank or Elie on the swing up to SA. Old course if we hit the lottery, otherwise some combo of Links Trust and regional courses to round out the last two days.

Thanks for the clear and sensible advice.

Best, Dave

Dave

I think its probably for the best to miss Dornoch. However, I admit to being less than gung ho about unnecessary windshield time when there is interesting golf to see near my digs. With no car you have plenty of courses to whet the appetite which are easy to access from NB. It's easy to focus on the Gullanes, NB, Muirfield and Kilspindie, but I think Dunbar is worth investigating the bus schedule. Don't forget about Musselburgh Old and even Braid Hills. Either could be a nice stop on the way to Edinburgh if you decide to stay in town for a few days. East Lothian and Edinburgh is an easy area to fall for.

Ciao

[Ira Fishman]

Slightly OT, but has anyone used the ferry from NB to Anstruther? It is back in service on infrequent days, but is very budget friendly.


Ira

[David Harshbarger]

Train into Edinburgh.  Train to Leuchars.  Bus (or cab) to St Andrews.  An Australian friend of mine got the bus to Elie from St Andrews for a game last year.  There are coastal buses that will get you to most of the links courses in Fife.

Thank you! Those must be lovely rides as well!


I got a quote from Celtic Legend for about £100/ day for a rental, plus petrol. To me that only makes sense if the itinerary moves about the country. That makes the busses look better!

[Mark Chaplin]

David the cost of travelling to Dornoch would negate much of the green fee savings. If you took the train you’d have to leave on Saturday and return on Monday.


Gullane has a 3 day ticket for one round on each course for £305 - personally i think No.1 is over rated and over priced. The Glen and Kilspindie will give you fun reasonably priced golf. Dunbar also has a good reputation and is £115 a round Monday- Wednesday.


However my personal opinion is you are missing a trick with a 16/17 year old and that of course is St Andrews. A 7 day ticket is circa $850 each, if you want you can queue for the Old at extra cost. There’s no driving or hire car required snd most importantly as a university town there’s a great student vibe that your son will enjoy.

[David Harshbarger]

David the cost of travelling to Dornoch would negate much of the green fee savings. If you took the train you’d have to leave on Saturday and return on Monday.


Gullane has a 3 day ticket for one round on each course for £305 - personally i think No.1 is over rated and over priced. The Glen and Kilspindie will give you fun reasonably priced golf. Dunbar also has a good reputation and is £115 a round Monday- Wednesday.


However my personal opinion is you are missing a trick with a 16/17 year old and that of course is St Andrews. A 7 day ticket is circa $850 each, if you want you can queue for the Old at extra cost. There’s no driving or hire car required snd most importantly as a university town there’s a great student vibe that your son will enjoy.

Mark, thank you. College vibe is on my sons mind. He’s thinking year abroad. Glasgow has been mentioned.


The one thing he doesn’t want to do is walk around towns. He’s ok walking 36, just don’t make him wander around a town. I suspect the charms of Scotland will draw him out a bit but exploring on foot is not a priority.


I like the combined tickets for our trip. I’m looking at Gullane 2&3 combined ticket for arrival day, if we get to Dornoch their combined ticket for the RD and Struie and then the combined Brora/Golspie/Tain ticket also have appeal.


Playing 27 or 36 at the same complex makes a ton of sense to me, particularly compared to playing two mid- top- tier courses in those same slots.


Currently have:


Arrival day 5/7 play 2 or 2&3 at Gullane. This is very affordable, £95/pp, and I’ve heard good things about both.
6/7 North Berwick in am, then drive to overnight in Saint Andrew’s, stopping at Musselburgh for 9 on way.
7/7 Flexible Fife day. Old course if we are lottery winners. Invites if schedules align. Probably Crail 36 or St Andrew’s New/Eden.
8/7 Flexible Fife + transit. Old course if we are lottery winners. Invites if schedules align. Tain + Portmahonack otherwise.
9/7 open comp at Dornoch + Struie if we have the energy.
10/7 Brora + Golspie. There’s a £75/play deal for Tain, Brora, Golspie that helps here.
11/7 Flexible Fife day redux: Invite if schedules align. Pick a course if not. End day in Edinburgh ready for early train.


Overall trip stats:
1 night North Berwick
2 nights Saint Andrew’s
3 nights Dornoch
1 night Edinburgh


Courses:
Gullane 2
Gullane 3
North Berwick
Musselburgh
(Invite or 1 day in Fife up to 36 holes)
(Invite or Tain + [size=78%]Portmahonack)[/size]
Royal Dornoch
Royal Dornoch Struie
Brora
Golspie
(Invite or Pick a play 18 in transit to Edinburgh)


Only North Berwick is currently full price.


This seems to square most of the wants and needs.


Three days of semi flexible play to meet with GCAers or if that doesn’t work out play courses in area or en route.


Chance to play old course without tying down in Saint Andrew’s.


Saint Andrew’s stay to drink in home of golf.


Doak 10 (maybe 2).


See country, see college town, meet friends, lotsa golf.


Bucket list courses:


North Berwick
Musselburgh
RCD
Brora
Portmahonack (as “random Scottish 9 hole town course”)


And we get to see more of the country!


If we don’t get in the open at Dornoch, then I see this collapsing into North Berwick + Saint Andrew’s. More lottery entries for old course. Probably double up on North Berwick on 7/6. Add Kilspindie. [size=78%]Consider Cruden Bay 27. Look hard at Elie, Leven, Lundin, Crail. More days to play with GCAers. [/size]


Thanks everyone!

[Mark Chaplin]

David - join the ballot but check the busy dates and if theres nothing on the list get up super early and join the Old Course queue!

[Ian Galbraith]

I’m trying really hard to heed the wisdom of this august body and NOT go to 2 regions in 1 week.

So now you're trying to travel to 3 regions instead  


You'll have a great time whatever you choose in the end.

[James Reader]

I’m trying really hard to heed the wisdom of this august body and NOT go to 2 regions in 1 week.

So now you're trying to travel to 3 regions instead  


You'll have a great time whatever you choose in the end.

RCD snuck in there!  Now that would be stretching it.

[David Harshbarger]

I’m trying really hard to heed the wisdom of this august body and NOT go to 2 regions in 1 week.

So now you're trying to travel to 3 regions instead  


You'll have a great time whatever you choose in the end.

Crazy how that worked out!


The feedback from the board was great and made think hard.


Once I got comfortable with the idea of driving it put more flexibility into the plan. And seeing the country is a plus to me. Tom’s feedback that Dornoch isn’t a crazy drive held some weight. Feedback about soaking up St Andrew’s held weight. Making the list of must play courses led me to trim down time in North Berwick. Portmahonack or Covesea were important as well.


As the OG Internet Golf Influencers this board has significantly shaped my priors over the last 13 years. The itinerary may hit three areas but the courses are not the Open Rota you see on package tours. This is a GCA itinerary. I’m thankful to all the contributors over the years who have shaped and given words to my sensibilities.


In East Lothian, I would have gone to Kilspindie and Dunbar. But weighing them against Brora and Golspie it seemed clear which were more important to me. North Berwick is revered and at the very top of my list. Gullane 2 & 3 seem perfect to bury the tricky jet lag day: inexpensive but well regarded. And Musselburgh is a bucket list item so keeping this part of the itinerary made sense.


Being in St Andrew’s is by all accounts special, so getting two nights there will let us experience that. Unless we get on the Old Course none of the other courses there are super high priorities. That’s good as that makes time to meet GCAers. The courses are there so if we have a window we can play but if we have other plans we won’t feel we missed out.


The Open Comp at Dornoch started this and with luck we will click our way in at 4 am on a Monday in April. I’ve never played a Doak 10. I want to see perfection. I want to see if I recognize perfection.


Lastly my son says he wants to see the University in Glasgow. Good thing I like to drive!

[Stephen Northrup]

I played in (and won!) the competition you’re planning to enter in Dornoch in 2016 — the MacLeod Cup. Play is in groups of 3, and I was fortunate to be grouped with two RDGC members (whose knowledge of the course no doubt played a role in my success). Hopefully you’ll be grouped with a member as well — you might even request it.


I raise this not only to brag, but to mention there was another open competition at Tain around the same time, which I also entered (but did not win).


The best tool for searching for open comps is golfempire.co.uk — you can search a multitude of ways and generally find direct links to the sign-up pages at the various clubs.

[David Harshbarger]

I played in (and won!) the competition you’re planning to enter in Dornoch in 2016 — the MacLeod Cup. Play is in groups of 3, and I was fortunate to be grouped with two RDGC members (whose knowledge of the course no doubt played a role in my success). Hopefully you’ll be grouped with a member as well — you might even request it.


I raise this not only to brag, but to mention there was another open competition at Tain around the same time, which I also entered (but did not win).


The best tool for searching for open comps is golfempire.co.uk — you can search a multitude of ways and generally find direct links to the sign-up pages at the various clubs.

This site never ceases to amaze me! Hope I have that kind of result as well!

[Pete_Pittock]

You'll probably need to pick up a Michelin road map for Scotland.  My set from 25 years ago ended up with color-coded stick-em circles for golf courses, hotels and attractions. My seared into my brain moment driving south on the M74 was cresting a hill and looking downward towards two fighter jets coming towards me maybe 50-100 feet above the road practicing just above the terrain flight.

[David Harshbarger]

You'll probably need to pick up a Michelin road map for Scotland.  My set from 25 years ago ended up with color-coded stick-em circles for golf courses, hotels and attractions. My seared into my brain moment driving south on the M74 was cresting a hill and looking downward towards two fighter jets coming towards me maybe 50-100 feet above the road practicing just above the terrain flight.

Thanks for the tip. My dream is to travel enough through the Isles to need color coded highlights of places to revisit!

[Richard Fisher]

David


The Univ of Glasgow (est 1451) is one of the oldest in Europe, and the uni quarter of Glasgow is well worth strolling round. That said, I shall repeat the advice I give every American GCAer coming to the UK for the first time - driving here, and especially urban and semi-urban driving, ALWAYS takes longer than you might think, and that will apply to the central Scottish belt as much as anywhere else. One reason why many of us recommend 36 hole days at the same club (whether or not there are two courses), as you can really enjoy the day without the stress of a hurried drive in the middle...


I don't think you need any more itinerary advice, other than to commend Luffness warmly as a lunching club with a lovely, highly playable golf course attached.


Anyway, enjoy!

[James Reader]

You'll probably need to pick up a Michelin road map for Scotland.  My set from 25 years ago ended up with color-coded stick-em circles for golf courses, hotels and attractions. My seared into my brain moment driving south on the M74 was cresting a hill and looking downward towards two fighter jets coming towards me maybe 50-100 feet above the road practicing just above the terrain flight.

Thanks for the tip. My dream is to travel enough through the Isles to need color coded highlights of places to revisit!

You could do a lot worse than buy David’s map….
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Golf-Course-Scotland-David-Jones/dp/1527277984/ref=sr_1_1?crid=300GN7KPVCEOM&keywords=golf+course+map+of+scotland&qid=1677000308&sprefix=Golf+course+ma%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-1

[Niall C]

Don't want to deprive David of a sale but wouldn't it make more sense to make sure you have Satnav in the hire car ?


Niall

[Tim Martin]

Don't want to deprive David of a sale but wouldn't it make more sense to make sure you have Satnav in the hire car ?


Niall

Being able to read a map was a useful skill back in the day but if GPS is available it seems like a no brainer. I can remember using road maps while traveling for work and never used another after the advent of GPS.

[Pete_Pittock]

Don't want to deprive David of a sale but wouldn't it make more sense to make sure you have Satnav in the hire car ?

Niall

Being able to read a map was a useful skill back in the day but if GPS is available it seems like a no brainer. I can remember using road maps while traveling for work and never used another after the advent of GPS.

Some sort of GPS certainly gets you from A to B, but a large paper map is great for planning purposes to show relative positioning.


 

[David Harshbarger]

David


The Univ of Glasgow (est 1451) is one of the oldest in Europe, and the uni quarter of Glasgow is well worth strolling round. That said, I shall repeat the advice I give every American GCAer coming to the UK for the first time - driving here, and especially urban and semi-urban driving, ALWAYS takes longer than you might think, and that will apply to the central Scottish belt as much as anywhere else. One reason why many of us recommend 36 hole days at the same club (whether or not there are two courses), as you can really enjoy the day without the stress of a hurried drive in the middle...


I don't think you need any more itinerary advice, other than to commend Luffness warmly as a lunching club with a lovely, highly playable golf course attached.


Anyway, enjoy!

Thank you Richard!


I still have a room in North Berwick for most of our stay. The thought of a short walk to a town course is very appealing.


Two months until the open at Dornoch opens for entries and until then I’ve got Schroedingers itinerary of sorts.

[Stewart Abramson]

Don't want to deprive David of a sale but wouldn't it make more sense to make sure you have Satnav in the hire car ?

Niall

Being able to read a map was a useful skill back in the day but if GPS is available it seems like a no brainer. I can remember using road maps while traveling for work and never used another after the advent of GPS.

Some sort of GPS certainly gets you from A to B, but a large paper map is great for planning purposes to show relative positioning.

Google Maps is even better for planning. It allows you to search for quickest routes, restaurants, lodging and more, and provides drive times by time of day, It allows for storing and comparing alternate routes at the click of a mouse. Dave can have a separate layer for each possible version of his trip on a single stored map and can edit any version easily at any time.