Scotland Advice - Open Comp vs Less Travel

[David Harshbarger]

My 18 year old son and I are celebrating high school graduation with a week long golf trip to Scotland. First time visitors.


I’m trying really hard to heed the wisdom of this august body and NOT go to 2 regions in 1 week. Flying into Edinburgh led me to focus on East Lothian so we have a B&B there, Thursday tee time at North Berwick, a cornucopia of amazing options at hand, yadda yadda, all good.


However, heeding other advice from here led me to review open comps at courses of interest and Lo! there’s a Sunday 7 club comp at Dornoch while we are in country. In addition to the significant positive fee difference, how cool would it be to play a competition at Royal freaking Dornoch, and a fun format at that?


Assuming we get in, how should we structure our trip?


A- Ignore the comp at Dornoch- a week in North Berwick in July is already heaven, don’t overthink this.
B- The train or drive to Dornoch isn’t that bad, heck the country is beautiful, so split the trip between East Lothian and the Highlands - best of both!
C- There’s just as much of a feast to be had in the Highlands and the comp opportunity is special. Reorient itinerary around there and commit to savor East Lothian and Fife another day.


Thanks, Dave

[Niall C]

David


Why not cancel North Berwick and spend the week in Dornoch ? Loads of other good courses that won't cost an arm and a leg if that is a consideration.


Alternatively, make the journey up and down to Dornoch part of the trip and play a course on the way up the day before the comp and another the day after the comp on the way down, bookending the trip with a game or two at NB, Gullane, Kilspindie etc.


In the past I'd have given the type of advice you refer to in your OP but to be honest it's best just follow your golfing desires and go for it. The above advice is really just to suggest there are better ways than hammering it all the way up to Dornoch from NB after a round of golf (yes, I've done it) and vice versa.


Niall

[Dan_Callahan]

Go to Dornoch. In my mind, it is the perfect golf course and is my all-time favorite. For what it's worth, I played North Berwick and Dornoch on back to back days (with a night in Edinburgh) and didn't find the travel time onerous at all.

[Niall C]

David


Forget to say, Pitlochry on the way up and perhaps Rosemount or Boat of Garten on the way down might be a suggestion.


Niall

[Tom_Doak]

David:


I've made the trip from East Lothian up to Castle Stuart [and then to Dornoch] each of the past two years.  I had work in both places, and made the extra leg to Dornoch on behalf of the two interns that were traveling with me.


It's a solid five hours in the car each way.  That's the real question -- do you want to spend that much time driving?  The scenery is nice but not spectacular, and it's the same coming back unless you take a much longer route.  [The drive back down south was a slog last year, I was tired after all that we had done.]


If you're going to try both, I would only spend a couple of days in East Lothian, max, and then explore some more on your way to and from the Highlands.  Or, just skip East Lothian all together as Niall suggests, and live out of your suitcases for a week.


P.S.  You can play with seven clubs anywhere, anytime.

[Stewart Abramson]

Hi Dave -,


I wouldn't venture up to Dornoch just for one round. A week in Scotland will fly by very fast and why spend almost 5 hours travelling to Dornoch (and presumably almost 5 hours back to catch your flight home from EDI. As between choice A (East Lothian) and choice C the Highlands, either one will make for a great trip as there is enough great golf in either region to give you a trip of a lifetime. You chose East Lothian initially rather than the Highlands. I don't think anyone except you and your son can decide whether the draw of the 7 club comp is sufficient reason to change your initial plan.  If I was going to make a side trip from North Berwick it would be to St Andrews not Dornoch, especially since it's your first trip to Scotland.


One of these days I'll make it back to Schulyerville and we'll finally get in a round together.

Best,

Stew

[Jeff Schley]

It will be your first trip, thus we can almost guarantee it won't be your last after the experience.

You will have more trips to continue exploring.

[David Harshbarger]

The strong support for it being reasonable to string together the B option is a bit of a surprise!

Logistically, my thought was to take the train up to the Highlands. If there for the full stay I would consider renting a car to get to Portmahonack and Covesea if taxis aren’t practical. Is that reasonable? Pitlochry is a stop on the line - would it be worth stepping off the train to play? I would do that.


One aspect of taking the train is that it’s pretty passive and a reason to rest and only play 18 that day. Having never (legally) driven on the left side I don’t imagine my first time is going to be an easy Sunday drive!


As far as playing with a short bag-we do that enough anyway that I feel it’s an advantage. I’ve had nearly 100 years of club tech in my regular bag until just recently and still don’t carry 14 to give you an idea of my attitude towards equipment. But the bigger picture is that playing a Comp would be special to me - so many of the mysteries of golf are only unveiled in competition. And as I am feeling that 2023 will be a hickory year I’d only have to drop a club or two.


Without a doubt cost is a factor. I can’t justify $500 or more in green fees every day for two of us - I can on a few days though.


My view of our earliest forbearers who laid out the game is that they had the mindset of 12 year olds, or in modern terms of the earliest mountain bikers. When they thought what would be the coolest route to play, of course you’d go over the giant dunes -duh!


The world of our earliest forbearers is gone obviously, it’s the 21st century, and courses aren’t museum pieces, far from it, they are living creatures that need care, and money, and an economic rationale to continue to exist.


So to experience as close to that early conception of golf as I romanticize I’m drawn towards those courses that reflect that origin ethic - how can we take the land we have and make as kick ass a ball and stick adventure as possible? My sense is the Highlands have more of that kind of course in its least contrived form, which is a big appeal.

Stew, looking forward to getting out next time you are up here.

Thank you all for your generosity to share your thoughts. Really, it’s a blessing.

[David_Tepper]

David -

Given that I have visited Dornoch 35-36 times (and played well over 400 rounds there) and never visited East Lothian, my advice may sound strange. But I would recommend plan A, spending the week in North Berwick/East Lothian. There is a ton of quality golf easily available there. There are also several GCA-ers who are members at some of those clubs and they may be kind enough to host you at their clubs at the "guest of member" green fee rate.

Being just about anywhere in East Lothian, you can travel to central Edinburgh in 30-60 minutes by train or bus should you wish to spend a morning, afternoon or evening away from golf and enjoy visiting one of the most beautiful cities in Britain.

Should you wish to take a road trip, you can rent a car and drive to St. Andrews for the day. You may not be able to play the Old Course, but playing the New, Jubilee or Eden is a quality round well worth the journey. Even spending a few hours just walking about the town is worth the trip.

Save Dornoch & the Highlands for your next trip over!

DT 

 

[Jason Topp]

My first trip to Scotland with my father was a week in St Andrew’s.  He somehow wrangled us a guest rate at Turnberry (a 3 hour drive at the time) so we spent a day driving there and back and played 36 holes.  It was a fantastic adventure that 30 years later yields more memories than the rest of the week. 


Either choice is good.  Go with your heart. 

[David Harshbarger]

Thanks David, that is very sane and sound advice made more so by eschewing homerism. I would delight in meeting GCAers in the area of course, and hearing the rich history of the courses you all love.


I like the idea of Edinburgh. My son has said he’s interested in more golf less culture, but I can’t imagine he wouldn’t enjoy checking out the city. And if we stay in NB I’m sure we’ll take the train in to check things out.

[David Harshbarger]

My first trip to Scotland with my father was a week in St Andrew’s.  He somehow wrangled us a guest rate at Turnberry (a 3 hour drive at the time) so we spent a day driving there and back and played 36 holes.  It was a fantastic adventure that 30 years later yields more memories than the rest of the week. 


Either choice is good.  Go with your heart.

That’s funny how you put this as in a way playing in the comp at Dornoch is effectively landing a guest of member rate!


Of the crazier ideas I’ve discarded is pushing north to the isles and playing like Stromness at midnight. Crazy enough that you do it because it’s slightly nuts and that’s reason enough. Driving across the country and playing 36 seems right up that alley as well.

[David_Tepper]

David -

A couple more thoughts:

Know that there will be plenty of daylight at that time of year. You should be able to play golf well past 10pm when you are there.

Check the tournament schedules at all the clubs in the East Lothian area for their "open" events. Usually the entry fee for these tournaments is modest and much less than paying the regular visitor green fee. These events are a nice way to meet some locals and an inexpensive way to see a new course.

DT

[David Harshbarger]

David -

A couple more thoughts:

Know that there will be plenty of daylight at that time of year. You should be able to play golf well past 10pm when you are there.

Check the tournament schedules at all the clubs in the East Lothian area for their "open" events. Usually the entry fee for these tournaments is modest and much less than paying the regular visitor green fee. These events are a nice way to meet some locals and an inexpensive way to see a new course.

DT

The open comps are so foreign to an American. Here if you want to play a top course through an “outing” you are generally going to pay through the nose and well above the guest rate, in my experience.


The idea that the course would carve out inventory to sell at a lower cost, and with an event thrown in is nuts. Welcome, but nuts.


The 7 club comp at Dornoch is the one comp I found during our window from doing just as you suggest. Will have to go back through the East Lothian courses again.

[Marty Bonnar]

David -

A couple more thoughts:

Know that there will be plenty of daylight at that time of year. You should be able to play golf well past 10pm when you are there.

Check the tournament schedules at all the clubs in the East Lothian area for their "open" events. Usually the entry fee for these tournaments is modest and much less than paying the regular visitor green fee. These events are a nice way to meet some locals and an inexpensive way to see a new course.

DT

The open comps are so foreign to an American. Here if you want to play a top course through an “outing” you are generally going to pay through the nose and well above the guest rate, in my experience.


The idea that the course would carve out inventory to sell at a lower cost, and with an event thrown in is nuts. Welcome, but nuts.


The 7 club comp at Dornoch is the one comp I found during our window from doing just as you suggest. Will have to go back through the East Lothian courses again.

David,
Welcome to the home of The Open - and the Opens!
If you have a spare day, very happy to have you visit Ladybank.
F.

[David Harshbarger]

David -

A couple more thoughts:

Know that there will be plenty of daylight at that time of year. You should be able to play golf well past 10pm when you are there.

Check the tournament schedules at all the clubs in the East Lothian area for their "open" events. Usually the entry fee for these tournaments is modest and much less than paying the regular visitor green fee. These events are a nice way to meet some locals and an inexpensive way to see a new course.

DT

The open comps are so foreign to an American. Here if you want to play a top course through an “outing” you are generally going to pay through the nose and well above the guest rate, in my experience.


The idea that the course would carve out inventory to sell at a lower cost, and with an event thrown in is nuts. Welcome, but nuts.


The 7 club comp at Dornoch is the one comp I found during our window from doing just as you suggest. Will have to go back through the East Lothian courses again.

David,
Welcome to the home of The Open - and the Opens!
If you have a spare day, very happy to have you visit Ladybank.
F.

   We would love that if it works with your schedule. There’s little more memorable than meeting fellow GCAers!

[Pete_Pittock]

IF you're going to be there for a week, the spending two days traveling between Dornich and the Lothians seems a bit much (28% of the days). Also have you factored in left side driving for the first time?

[David Harshbarger]

IF you're going to be there for a week, the spending two days traveling between Dornich and the Lothians seems a bit much (28% of the days). Also have you factored in left side driving for the first time?

Pete, when you put it that it does seem excessive!


Is it reasonable to travel by train on a trip like this, augmented with taxis or cars for hire? I have no great desire to drive on left the side of the road.

[Ian Galbraith]

David, I’m one of the North Berwick locals referred to above. 😀


Here’s my ha’penny worth.


1) you have a great plan to stay in East Lothian - main objective now is not to ruin it!


2) Is entering a competition worth 2 days travelling?


3) trains are not cheap here. Would that money be better spent on Green fees & nice food?


4) even in summer good weather is not a given. By fixing 2 travel days you lose some flexibility to arrange your golf around the weather.


5) Depending on dates I’m sure one of us local members can help you out to play another round on the west links -DM me if you want.


So IMHO stick to a one centre trip, Dornoch and surrounds is wonderful as is East Lothian.


Best Ian

[David_Tepper]

"Is it reasonable to travel by train on a trip like this, augmented with taxis or cars for hire?"

David -

My wife & I have taken the overnite sleeper train from Inverness to London a half dozen times, but never traveling with golf clubs.

Taxis in the Dornoch area certainly can be arranged, but it requires being organized and planning ahead. The nearest train station to Dornoch is in Tain, about 8 miles away. To get there you have to change trains in Inverness.

While I don't know how things will be this summer, Scot Rail has been experiencing a fair number of strikes ("industrial actions") and staffing shortages over this winter, which has made travel by train in Scotland somewhat unpredictable at times.

DT   

[Ira Fishman]

David,


My two cents. On our first trip, we were in Dornoch and played Golspie, Brora, and RD and then spent a couple of nights in Inverness and played Nairn and Castle Stuart. Absolutely wonderful trip without much travel. Castle Stuart is not worth the fee though.


On our second trip, we spent three nights in North Berwick and played NB 2X and Kilspindie. We then spent four nights in St. Andrews and played Elie, Crail Balcomie, and Kingsbarns. Another fantastic trip although Kingsbarns is not worth the fee.


So my advice is to pick either A or C and whoever said go with your heart is correct. The experience and the memories are what matters. For me, as much as I loved the Highlands and found Golspie and Brora to be special finds, NB is a course not to be missed (but most would say the same about RD). On the other hand, if playing in a competition at RD appeals to your heart and soul, go for it.


There really is not a wrong choice.


Ira

[David Harshbarger]

David, I’m one of the North Berwick locals referred to above. 😀


Here’s my ha’penny worth.


1) you have a great plan to stay in East Lothian - main objective now is not to ruin it!


2) Is entering a competition worth 2 days travelling?


3) trains are not cheap here. Would that money be better spent on Green fees & nice food?


4) even in summer good weather is not a given. By fixing 2 travel days you lose some flexibility to arrange your golf around the weather.


5) Depending on dates I’m sure one of us local members can help you out to play another round on the west links -DM me if you want.


So IMHO stick to a one centre trip, Dornoch and surrounds is wonderful as is East Lothian.


Best Ian

Ian, wow a ha’penny goes a long ways! Thank you!


1…this whole thread is an exercise in not messing up this trip!


2…yes! To participate in an Open Comp at one of the world’s most revered courses, in one of the most fun formats, to be a guest of such a fine club as they extend their generosity to the community, to play that with my son, to me that is a singularly unique opportunity.


3…absolutely on both counts


4…weather flexibility is a good point. Is it only us yanks who play no matter what?


5…Thank you it would be great to see the course through the eyes of a member and GCAer.


Looks like I need to think through what a Dornoch centered itinerary would look like. Our flight arrives around 7am and I could see benefit in just legging up to Inverness right from the plane. That first day stinks if jet lag hits so 4 hours to bury our heads on the train might be welcome. Then one travel day is wrapped into arrival. Hmm


Thank you so much and let me work so more on not ruining this!

[David Harshbarger]

"Is it reasonable to travel by train on a trip like this, augmented with taxis or cars for hire?"

David -

My wife & I have taken the overnite sleeper train from Inverness to London a half dozen times, but never traveling with golf clubs.

Taxis in the Dornoch area certainly can be arranged, but it requires being organized and planning ahead. The nearest train station to Dornoch is in Tain, about 8 miles away. To get there you have to change trains in Inverness.

While I don't know how things will be this summer, Scot Rail has been experiencing a fair number of strikes ("industrial actions") and staffing shortages over this winter, which has made travel by train in Scotland somewhat unpredictable at times.

DT

David, thank you.


That explains the odd banners on the ScotRail website about line impacts. That and the transfers to Dornoch are all hassles I’m adding to our vacation. Nothing insurmountable but hassles none the less. Thank you for sharing that.

[David Harshbarger]

David,


My two cents. On our first trip, we were in Dornoch and played Golspie, Brora, and RD and then spent a couple of nights in Inverness and played Nairn and Castle Stuart. Absolutely wonderful trip without much travel. Castle Stuart is not worth the fee though.


On our second trip, we spent three nights in North Berwick and played NB 2X and Kilspindie. We then spent four nights in St. Andrews and played Elie, Crail Balcomie, and Kingsbarns. Another fantastic trip although Kingsbarns is not worth the fee.


So my advice is to pick either A or C and whoever said go with your heart is correct. The experience and the memories are what matters. For me, as much as I loved the Highlands and found Golspie and Brora to be special finds, NB is a course not to be missed (but most would say the same about RD). On the other hand, if playing in a competition at RD appeals to your heart and soul, go for it.


There really is not a wrong choice.


Ira

Ira, thanks for sharing. I see you went with Plan A, then Plan C, and both worked to perfection. There’s a lesson in there somewhere….


Thanks again, Dave

[James Reader]

Something else to think about with the Dornoch option is the risk that you base all your planning around it and then don’t get in. Some of the most popular opens can be booked up within a matter of minutes of registration opening. Lots of UK golfers are used to being online on the dot of the opening time just to get a slot in their monthly medal, let alone the chance to play a great course at a cheap rate.



It looks like that’s not until mid-April, which wouldn’t leave you long to put together a back up plan if you miss out.