Become a GCA By School of Hard-Knocks?

[Mike_Young]

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[Peter Bowman]

He’ll still be in his 60’s in 2050. There is time for experience.

Amen. Maybe I’m just still young and naive (like when I was 12 dreaming to be a dentist) but 60 and 70s ain’t old and I hope I’m *choosing* to work a little at 80–we’ll see when I get closer. Been working on the health and bio hacking for longevity for a while now so I can improve those odds.  Haven’t succeeded in getting my hair back though. Thanks for the faith John.

[Peter Flory]

It would seem to me that if you're a newcomer to the industry and you're financially secure, developing your own course (or buying one and renovating it) would be the way to go, even if you had to supplement with friends/ investors.  i.e. be the architect, but also the guy who hires the architect. 

[Ira Fishman]

Wow. Just wow.

Can you elaborate, Ira? Maybe I'm dumb about this, but… I don't see anything TD said that rates as "wow." I agree with much of what Tom wrote.

Erik,


As I noted elsewhere, language can be elusive. I misinterpreted Tom’s post. My apologies.


Ira

[Thomas Dai]

A couple of years ago I started a thread herein entitled something like ‘The most difficult aspects of being a golf course architect’. The responses from those in the business themselves were both insightful and enlightening. Inside the bubble might not be what it seems from outside.
Atb

I hope I find that thread.Similarly in the dental world there are lots of threads discussing how challenging or miserable it is for many

Found the old thread I raised about the hardest and most time consuming aspects of being a golf course architect - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67141.msg1611769.html#msg1611769
atb

[John Emerson]

I haven’t read all of the responses, but something I haven’t seen mentioned is the turfgrass management aspect of golf design and the ability to think about the future needs and management requirements. This is whole skill set in itself aside from just shaping and construction.

[Peter Bowman]

I haven’t read all of the responses, but something I haven’t seen mentioned is the turfgrass management aspect of golf design and the ability to think about the future needs and management requirements. This is whole skill set in itself aside from just shaping and construction.

I can definitely appreciate this aspect, considering I have more exposure to course maintenance and turf management than I do hands-on design

[archie_struthers]

 


Hey guys sounds like our subject is pretty sharp but suggesting he buy a course rather than a job ? 


A lot cheaper to fail as a shaper than lose millions...and running a place might look easy but  












   "putts don't walk in"

[Don Mahaffey]

Hey guys sounds like our subject is pretty sharp but suggesting he buy a course rather than a job ? 


A lot cheaper to fail as a shaper than lose millions...and running a place might look easy but  

I’d love to hear how many architects entered the field by purchasing a course to start their career.

[Peter Bowman]

Hey guys sounds like our subject is pretty sharp but suggesting he buy a course rather than a job ? 


A lot cheaper to fail as a shaper than lose millions...and running a place might look easy but  












   "putts don't walk in"

Running a course is DEFINITELY
not easy or highly profitable, and I only have a small part in that.  It is fun though.  I’m thankful for the partners I have doing it.

[Peter Flory]

Hey guys sounds like our subject is pretty sharp but suggesting he buy a course rather than a job ? 

A lot cheaper to fail as a shaper than lose millions...and running a place might look easy but  

   "putts don't walk in"

Ravisloe was purchased for something like $3.4MM and that was a Ross country club with a pretty nice history and great bones.  The buyer was a veterinarian and a non-golfer.  But if the buyer would have been a dentist with architectural aspirations, his first job could be restoring the Ross gem to its highest potential (de-treeing, widening the fairways to their original dimensions, etc).  Could hire a management company to run it. 


Starting with restoration work instead of original design seems like a good stepping stone.  The downside is much less because the budget is less and you could theoretically keep operations going during the process, depending on the level of restoration.  Could string it out over a few years and combine a lot of personal labor into it instead of out of pocket funding. 


Didn't Pete and Alice Dye self fund one of their first designs? 

[Thomas Dai]

Build 1 hole.
Believe some Doctor in Leeds did that once.
If it turns out good enough …….
atb

[Peter Bowman]

Hey guys sounds like our subject is pretty sharp but suggesting he buy a course rather than a job ? 

A lot cheaper to fail as a shaper than lose millions...and running a place might look easy but  

   "putts don't walk in"

Ravisloe was purchased for something like $3.4MM and that was a Ross country club with a pretty nice history and great bones.  The buyer was a veterinarian and a non-golfer.  But if the buyer would have been a dentist with architectural aspirations, his first job could be restoring the Ross gem to its highest potential (de-treeing, widening the fairways to their original dimensions, etc).  Could hire a management company to run it. 


Starting with restoration work instead of original design seems like a good stepping stone.  The downside is much less because the budget is less and you could theoretically keep operations going during the process, depending on the level of restoration.  Could string it out over a few years and combine a lot of personal labor into it instead of out of pocket funding. 


Didn't Pete and Alice Dye self fund one of their first designs?

That’s about the closest and first opportunity I’ll get. Fortunately, Hooper GC hasn’t changed much since S&vK finished the project 96 years ago. The greens have seemingly shrunk and lost some of their character. I’ve been pushing from within the Greens Comm to make a plan to restore these. The main objection: “Are you joking??? then we’ll have sprinklers inside the putting surface!”


My responses is to visit Whitinsville where many of their 9 greens have sprinkler heads near the edges of their greens, yet they’re ranked #1 in the US and we’re #7. Basically, these owner members don’t want to change what they’ve been familiar with or potentially make the course harder. They went so far as to remove and fill-in one of architects’ front bunkers on our 6th hole.  I was outvoted on that.


In time, perhaps…

[Jeff_Brauer]

All other things being equal, moving green side sprinklers isn't that expensive, presuming the sub-mains aren't under the green.  Even if they are, your crew could trench new 2-2.5" pipe around the greens.  If re-doing greens, you probably would want to upgrade the sprinklers around them anyway, as protection of your investment.

[Peter Bowman]

All other things being equal, moving green side sprinklers isn't that expensive, presuming the sub-mains aren't under the green.  Even if they are, your crew could trench new 2-2.5" pipe around the greens.  If re-doing greens, you probably would want to upgrade the sprinklers around them anyway, as protection of your investment.

Good advice Jeff.  Sub-mains are not under the greens AFAIK.


I’ll need to learn what the most practical (In this case, affordable and reliable) way to alter the grasses during the expansion that doesn’t affect play and revenues with any downtime. It doesn’t need to be a fast change. With accurate info on costs, time and impact on pkwy and revenues, perhaps I can sway the greens comm over the next couple years.

[Jeff Schley]

Peter aren't you glad you asked this question? If you are still gung ho then we all can't wait for your first design.

[Peter Bowman]

Peter aren't you glad you asked this question? If you are still gung ho then we all can't wait for your first design.

100% more eager! starting with the first response (by TD)


Funny, my wife was stressing out about all the crap she and I have to do for the dental practice. She’s basically the remote big boss (not a dentist) who handles all the dull crap like taxes, payroll, HR. I provide the marketing ideas and copy, she gets it out to the real world.  I basically said “well, if you want out, we can sell and we’ll have enough where I can start swimming in these shark infested golf design waters.” Methinks she still wants me in dentistry