Landmand merits discussion - All 18 holes under discussion

[Cal Carlisle]

Vaughn's photo with Tye teeing off is a pretty good illustration of what you see at the tee shot. From the tips I hit 3H in that saddle between the two bunkers and had a clear view of the green on the approach. This is probably the highest percentage play.

A shot over the left bunker from back is going to have to be absolutely roasted (270-280 carry?). Land short of the left bunker and you have a blind shot into the approach. Anything hit through the saddle or over the right bunkers is going to filter off into an awkward approach from the fairway, or into the sedge.

On Monday afternoon we played from green / yellow tees and the tee shot can clear the left bunker if you can carry it 250 -260. That berm on the left (beyond the bunker) steers everything down to the green. Go left of the bunker and it probably misses the berm and shoots in the sedge.

That hump in front of the green adds a degree of difficulty to the shot facing those that landed on the right side of the fairway.

[V_Halyard]

Landmand #2 tee shot with our pal Tye



Landmand 2 Fairway



Landmand 2 Green

Was Tye the young man mentioned on the Rob Collins podcast (TGH 90 -- very good interview if you haven't listened)? That backswing would seem like a fit for the story.

Hey Buck and yes, The Treadwell is the Junior referenced in the Pos with Tad. He is fun to watch. The Redan was a revelation to him. We’ll share that if/when the discussion reaches Hole 14.

[Jason Thurman]

Ok, what is the best par 4 in Nebraska and why is it 3 at Landmand?

[Doug Bolls]

I could never rate an uphill par 4 as the "best" - however, I liked that little creek/scar thing running down from the front left of the green.  I liked it so much I hit into it on both rounds!  Since I'm left-handed I had a good place to stand - for a right-hander the ball could be well below your feet with an awkward stance. 
Best play is right of the creek-thing with a clear opening into the green.  Left brings the bunkers into play if you miss short.
It's rated as #1 handicap on a windy day - fortunately we didn't experience that.
Fun hole for me.

[Kevin_Reilly]

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[Peter Flory]

I could never rate an uphill par 4 as the "best" - however, I liked that little creek/scar thing running down from the front left of the green.  I liked it so much I hit into it on both rounds!  Since I'm left-handed I had a good place to stand - for a right-hander the ball could be well below your feet with an awkward stance. 
Best play is right of the creek-thing with a clear opening into the green.  Left brings the bunkers into play if you miss short.
It's rated as #1 handicap on a windy day - fortunately we didn't experience that.
Fun hole for me.

I hit into the scar thrice.  I guess I didn't fear it enough off the tee. 

[Sean_A]

Honestly I was thinking "corn" too, Bruce. It's more accurate than 98% of the uses of "heather" when it's inaccurate, and it's accurate 25% of the time.

Yes, I got an earful of heather on my recent US trip and didn't see any. But isn't corn raising the same issue...unless the rough is corn? Depending on the lie of my ball and my disposition it could rough, crap or shit.

Ciao

[Jake Marvin]

Because I can't find an updated version online, here's the card:








This was one of the shortest 7200s I've seen, whereas Omaha felt like one of the longest 7000s in the country.

[Jake Marvin]

Ok, what is the best par 4 in Nebraska and why is it 3 at Landmand?

I wanted to be contrarian and pick some par four at Landmand that's better, but damn this is a pretty good golf hole.


The beauty of the hole for me is that there is always a motivation to challenge the barranca. It compares favorably to another version of that feature found at 14 at Sutton Bay, where the left side of the cut is the shortcut to reach the green in two. There, there isn't really a reason to challenge the feature - the angle isn't better and there aren't any particularly awkward lies across the fairway - so anything that ends up in the cut is a wayward shot. At Landmand, whichever fairway you aim for, the best part of it to be on is near the hazard. I heard a surprisingly high number of players (given that this was a GCA event) exclaim that they hit the shot they wanted on this tee box, and of those swings it was a pretty even split of balls in Position A and balls which required some, shall we say, crafty recovery.


Also, shoutout to one of the more understated greens on the course, which will almost certainly go underappreciated because it dared to exercise a bit of restraint.


I would like to know, though, did anyone go left on purpose because it was the smart play? I saw a couple of people play there, but only due to mishits or the desire to see that side of the course. The challenge of these holes is generally ensuring that there are compelling reasons to play from either side. Besides potentially a pin deep right, I don't necessarily see the need for the left fairway.

[V_Halyard]

I would fall in with the premise that 3 is a front runner for best par 4.  For me, hard to beat the shock and drama of the reveal as you crest the hill on hole 2 fairway on the way to the 2nd green. Without prior knowledge, while standing on the 2nd tee, you would be are unaware of the valley lurking around the corner from the 2nd hole.  First sight of that big valley makes you immediately ponder the various pathways for your ball. "What is the line and which side of the barranca/Dry Creek bed do you favor?" The risk reward of flying the large bunker carved into the hillside to hug the right side is both enticing and sobering. The assumption even at first glance is that right side pays dividends.. and pain.

Left side is safer but that leaves you blocked from a direct shot to the green.
The whole thing is visually unexpected, dramatic and demands repeated anticipatory glances while you are still trying to navigate to or putt on the 2nd green. It also gives you a visual forecast of the potential drama lurking atop the ridge above #4.



Walk from #2 Green to #3 Tee  V. Halyard Photo



Landmand #3 V. Halyard Photo

[Cal Carlisle]

Jake,


I agree with you in that there really wasn't a compelling reason to go left, especially if you're like me and your miss is to the left. Pull the shot and you're hitting from the sedge with little hope of getting to the green.


When faced with a hazard in the middle of the fairway my "go to" move is to employ the "George Constanza Law of Opposites". Aim directly down the line of the creek bed and watch your drive sail left or right. Very rarely does this strategy ever really fail.

[Jason Thurman]

Does there really need to be a reason to try to go left?


The barranca challenges the ideal position. The short grass left of it provides some forgiveness for a pull. I don't think it would be a better hole if everything left of the barranca was corn instead, even if my intended line wouldn't change.

[Morgan Clawson]

I think its important to mention how great the first hole is purely from a visual and emotional standpoint.

Your first glimpse of #1 from the club house is very impactful.  The green seems incredibly far away, thus introducing you to the vastness of the the site.

The uphill rise of the hole helps to convey that you are starting a great journey.

The large green with the false front tongue and the enormous greenside bunker are alluring.

King & Collins laid it all out there for you to see on #1, and to great effect.

[Morgan Clawson]

#2 is a good and unique hole. I like that you can hit a variety of clubs and lines from the tee.


The little mound in the front center of the green certainly makes the second shot more thoughtful.


Great photo from Doug Bolls:

[Morgan Clawson]

#3 is a real stunner from the tee box.


The shorter tees line-up more with the left half of the hole with the longer tees lining up on the right side.


I played from a shorter tee (yellow), which brings the barranca more in play I believe.


Kudos to King & Collins for adjusting the tee shot difficulty for the different sets of tees throughout the course.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I found no reason to go left. It is a really good hole. The drive is not the hard part. The second shot to this very sloping undulating green is the test.

[Jake Marvin]

It wouldn't be a meaningfully better hole if the left fairway was corn, but I don't think it would be meaningfully worse. Despite my comment, I'm in no way saying that fairway should be taken out from an architectural perspective. Just raising a thought I have standing on that tee box.


I also can't help but think about this place as a going concern, and a few of us discussed the operations side over the course of the weekend. Making this work economically could be a challenge, given location/lack of nearby complements/20-minute tee times/proposed pricing structure/short season, etc. (If anyone who understands the plan more than I do wants to correct me, please do so.) They are also maintaining a lot of grass. From that perspective, we might think critically about a few places where extra fairway/green isn't adding a ton of value to the architecture.


Just nitpicking what I agree is a great golf hole.

[V_Halyard]

It wouldn't be a meaningfully better hole if the left fairway was corn, but I don't think it would be meaningfully worse. Despite my comment, I'm in no way saying that fairway should be taken out from an architectural perspective. Just raising a thought I have standing on that tee box.

I also can't help but think about this place as a going concern, and a few of us discussed the operations side over the course of the weekend. Making this work economically could be a challenge, given location/lack of nearby complements/20-minute tee times/proposed pricing structure/short season, etc. (If anyone who understands the plan more than I do wants to correct me, please do so.) They are also maintaining a lot of grass. From that perspective, we might think critically about a few places where extra fairway/green isn't adding a ton of value to the architecture.

Just nitpicking what I agree is a great golf hole.

Grandfather, you are wise and might I share one thought with you and Thurm regarding the left fairway.
We did not have the wind on blast when we played this past weekend.
On the days when it blows hard, given this is a retail golf course, the left side of the fairway keeps a higher percentage of folks in play.
I'm thinking that piece of land keeps folks in the game and relieved they are not part of the fall harvest.

[Kalen Braley]

Because I can't find an updated version online, here's the card:








This was one of the shortest 7200s I've seen, whereas Omaha felt like one of the longest 7000s in the country.

Was that a misprint on the original card or some interesting psychology.  Red are the Tiger tees and Black the all-the-way-up ones?

[Tim Gavrich]

Number 3 is my personal favorite hole at Landmand. I love non-sand "hazards" and I think the grassed-over dry creek running down the middle of the fairway is both functional and attractive.


I'm going to cautiously dub the third green one of two "reach-around" greens on the course, with the other being #9. On both greens you have this back-right swoop feature with a mound on the inside of the boomerang. There's no getting at those flags from the popular side of the fairway, so on both holes, the left landing area is going to be preferred. It's probably a 1 in 10 situation given the size of the greens and the variability of the hole locations, but I would venture that if those left-side landing areas didn't exist on either hole, those specialty hole locations wouldn't really be viable.

[Bruce Wellmon]

3 is truly an amazing hole. So good.

[Eric Smith]

Was that a misprint on the original card or some interesting psychology.  Red are the Tiger tees and Black the all-the-way-up ones?

Kalen,


Red is the power color in Nebraska.

[Morgan Clawson]

It wouldn't be a meaningfully better hole if the left fairway was corn, but I don't think it would be meaningfully worse. Despite my comment, I'm in no way saying that fairway should be taken out from an architectural perspective. Just raising a thought I have standing on that tee box.


I also can't help but think about this place as a going concern, and a few of us discussed the operations side over the course of the weekend. Making this work economically could be a challenge, given location/lack of nearby complements/20-minute tee times/proposed pricing structure/short season, etc. (If anyone who understands the plan more than I do wants to correct me, please do so.) They are also maintaining a lot of grass. From that perspective, we might think critically about a few places where extra fairway/green isn't adding a ton of value to the architecture.


Just nitpicking what I agree is a great golf hole.

Jake -


A few other things to consider from an business costs standpoint:


The Andersen's already owned the land, so there weren't any acquisition costs there.


The area where the golf course is wasn't being actively farmed, so they didn't have to give-up any corn or beans revenue.


The club house is blissfully modest.  I believe they are using an existing barn to store the equipment.  And using a food truck is a smart move too.

[David Kelly]

Ok, what is the best par 4 in Nebraska and why is it 3 at Landmand?

I would like to know, though, did anyone go left on purpose because it was the smart play? I saw a couple of people play there, but only due to mishits or the desire to see that side of the course. The challenge of these holes is generally ensuring that there are compelling reasons to play from either side. Besides potentially a pin deep right, I don't necessarily see the need for the left fairway.

I deliberately went left on #3 during my first round and can now tell you that there is absolutely no reason to be left.  I don't see any advantage there no matter where the pin would be set.

[Jason Thurman]

Let's get on to hole 4.


Surprisingly, I think it's the hardest hole for a first-timer that we've seen to this point. The big risks on the first 3 holes present themselves clearly, and extra forgiveness lurks for some errant shots. The 4th fairway has a tendency to shrug balls away to the right, and the green doesn't reveal itself as one of the course's great hazards until you reach it.


The green is reachable for big hitters. Certainly no more than a drive-and-pitch. Even a long iron off the tee will put most players in range of a wedge approach. Almost regardless of tact taken, the approach will be very challenging.


I respect the hole. I fear it a little. I don't feel great affection for it. Maybe that's kind of the point. Certainly not your average "grab your driver and see what happens" short par 4.