After the Lido...What is the next best lost course in North America?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Tough to say for sure, John, but Mill Road Farm in Lake Forest, IL may be considered.


In 1939, National Golf Review ranked it 23rd out of the top 100 courses in the world.


William Flynn design that is now sadly covered by homes.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2009-06-26-0906240565-story.html


https://lflb.passitdown.com/stories/41935


https://www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php?topic=21454.0

[Sven Nilsen]

In 1939, National Golf Review ranked it 23rd out of the top 100 courses in the world.

You do know the story of that list, don't you?

[Brad Tufts]

Royal Links (Las Vegas)

I totally wanted to hate it but it was fun! 


And even if the holes weren't anything like a links, it made them try something that wasn't just your normal Vegas palm tree/fake creek affair.  The whole imitation thing felt very Vegas (baby, Vegas) in its own different way.

[Tony_Muldoon]

As Peter and I said, it is incredibly difficult (or expensive) to relocate any NLE course unless it was engineered with sand from a flat site.


Somewhere like The Addington New - with lots of elevation change - is near an impossibility.


The Lido was made to be re-made!

Ally,  the council 'acquired' the land for housing that was never built. The problem would be that I don't know of any still existing plans, so it would just be an approximation. Shame because its the one  I'd most like to play.

[Ally Mcintosh]

As Peter and I said, it is incredibly difficult (or expensive) to relocate any NLE course unless it was engineered with sand from a flat site.


Somewhere like The Addington New - with lots of elevation change - is near an impossibility.


The Lido was made to be re-made!

Ally,  the council 'acquired' the land for housing that was never built. The problem would be that I don't know of any still existing plans, so it would just be an approximation. Shame because its the one  I'd most like to play.

So you mean to rebuild in place? Many of the other suggestions seem to also be about rebuild in place… but the essence of the thread seemed to be rebuild elsewhere.


Even so, much of the land of The Addington New did have houses built on it. Not sure how many of the original hole corridors could be restored if desired. Perhaps a hashed together 9 holer at most I suspect.

[Adam G]

El Caballero and Fox Hills by George Thomas also have to be in the mix. Both NLE (the current El Caballero is RTJ) in Los Angeles. El Caballero is his most mythical NLE design.

[Andrew Carr]

Timber Point Golf Course.  There are 16 original green sites and 12 original holes there.  It's only politics and money standing in the way of a course that deserves to be restored probably more than any other in North America.  What's even better is the original course map humbly hangs in the bar above the fire place, where practically no one that plays there notices it.  I know this has been covered at length, but since Lido has been brought back from the dead, is it too much to ask to revive a stroke victim?  Weak pun needing explanation: it's currently a 27 hole facility across the original 18 hole land.

[Craig Disher]

As challenging as The Lido was Flynn's Boca Raton South. It's fate was similar to The Lido - taken over by the Army in WWII and eventually repurposed for a housing development. During it's time it was considered one of the finest courses in the country and probably the equal of any in Florida. Aerial photos and Flynn's plans exist. At 6700 yds, perhaps 250 acres of flat, sandy ground would be all that's needed.

[Niall Hay]

Does Gibson Island count as a lost course?


I'll also mention Overhills, Annapolis Roads, original Deepdale, Links Club, Timber Point

Timber Point by Alison in NY would be a great one.

[David_Tepper]

How about Tillinghast's Norwood Country Club in West Long Branch, NJ? Lost to housing development in the late 1930's. The clubhouse was repurposed as a community center.

[Adam Lawrence]

As Peter and I said, it is incredibly difficult (or expensive) to relocate any NLE course unless it was engineered with sand from a flat site.


Somewhere like The Addington New - with lots of elevation change - is near an impossibility.


The Lido was made to be re-made!

Ally,  the council 'acquired' the land for housing that was never built. The problem would be that I don't know of any still existing plans, so it would just be an approximation. Shame because its the one  I'd most like to play.

So you mean to rebuild in place? Many of the other suggestions seem to also be about rebuild in place… but the essence of the thread seemed to be rebuild elsewhere.


Even so, much of the land of The Addington New did have houses built on it. Not sure how many of the original hole corridors could be restored if desired. Perhaps a hashed together 9 holer at most I suspect.

If you look at Google Earth and use the historical aerials feature you can see Addington in 1945. There are about four holes of the New intact, three that are about half there, and the rest are under the houses.

[Craig Disher]

How about Tillinghast's Norwood Country Club in West Long Branch, NJ? Lost to housing development in the late 1930's. The clubhouse was repurposed as a community center.

Norwood was a beauty and a real loss. The problem with recreating a course like Norwood is that it's nearly impossible to build on the original ground contours that influenced the design - as Peter mentioned above. Recreating the Lido didn't face that issue since the original was built on essentially flat ground. The ground contours of the Lido and BR South were completely manufactured and rested on sandy soil.
Overhills would be a real possibility. As far as I know the ground has been unchanged since the course closed and many original manufactured features are still visible.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

There was a course, featured on this site years ago, that was originally built or designed by  Mackenzie in Argentina which was to be reimagined somewhere in TX. I can't remember the name of it, or I would've found the link to it and posted... maybe someone else does.

[Stephen Smith]

I don't know where they fall in the "best" discussion, but I miss Marsh Harbour (Calabash, N.C.) and the Pit (Aberdeen).

[David_Tepper]

Wayne W. -

El Boqueron is the one you are thinking of:

https://moegolf.net/2011/10/08/the-lost-mackenzie-of-el-boqueron/

Except the course was "lost" before it ever got built.


DT

[Sven Nilsen]

As challenging as The Lido was Flynn's Boca Raton South. It's fate was similar to The Lido - taken over by the Army in WWII and eventually repurposed for a housing development. During it's time it was considered one of the finest courses in the country and probably the equal of any in Florida. Aerial photos and Flynn's plans exist. At 6700 yds, perhaps 250 acres of flat, sandy ground would be all that's needed.

Another Flynn in Florida, Normandy Shores, was created on fill much like the Lido.

[Thomas Dai]

Wayne W. -
El Boqueron is the one you are thinking of:
https://moegolf.net/2011/10/08/the-lost-mackenzie-of-el-boqueron/
Except the course was "lost" before it ever got built.
DT

Never built but here’s a bunch of information including analysis of where on the Argentinian estancia it was to be located - [size=78%]https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38874.0.html[/size]
Atb

[John Challenger]

A slightly different question: What if we could build the the best submitted-but-never-constructed golf course design in the world? Such as, Raynor's design for Cypress Point. What golf course should be computer-modelled and built first?

[Tim Martin]

With putting courses in vogue if would be fun to see Mackenzie’s original 12th green at Sitwell Park replicated.

[Ally Mcintosh]

A slightly different question: What if we could build the the best submitted-but-never-constructed golf course design in the world? Such as, Raynor's design for Cypress Point. What golf course should be computer-modelled and built first?

There will be tons of these that we’ll never know about, given how many courses have been built following architecture competitions or direct bidding battles. Just to mention two, it would be fascinating to know what Robin Hiseman’s “Castle Course” would have turned out like… or Tom Doak’s “Olympic Course”…. I choose those two because of their relative blank canvas sites.

[David_Tepper]

"A slightly different question: What if we could build the the best submitted-but-never-constructed golf course design in the world? Such as, Raynor's design for Cypress Point. What golf course should be computer-modelled and built first?"

Two contenders would be Mackenzie's El Boqueron in Argentina (referenced above) and Seth Raynor's 1918 plan for a course at the Olympic Club where the Lake course now sits. Raynor's plan is posted on the wall in the men's locker room there. 

[Matthew Petersen]

Sharp Park is what first occurred to me but I see it has been mentioned.


Thus I will throw into the discussion a couple of Thomas courses that have been wrecked over time. The first is Ojai, which of course has been mistreated by time, war, and even those who were supposedly restoring it. There are still some awesome golf holes there but to think of what it must have been like a hundred years ago is rather heartbreaking.


The other would be his original routing at Griffith Park, back when the river was wild and before the interstate was built. The holes on the Wilson course that are west of Crystal Springs Dr are still pretty good (these are the ones that more or less maintain the original Thomas routing, the others were re-routed thanks to the highway and other land grabs from the park).

[Tim_Weiman]

The Lido is the only one that I can think of where building it in another location made sense- because it was originally built upward off of a flat site. 

For the rest, I really don't think moving them to a new location would be feasible.  But there are a lot that could theoretically be reconstructed right back where they originally were. 

East Potomac is one that should actually happen.  Sharp Park is one that can't be rebuilt exactly because of the sea wall and other constraints, but it can get back a lot of what was lost.  Shawnee is one that I find interesting- although it would depend on them wanting to do it, which I have no idea. 

I have a back of the mind fantasy of trying to get them to revive the 3 hole loop (4- Cape, 5- Short, and 6- Hill to Carry/ Eden) at Ocean Links that is just sitting there under the bushes- maybe as a kids/ community course that could be maintained by Newport CC or something.

Peter,


The Tour 18 here in Houston supports your view about the choices other than the Lido. The topography just doesn’t match the holes. The Pebble Beach 14th is especially bad.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Wayne W. -
El Boqueron is the one you are thinking of:
https://moegolf.net/2011/10/08/the-lost-mackenzie-of-el-boqueron/
Except the course was "lost" before it ever got built.
DT

yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. Thanks!

Never built but here’s a bunch of information including analysis of where on the Argentinian estancia it was to be located - [size=78%]https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38874.0.html[/size]
Atb

[Lester George]

Gibson Island, Lost 9 and unbuilt 18.  Macdonald said it would be the best golf club in America! Better than NGLA and Lido!