Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design

[hhuffines]

That’s interesting about the planning process.  I have full faith in the PCC staff!  My issue is I’m just trying to learn enough to understand what our board is trying to do to our course up here in Raleigh.  We’ve enjoyed the best playing conditions in years and they think they can fix what ain’t broken.


There apparently is no zoysia on #4 and #8 after the renovations.



Can’t wait to see what y’all do down there! Thank you!



Hart

[Peter Sayegh]

Tom, I get the sense from this thread that your relationship to the client is different from your previous projects.

Do you feel PCC wanted Renaissance Golf Design or "Doak Pinehurst?"

The club's website boasts an opening concurrent with the '24 Open. Is that realistic?

Again, best wishes to you and your team.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, I get the sense from this thread that your relationship to the client is different from your previous projects.

Do you feel PCC wanted Renaissance Golf Design or "Doak Pinehurst?"

The club's website boasts an opening concurrent with the '24 Open. Is that realistic?

I'm always trying to understand what the client wants; that's harder when the client is an entity instead of an individual.  [I sent them some questions a week ago and they are still working on them!]  They also have seen fewer of my courses than my typical client has, so it's not as easy to ask what they like about my work.  Everybody likes Pacific Dunes, but that isn't always relevant!


The second question, I don't get what you're driving at.


As to the third, yes, it's realistic.  The plan is to have everything shaped and grassed by the end of this summer, and they are thinking about sodding fairways, which would speed up the grow-in process considerably.  Of course, everything has to go right for all of that to happen, but I don't think it's unrealistic, and we are highly motivated because we have other places to be come fall.

[Ben Stephens]

https://twitter.com/the_fried_egg/status/1617526200846684160?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


A good analysis by AJ re Fried Egg about this proposal for the Pit (OCM are doing similar to Long Island GC in Melbourne with three (not five) different course variations

[Jonathan Cummings]

Do you really think folks will confuse the "10" as a Doak rating and not a logical sequential number name?  My sense is that the vast majority of visitors (and future players of 10) to Pinehurst have never heard of the Confidential Guide.  Hell, quite a few have likely never heard of Doak!  The "10" moniker and its potential double meaning would only resonate with us few gca whack jobs not the general playing public.   

[Tom_Doak]

Do you really think folks will confuse the "10" as a Doak rating and not a logical sequential number name?  My sense is that the vast majority of visitors (and future players of 10) to Pinehurst have never heard of the Confidential Guide.  Hell, quite a few have likely never heard of Doak!  The "10" moniker and its potential double meaning would only resonate with us few gca whack jobs not the general playing public.   

It’s not like I invented the meaning of “a 10” as “the best” and I don’t know that anyone is shying away from that, although, everyone in Pinehurst knows which course is the top dog and I don’t think anyone expects that to change.

[Peter Sayegh]

Do you really think folks will confuse the "10" as a Doak rating and not a logical sequential number name?

No, and it's shocking to me that this thought even arose.
I think Tom "awarded" an 11 one time in the past.
Have you seen the non-GCA forums? Pinehurst X seems the resounding favorite. May look great on merch, but I'd be surprised if PCC went that direction.

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom, I get the sense from this thread that your relationship to the client is different from your previous projects.

Do you feel PCC wanted Renaissance Golf Design or "Doak Pinehurst?"

The club's website boasts an opening concurrent with the '24 Open. Is that realistic?

I'm always trying to understand what the client wants; that's harder when the client is an entity instead of an individual.  [I sent them some questions a week ago and they are still working on them!]  They also have seen fewer of my courses than my typical client has, so it's not as easy to ask what they like about my work.  Everybody likes Pacific Dunes, but that isn't always relevant!


The second question, I don't get what you're driving at.


As to the third, yes, it's realistic.  The plan is to have everything shaped and grassed by the end of this summer, and they are thinking about sodding fairways, which would speed up the grow-in process considerably.  Of course, everything has to go right for all of that to happen, but I don't think it's unrealistic, and we are highly motivated because we have other places to be come fall.

Tom,


Paul Rudovsky and I are planning to visit the site the week of March 20th. Can you say whether clearing will be completed and whether we will be able to get a sense of where holes will be?


Looking forward to seeing the property.


Thanks,


Tim

[Bill Gayne]

I do like the marketing idea of going Roman numeral with Pinehurst X.


Congratulations to Tom and his team! The more Doak in reasonable driving distance to me the better.

[Greg Krueger]

Just wanted to bump this and see if there is an update on how things are going.

[Tom_Doak]

Just wanted to bump this and see if there is an update on how things are going.

So far, so good.  I approved seven greens as shaped in mid February and those have been cored out and rebuilt with greens mix.  Clearing is done for the next six holes, so that we can start shaping those, with the goal of having them finished on my visit at the end of March.  But the pump station is not yet operational, so we don't have water to do any finish work yet.

[Greg Krueger]

Thanks Tom, that is exciting! I went by the other day and there was a lot of activity going on. The weather has been good as well which certainly helps.

[Jerry Kluger]

I believe that C & C changed the irrigation on #2 during their work and I was wondering what type of irrigation will be used on #10? Did Hanse change the irrigation on #4 during his work?

[Ira Fishman]

The Fried Egg has a nice video of Angela Moser describing the 17th hole.

[Tom_Doak]

I showed around Tim Weiman and our neighbor Paul Rudovsky yesterday afternoon; I will let them weigh in on what they saw, if they wish.  I'm in town for 6 more days and we hope to have 12-14 greens checked off by the time I leave.  We are into the more dramatic parts of the property now . . .

[Erik J. Barzeski]

The Fried Egg has a nice video of Angela Moser describing the 17th hole.

Could you point the way, Ira? I didn't see it on the main page, the ClubTFE page, or the YouTube channel.

[Ira Fishman]

The Fried Egg has a nice video of Angela Moser describing the 17th hole.

Could you point the way, Ira? I didn't see it on the main page, the ClubTFE page, or the YouTube channel.

It was in the Fried Egg newsletter. Maybe you need to try approaching it from a better angle.


Ira

[Erik J. Barzeski]

It was in the Fried Egg newsletter. Maybe you need to try approaching it from a better angle.

Thanks.

So, the link is here: https://twitter.com/pinehurstresort/status/1638889165755408384

[Matthew Rose]

Half the responses to that tweet are "is there going to be a bridge?"

 

[Peter Sayegh]

Maybe X IS in play for the next course.
Bought a VI hat (never seen before) a couple weeks ago.

[Tim_Weiman]

I showed around Tim Weiman and our neighbor Paul Rudovsky yesterday afternoon; I will let them weigh in on what they saw, if they wish.  I'm in town for 6 more days and we hope to have 12-14 greens checked off by the time I leave.  We are into the more dramatic parts of the property now . . .

Tom,


Wish I caught this earlier. Obviously, I liked what I saw. A big plus is that it appears #10 will have its own character distinct from the other Pinehurst courses: big and bold but with a sense of intimacy due to the proximity of greens to the next hole tees and the recurring ability to stand on a tee and look back at play on the previous hole. That really appeals to me.


While the course looks like it will be challenging for better players, there seemed to be substantial width in landing areas, so there shouldn’t be too many balls hit into the woods.


No mention of #10 would be complete without mentioning the topography and elevation change throughout the course. I suspect thinking carefully about club selection is going to be a recurring theme throughout the course.


Finally, #17 is going to be a big hit IMO. There are lots of forced carry Par 3s in the world of golf, but this one just seems to have a unique character due to the green and view of all the water from the tee. Also, I think the excitement will build when putting on the #16 green.


FYI, I am planning to return in the back half of October and hopefully with Kevin Frost in the spring to convince him to do a painting of #17.


Congrats to you, Angela and the rest of your Renaissance team. Can’t imagine #10 won’t be a big winner.

[Jay Mickle]

Greens to be sprigged next week. Her is a wonderful 2:40 min fly over:
https://youtu.be/cPNZzFQ8uMk

[Tom_Doak]

I got a laugh how they swerved from the first hole to the third fairway!  The second hole is still a work in progress.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Tom,


Are you regularly sodding fairways from start to finish on your projects? Obviously it’s dollar dependent but is it grass type dependent too?


Ally

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

Are you regularly sodding fairways from start to finish on your projects? Obviously it’s dollar dependent but is it grass type dependent too?

No, we did it at Stone Eagle and some parts of St Patrick’s (robbing sod from other areas), but those are the only projects I can recall.  Pinehurst just happens to have a big sod farm down the road, which makes it easier.  It’s a hilly site, which helps justify the added cost, but it was entirely a client-led choice.


Courses using some other fairway grass types (particularly zoysia) do have to sod, but I’ve yet to build a project with zoysia fairways.