[Carl Johnson]

The traffic will be even worse now.  All prior phots will be out of date and hundreds of thousands of golfers will have to go back and have their pictures retaken.

[Josh Bills]

Here is my photo taken in July 2016.  Judge for yourself.

[Kalen Braley]

I know its a public access kind of deal and all that,

Do people scurry out there in between groups on playing days to take pics?  Or is most of the extra traffic on Sundays and before golfers get to it in the morning?

P.S.  Would kikuyu grow over there?  That stuff is tough! 

[Mark Chaplin]

Apparently the Trust is rolling over and removing the “patio”. Source BBC

[David_Tepper]

Kalen -

WAY to cool a climate for kikuyu.

DT

[David_Tepper]

St. Andrews Trust yields!

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/swilcan-bridge-st-andrews-links-trust-old-course-messing-with-history?utm_medium=email&utm_source=020623&utm_campaign=hitlist&utm_content=DM36346&uuid=9861c6da148243648f1aa92679fb32a0

[Marty Bonnar]

From the Horse’s MOUTH:
https://standrews.com/articles/swilcan-bridge-works-update

[Marty Bonnar]

I know its a public access kind of deal and all that,

Do people scurry out there in between groups on playing days to take pics?  Or is most of the extra traffic on Sundays and before golfers get to it in the morning? 

Oh yes! I have witnessed bus loads of tourists wait at the side of the 18th fairway then running out to the bridge in groups of four or five between/just after the group of golfers who have passed it. They have about a ten minute window before the next group can tee off. It’s almost balletic in the timing!
F.

[Kalen Braley]

I know its a public access kind of deal and all that,

Do people scurry out there in between groups on playing days to take pics?  Or is most of the extra traffic on Sundays and before golfers get to it in the morning? 

Oh yes! I have witnessed bus loads of tourists wait at the side of the 18th fairway then running out to the bridge in groups of four or five between/just after the group of golfers who have passed it. They have about a ten minute window before the next group can tee off. It’s almost balletic in the timing!
F.

Yea,

That's where I would think they would draw the line, that's pretty bad form.  Lord knows the R&A makes enough money off TOC to post a couple of full time security guards there to nip that in the butt during play..

[James Reader]

I know its a public access kind of deal and all that,

Do people scurry out there in between groups on playing days to take pics?  Or is most of the extra traffic on Sundays and before golfers get to it in the morning? 

Oh yes! I have witnessed bus loads of tourists wait at the side of the 18th fairway then running out to the bridge in groups of four or five between/just after the group of golfers who have passed it. They have about a ten minute window before the next group can tee off. It’s almost balletic in the timing!
F.

Yea,

That's where I would think they would draw the line, that's pretty bad form.  Lord knows the R&A makes enough money off TOC to post a couple of full time security guards there to nip that in the butt during play..

The R&A doesn’t make anything off TOC.

[Sean_A]

I know its a public access kind of deal and all that,

Do people scurry out there in between groups on playing days to take pics?  Or is most of the extra traffic on Sundays and before golfers get to it in the morning? 

They have about a ten minute window before the next group can tee off. It’s almost balletic in the timing!
F.

Or not. Last time there folks were waiting on the tee for people to clear off. The situation really calls for a marshal. It was a bit crazy.

Ciao

[Matthew Rose]

Wow, they didn't waste any time.

[Marty Bonnar]

Embarrassment is a powerful force.
F.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-64538420

[Bruce Katona]

Design 102: "Form Follows Function".


No skin in this game and no one asked BK to opine on the design solution, but:


When I initially saw what was installed I said to myself -"Self - The Links Trust did this as a solution to turf wear and tear around the bridge approach." This made logical sense, and I wasn't aware that busloads of tourists sprint onto the course between groups for a selfie or as JK opines - alcohol fueled nighttime selfies. Frankly, if I wanted a selfie on the Bridge and couldn't get a tee time on TOC, I'd take a drive on a Sunday - isn't the course closed to play?


A circular bridge approach for golfers and tourists makes sense - the bridge can be approached from all directions distributing turf wear and tear. This eliminates a line of wear and tear from pedestrians being funneled onto one route to access the bridge.


 Did anyone do a mock up and take a pix of themselves standing on the paved circle?  I'm thinking that may have presented a good photo op and was incorporated into the design solution.


The stone color of the paved approach didn't immediately catch or bother my eye; though on study, there could have been a better choice made.


I noticed there wasn't a circle on the egress side of the bridge. I imagine the turf gets wear and tear there as well but perhaps the walking paths are a bit more disbursed.


What did catch my eye was on this design solution was the less than ideal regrading of the lip of the paved patio circle and how the hard edge didn't blend into the adjacent area well at all. That, IMHO, was the design fail, which called attention to this fix.  IMHO, if this paved extension was blended better and graded properly into the existing conditions, we likely wouldn't be having this 1st world discussion.


Much like the "Save the Sacred Tree on my Home Course" diatribe, heaven forbid anything change @ TOC, though someone observed nature changes the place daily and that seems acceptable.


The way some of this board reacted to this, you'd have thunk The Vatican painted over the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel with one coat of Behr beige paint/primer.

[Mark Pearce]

No room here for that sort of sensible analysis, Bruce.  It didn't look great.  But it wasn't a war crime.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Nobody was going to take photos ON the patio. It was to reduce wear and tear of people standing there to take the photos and to walk up onto the bridge. Most photos there don't even really include the area before the bridge - it's people standing on it with the R&A building in the background. No?

It was still hideous.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Bruce,


A few counterpoints:


- Even if “Form follows Function” is followed 100% of the time, worn grass needing to be replaced occasionally is not, let’s say, dysfunctional.


- A circular approach to path egress and access makes perfect sense. But it wasn’t circular and it wasn’t “designed” in to the bridge, either in scale or material. There was one on both sides intended.


- The work was not completed so I assume the regrading of the surrounding area was going to happen.


The way the board reacted was correct. It was a terrible solution.

[archie_struthers]

 


wow , it looks hideous!




Yea


they are ripping it out!





[size=78%] hold that grass [/size]

[Marty Bonnar]

Bruce,
If you’re of the belief that this is a bit of a ‘storm in a teacup’, perhaps you’re on the wrong discussion group. The response has come from a far wider audience than this group.
This is far from a minor gaffe. It’s as much to do with whether or not the Links Trust (or, more accurately, the Links Management Committee) has, by going ahead with this work, contravened local Planning Law and/or, made material change to a ‘Designed Landscape’ as designated by the national guardians, Historic Environment Scotland.
Given that half of the appointed members of the Trust and the Committee are from Fife Council (and the land is owned by them!), it’s astonishing that the work went ahead without consultation or the necessary permission. The speed of the corrective work is more than testament to that.
Cheers,
F.


PS I just want to reiterate the earlier comment by someone that the bridge is ‘B’ listed. This is the SECOND-HIGHEST designation that can be given to a building/structure in terms of protection from unsuitable ‘development’.


PPS I just checked the Council records of ‘Conservation Areas’ which add yet another level of protection. Yup, the bridge sits right on the edge of the St Andrews one.

[Mark Pearce]

So the bridge is protected but the course isn't (a group of us spent a lot of time looking into that, or whether the members of the Trust were failing in their duties as trustees when the changes to the course were made 10 or so years ago).  Count me in the obvious minority but I'm not sure that's the right way round. 

[Thomas Dai]

Restoration or renovation??
Atb

[Bruce Katona]

Thomas:


If it was me, I'd be arguing it was a renovation - I'm using the existing disturbed footprint and tying into the footings of the existing bridge.  Permitting and approvals are one of the things I get compensated for. One of the few guys that's even better at it than me is John Kavanaugh.


Martin: 90+% of the time you and I are on the same page, this time not.


I'm also of the very strong opinion pineapple has no business being added to the top of pizza, no matter if it's NY thin crust, Chicago Deep Dish or the square Sicilian style they serve in Detroit.

[Kalen Braley]

To bring things full circle...

Is the ongoing plan then to just re-sod it from time to time, given that the course basically never closes? (The foot traffic is likely much worse on Sundays)

And/or is there any way to implement a temporary barrier around it on Sundays? Or is that just asking for more trouble with people climbing over it and such to get the snap?

P.S.  Bruce, agreed with no Pineapple on Pizza, but I had some on a Thai dish last night and it was terrific!

[Josh Bills]

I love this photo of The Old Course and how little development there is surrounding it.  According to the caption the photo is from 1850.  The bridge was there and in similar form and another spelling (Swilkin).  I'm glad they removed the new stone patio. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Not forgetting that the bridge is over 700 years old.


The fact that it is on the golf course is in someways incidental.

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