OWGR and LIV golfers

[John Kavanaugh]

Too bad the Saudi’s didn’t make their nut on Bitcoin.

[Ken Moum]

The players own the tour. The players hired Monaghan and if they don’t like the job he is doing they can fire him. I’m sorry that the best Euro’s and international players prefer to play the PGA tour than the DP tour. It’s been that way for what, the last 30+ years. Get over it.

Why are you sorry ? I'm not. Good on them. They're professionals who are just trying to do the best for themselves, just like the guys playing on LIV. No need for rancour.


Niall

I totally agree. I actually have gained respect for Perez (not that hard given what I thought of him before), and think that all those guys in their 40s did the right thing taking LIV money. 


But some of the LiV golfers think they ought to be able to cherry pick events to play on the other tours despite the fact that if Norman gets what he wants, the other tours will be gutted.  Of course lots of people are overlooking the fact that what Norman has wanted for 30 years is to stomp on the PGA Tour.

[Sean_A]

The players own the tour. The players hired Monaghan and if they don’t like the job he is doing they can fire him. I’m sorry that the best Euro’s and international players prefer to play the PGA tour than the DP tour. It’s been that way for what, the last 30+ years. Get over it.

Why are you sorry ? I'm not. Good on them. They're professionals who are just trying to do the best for themselves, just like the guys playing on LIV. No need for rancour.


Niall

Niall


I am with you. I don't particularly care about any tour nor 90% of tournaments. However, IMO, any leading tour in the long run will be better off for being more international than is currently the case. The Tour is a bit like politicians in that they won't see beyond an election cycle.


Ciao

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I am with you. I don't particularly care about any tour nor 90% of tournaments. However, IMO, any leading tour in the long run will be better off for being more international than is currently the case. The Tour is a bit like politicians in that they won't see beyond an election cycle.

Why should the PGA Tour be so much more "international"? The U.S. is where the market is, and where the money is. And where the PGA Tour is, too.

The PGA Tour has a few international events, but anything more than a small increase in the number would be folly. Their members don't want to have to travel across the globe, and there's limited upside (and $) internationally for the PGA Tour, whose sponsors are looking to reach the U.S. market.

And TV viewing times? International places are lousy for that, so their TV partners don't really want them going international too often, either.

[Kalen Braley]

And its not limited to just golf.

Nearly every elite basketball, baseball, football, and hockey player also play primarily in the US (with a few teams in Canada).  Just be thankful we let the Euros keep soccer with the EPL! 

[Ian Mackenzie]

So, is Greg Norman going to get whacked by the Saudis and replaced by the TaylorMade Adidas guy?


As much as the LIVers have gone all in on the number 54, I think a fair compromise would be for them to host 72 hole tournaments and open up 10 spots for "Monday qualifiers" and have a cut.


They want the rest of the golf world to apparently bend to their perceived financially-driven inertia, but yet somehow believe that they dont need to amend a thing with their business plan.


The arrogance is palpable. Why is there no indication from them on being just a tiny bit flexible?


In the absence of that, they are playing a different game than the rest of the world.


Play the same game, get the same points.


Press the button, get a cookie.

[Sean_A]

Press the button, get a cookie.

This in a nutshell sums up pro golf. This approach has fostered unwatchable drivel. The entire landscape of pro golf is broken and needs a complete rethink.

Ciao

[Tim Martin]

It looks like Rory is starting to capitulate somewhat as to finding a compromise with LIV on the condition that Greg Norman goes. The Saudi Golf Federation has indicated publicly that there is no plan to get rid of Norman. Game on!

[Rob Marshall]

Looks like Reeds attorney is all in on golf…….


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/11/15/florida-court-lawsuit-liv-golf-owgr-pga-tour/

[JLahrman]

It looks like Rory is starting to capitulate somewhat as to finding a compromise with LIV on the condition that Greg Norman goes. The Saudi Golf Federation has indicated publicly that there is no plan to get rid of Norman. Game on!

I feel as though McIlroy's public comments have been in this vein for several months now. He obviously doesn't care for Norman, but the fact of the matter is that if LIV were truly seeking to work with the PGA Tour in a collaborative manner that would allow the two to coexist and complement one another, Greg Norman would be possibly the worst choice to head up LIV.

[Ken Moum]

It looks like Rory is starting to capitulate somewhat as to finding a compromise with LIV on the condition that Greg Norman goes. The Saudi Golf Federation has indicated publicly that there is no plan to get rid of Norman. Game on!

I feel as though McIlroy's public comments have been in this vein for several months now. He obviously doesn't care for Norman, but the fact of the matter is that if LIV were truly seeking to work with the PGA Tour in a collaborative manner that would allow the two to coexist and complement one another, Greg Norman would be possibly the worst choice to head up LIV.

If LIV was truly hoping to work with the PGA Tour and/or the DP World Tour, they wouldn't be trying to hire the 48 best players in the world to play 14 (or more) times a year. Few of those players compete more than about 25 times a year, with 14 LIV events and four majors, they would only be cherry-picking a few events elsewhere.


That would be the effective end of the PGA Tour, and Norman not only knows it, he apparently would welcome it.


The failure of the WGC series to gain traction after it was started only proves to me that he was wrong back in the 90s, there's not great attraction for fans in seeing the best players pulled out of normal Tour events so they can play against each other here, or around the world.


FWIW, I just read Shackelford's take on it, and he thinks the "elevated event" idea will also fail...and I agree with him.

[Mike Bodo]

I feel as though McIlroy's public comments have been in this vein for several months now. He obviously doesn't care for Norman, but the fact of the matter is that if LIV were truly seeking to work with the PGA Tour in a collaborative manner that would allow the two to coexist and complement one another, Greg Norman would be possibly the worst choice to head up LIV.

To LIV's credit, they've purposely avoided scheduling events that conflict with the majors, for obvious reasons, and the PGA Tour's elevated events. Which begs the question, why wouldn't the PGA Tour welcome the LIV contracted golfers to these events if it it elevates the quality of the field and viewership interest? Most of the guys on LIV didn't support lesser PGA Tour events when they were PGA Tour members anyway, so it's really no loss to the Tour as far as the quality of field that shows up to a Sanderson Farms Championship, Valero Open or John Deere Classic, to site some examples. Those events should either a) disappear entirely from the Tour calendar or b) become Korn Ferry tournaments.


The problem is you have butt-hurt, egotistical jerks running both leagues. The best thing that can happen is for both Jay Monahan and Greg Norman to step down from their respective positions and hire executives willing to make this work for the benefit of all. There will most likely be a merger of the two at some point, but that's year's off in the distance.


In short, this doesn't have to be an "us" vs. "them" proposition. Were Rory McIroy, Jordan Spieth, Justin Thomas and Jon Rahm to walk into Jay Monahan's office today and present him with an ultimatum to the effect of "Allow the LIV guys to play whatever PGA Tour events they want for the good of the league or we're walking", watch how quickly Monahan capitulates, as their defection would seal the demise of the PGA Tour as an ongoing concern. The upside to this is that it would allow all top professional golfers to play in LIV events and sign team contracts. Seeing the league only plans to have 60 rostered golfers going forward (one alternate on each team), this leaves a good chunk of non-LIV talent to play the other tours and flourish there.

[David Cronan]

Looks like Reeds attorney is all in on golf…….


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/11/15/florida-court-lawsuit-liv-golf-owgr-pga-tour/

Larry Klayman representing Patrick Reed is perversely poetic.

[Mike Bodo]

Looks like Reeds attorney is all in on golf…….


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/11/15/florida-court-lawsuit-liv-golf-owgr-pga-tour/

Larry Klayman representing Patrick Reed is perversely poetic.

Professional men's golf has become a freaking side show better suited for the National Enquirer! All these frivilous lawsuits need to stop so that cooler heads can prevail in order to arrive at some kind of truce, as this is doing nothing but causing irreperable harm to the sport.

[Rob Marshall]

I feel as though McIlroy's public comments have been in this vein for several months now. He obviously doesn't care for Norman, but the fact of the matter is that if LIV were truly seeking to work with the PGA Tour in a collaborative manner that would allow the two to coexist and complement one another, Greg Norman would be possibly the worst choice to head up LIV.

To LIV's credit, they've purposely avoided scheduling events that conflict with the majors, for obvious reasons, and the PGA Tour's elevated events. Which begs the question, why wouldn't the PGA Tour welcome the LIV contracted golfers to these events if it it elevates the quality of the field and viewership interest? Most of the guys on LIV didn't support lesser PGA Tour events when they were PGA Tour members anyway, so it's really no loss to the Tour as far as the quality of field that shows up to a Sanderson Farms Championship, Valero Open or John Deere Classic, to site some examples. Those events should either a) disappear entirely from the Tour calendar or b) become Korn Ferry tournaments.


The problem is you have butt-hurt, egotistical jerks running both leagues. The best thing that can happen is for both Jay Monahan and Greg Norman to step down from their respective positions and hire executives willing to make this work for the benefit of all. There will most likely be a merger of the two at some point, but that's year's off in the distance.

Please give me an example of what makes Monahan a egotistical jerk? I see a guy doing his job protecting the tour and the tours owners who happen to be the players.

Greg Norman has had a hard on for the tour for 30 years. He finally found someone to finance it. I frankly haven’t heard any current or former regular tour player say a nice thing about Greg. Part of me thinks he never got over his major championship collapse’s and the disappoint has been turned into this vendetta. He should have one what 7 or 8 majors. If he’s successful he can add the collapse of the PGA tour  to his already impressive résumé.

[Mike Bodo]

Please give me an example of what makes Monahan a egotistical jerk? I see a guy doing his job protecting the tour and the tours owners who happen to be the players.

Jay Monahan has let his anger and bitterness with Greg Norman and LIV cloud his decision making. As with Norman hard line in the sand, his inflexibility on the issue of allowing LIV contracted golfers to play PGA Tour events has greatly hurt the Tour's product. Their ratings are tanking - especially the lesser events. Viewership of this past week's tournament in Houston was down 50% from last year. Gee, I wonder why? Could it have been that four of the Top 5 finishers from last year's event were banned from playing due to their association with LIV? Methinks, yes.

[Kalen Braley]

To LIV's credit, they've purposely avoided scheduling events that conflict with the majors, for obvious reasons, and the PGA Tour's elevated events. Which begs the question, why wouldn't the PGA Tour welcome the LIV contracted golfers to these events if it it elevates the quality of the field and viewership interest?

Mike,

If they did this, that would be the death knell of the PGA Tour, because then players could have thier cake and eat it too.

As I see it, the only thing keeping more top guys from jumping right now at the massive money is being cut off from PGA Tour events and OWGR points to get into majors.  If you let them back in for select events, the PGA Tour would be LIV's bitch within a year.

P.S.  The reason ratings were down are due to football... golf always underperforms against that.  Hell it wasn't even on TV on Saturday, I had to find it on the Peacock App just to watch a bit of footage.

[Kalen Braley]

Jon Rahm certainly seems to be the voice of reason on all of this...for now.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/jon-rahm-blasts-new-world-ranking-formula-as-laughable-takes-swipe-at-greg-norman-for-his-vendetta/ar-AA14bb06?cvid=57e5d9b4488542d5af069928ae420e16

[Rob Marshall]

Please give me an example of what makes Monahan a egotistical jerk? I see a guy doing his job protecting the tour and the tours owners who happen to be the players.

Jay Monahan has let his anger and bitterness with Greg Norman and LIV cloud his decision making. As with Norman hard line in the sand, his inflexibility on the issue of allowing LIV contracted golfers to play PGA Tour events has greatly hurt the Tour's product. Their ratings are tanking - especially the lesser events. Viewership of this past week's tournament in Houston was down 50% from last year. Gee, I wonder why? Could it have been that four of the Top 5 finishers from last year's event were banned from playing due to their association with LIV? Methinks, yes.

What? Top 5 from 2021 were Kokrak, Scheffler, Tway, Kickok, Dahmen and Trainer.


You think the ratings are down because the guys listed other than Scheffler were banned? BTW isn't the Kokrak the only one on LIV. I must have something wrong here. Please correct me because one of us has the facts wrong.


https://www.google.com/search?q=2021+houston+open+final+results&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS865US865&ei=uyZ1Y-ecI6akptQP4ZulgAI&ved=0ahUKEwin5o6ypbP7AhUmkokEHeFNCSAQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=2021+houston+open+final+results&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIFCCEQqwIyBQghEKsCOgoIABBHENYEELADOgcIABCABBANOggIABAIEB4QDToKCCEQwwQQChCgAUoECEEYAEoECEYYAFCECli6EGD6F2gBcAF4AIABbogBnQSSAQM1LjGYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


Monahan represents the tour players and their wishes.

[Mike Bodo]

Mike,

If they did this, that would be the death knell of the PGA Tour, because then players could have thier cake and eat it too.

As I see it, the only thing keeping more top guys from jumping right now at the massive money is being cut off from PGA Tour events and OWGR points to get into majors.  If you let them back in for select events, the PGA Tour would be LIV's bitch within a year.

You may be right, but I disagree you can't have players participate in events in both leagues and have them survive in their present form. Were LIV to increase the number of events from 14 say to 18 or 20, then that changes things. Also depending on how LIV contracts are structured, players may only be required to show up to 10 or 12 of the 14 events next year, which provides opportunity for the alternates on each team to play and gives them time to play elsewhere if they so choose.


However, were a select number of Top 10 players to defect the PGA Tour for LIV it's a moot point, as the Tour would be dead as we know it unles they allow LIV professionals to play in their events.   

P.S.  The reason ratings were down are due to football... golf always underperforms against that.  Hell it wasn't even on TV on Saturday, I had to find it on the Peacock App just to watch a bit of footage.

The tournament is always pitted against college and pro football given its place on the calendar, which is unfortunate, as Memorial Park presents itself great on TV and it's a pity so few see it.

[Mike Bodo]

What? Top 5 from 2021 were Kokrak, Scheffler, Tway, Kickok, Dahmen and Trainer.

You think the ratings are down because the guys listed other than Scheffler were banned? BTW isn't the Kokrak the only one on LIV. I must have something wrong here. Please correct me because one of us has the facts wrong.

My bad. I meant 2020. The one and only time the event had a respectable field.

1. Carlos Ortiz
2. Dustin Johnson
3. Hideki Matsuyama
4. Talor Gooch
5. Brooks Koepka

You and me will have to agree to disagree on Jay Monahan, as the only reason he's brought anything of value to the PGA Tour is because of the pressure he was under to prevent more top golfers from defecting to LIV. He's been reactive, not proactive the entirety of the dispute.

[Charlie Goerges]

Jon Rahm certainly seems to be the voice of reason on all of this...for now.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/jon-rahm-blasts-new-world-ranking-formula-as-laughable-takes-swipe-at-greg-norman-for-his-vendetta/ar-AA14bb06?cvid=57e5d9b4488542d5af069928ae420e16

I read through that. Toward the end he defended Sergio saying "I don't think his fans care where he plays". I suppose technically that's right... if you don't have any fans, by definition they can't care where you play.

[Mike Bodo]

I read through that. Toward the end he defended Sergio saying "I don't think his fans care where he plays". I suppose technically that's right... if you don't have any fans, by definition they can't care where you play.

The other telling comment from the article was this.


“I’m not going to lie and tell you I agree with everything the PGA Tour has done,” Rahm continued. “It was a mistake and a wasted opportunity to not meet with LIV. Both sides missed the mark on that. And that is where a lot of the animosity started. Even if they disagreed, it would have been good to talk. So to get a resolution we might need one or both of them gone. I hope not. Jay has done a great job for the PGA Tour.”


Rahm's throwing Monahan a bone in the last sentence after saying he and the Tour essentially screwed up by not meeting with LIV before things got out of hand. As I stated in a previous post, Rahm agrees that it may require both Norman and Monahan stepping down in order for the situation between the two competing interests to be resolved amicably.

[Ben Hollerbach]

The failure of the WGC series to gain traction after it was started only proves to me that he was wrong back in the 90s, there's not great attraction for fans in seeing the best players pulled out of normal Tour events so they can play against each other here, or around the world.

Maybe the inability for the WGC’s to gain traction was because Norman was wrong. Or maybe it is because 70% of all WGC events still took place in the US, during the regular PGA Tour season, diminishing the perspective that they were anything other than regular events to much of the golf watching audience.


The failure of the WCG’s from becoming anything more than they have has a lot more to do with the PGA Tour desire to only provide them lip service, rather than truly boost them as strong international events.

[Mike Bodo]

Maybe the inability for the WGC’s to gain traction was because Norman was wrong. Or maybe it is because 70% of all WGC events still took place in the US, during the regular PGA Tour season, diminishing the perspective that they were anything other than regular events to much of the golf watching audience.


The failure of the WCG’s from becoming anything more than they have has a lot more to do with the PGA Tour desire to only provide them lip service, rather than truly boost them as strong international events.

You're 100% spot on in both assessments. I coudn't agree more.


The only WGC event that brought anything of interest to me, aside from the match play event in Austin each spring, was the tournament at Chapultepec Golf Club just outside Mexico City. That event drew incredible crowds, the course was fabulous and the final round drama was some of the best of the golfing year. I don't know why they changed the venue and or got rid of it, but for the two or three years it was held there it was one of the best events.