Is there any doubt Oakmont is the hardest course in the world?

[Joel_Stewart]

I just returned from Oakmont and I’m still traumatized.


Didn’t lose a ball. Hit a lot of good shots and chipped in on #4 for a birdie. Made a few pars and still would have shot 100 if all the shots were counted. It’s absolutely relentless and the Pittsburgh heat and humidity don’t help. Miss the narrow fairways and you’re probably in one of the 185 bunkers.


I texted some friends at Olympic saying it’s 10 shots harder then Olympic and 5 shots harder than Shinnecock.


I’ve been known to have a temper but at Oakmont you can’t get mad because it’s just insanity. The greens were 13-14. If you miss a 5 foot putt you probably have a 10 footer coming back. If you’re putting downhill then your next shot may be a chip.


The club is buzzing about what Gil’s restoration will do. He’s saying it will make it more difficult for the pros but more playable for the members.


If you haven’t played it don’t comment.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I just returned from Oakmont and I’m still traumatized.

I haven't played every "tough" course in the world, or even probably more than four or five that might be in the running, but… I don't know that I've found any more difficult.

Edit to add: I love a good grind, too. Oakmont may be my favorite course.

[Steve Lang]

  I find it difficult to believe that a restoration making it more playable for the members will not rub off on how the pros will play it...  good luck Dr Gill!

[Erik J. Barzeski]

  I find it difficult to believe that a restoration making it more playable for the members will not rub off on how the pros will play it...  good luck Dr Gill!

Rough (instead of bunkers) often make a course easier for members yet tougher for PGA Tour players.

Also, width can make things easier for members… because firm greens are tough for PGA Tour players when the ball starts rolling. Many ams are used to the ball rolling a bit, so the wider fairways just let them hit them more often. (I won't die on that hill, though, as the Tour players will hit more fairways, too, and the rough even at a normal PGA Tour stop is a 60-yard penalty. So I may have talked myself out of that one.) Pros will play different TEES of course. So they can be given different angles, landing areas, etc.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Kiawah and Shinny in windy conditions are as tough.   Even the TPC Potomac - beast of the Beltway - in non windy conditions may be as tough day in day out to score on.

[Mark_Fine]

Joel,
I have played Oakmont a dozen or more times.  No question it is a tough track but you might want to play it a few more times before drawing your conclusion.  I tend to play it pretty well, horses for courses, but regardless of how difficult you think it is, the course is simply outstanding and inspiring to play.  Obviously a better golfer will enjoy it more but it is playable.

[Colin Sheehan]

While Oakmont is indeed a monumentally difficult championship test of golf, it isn't as penal as a few courses out there, courses with way more lost ball, out of play opportunities that are as long, if not longer. The Blessings Course at University of Arkansas, Karsten Creek at Oklahoma State and Rich Harvest Farms are three that come to mind. They also happen to be three relatively recent hosts of the NCAA D-1 Men's Championships.


When Oakmont hosted the U.S. Amateur last summer, a player from Harvard finished second after the 36 holes of medal qualifying and broke 70. How hard could Oakmont be?

[Keith Phillips]

While Oakmont is indeed a monumentally difficult championship test of golf, it isn't as penal as a few courses out there, courses with way more lost ball, out of play opportunities that are as long, if not longer. The Blessings Course at University of Arkansas, Karsten Creek at Oklahoma State and Rich Harvest Farms are three that come to mind. They also happen to be three relatively recent hosts of the NCAA D-1 Men's Championships.


When Oakmont hosted the U.S. Amateur last summer, a player from Harvard finished second after the 36 holes of medal qualifying and broke 70. How hard could Oakmont be?

we need a 'Like' button

[George Pazin]

When Oakmont hosted the U.S. Amateur last summer, a player from Harvard finished second after the 36 holes of medal qualifying and broke 70. How hard could Oakmont be?

 


Depends on how you define hard. It’s certainly hard to score on, but in talking with others, I think you learn to score better the more you play it. I’d guess it always leaves you feeling like you could’ve or should’ve scored a little better.


My trip ‘round was a delight, even though I played about as badly as I can play. I’ve come to realize that was mostly nerves - my hands were literally shaking on the first tee. I whiffed, in fact. 1 awful and 6 ok shots later, I tapped in for triple. Considering 2 shots were awful or worse, that’s not that hard, I think.


And that’s kinda how my round went. My awful shots were indeed awful, but would’ve been awful anywhere. At least I could find and play them. My other shots were mostly fine. And more than a few resulted in memories I will never forget.


Mostly, I just felt really bad for my caddy, Rick. My wonderful host said he’s the best caddy at Oakmont. He had to have been frustrated at my inability to follow his helpful suggestions. I think I did make him say wow twice, the good wow, not the bad one. That he probably thought a hundred times.

[Keith Phillips]

Played Oakmont once, in a one-day member-guest 20 years ago.  It was a shotgun and we started on 8, the long par 3.  I started with a double then played lights out (for me) - I was a 14, shot 84 and we tied for first in the member-guest.  Easy-peasy!


As someone known to spray the ball, I find many courses more penal - maybe not 'tougher' but definitely more penal.



Oakmont is my favorite inland golf course.  It will be fascinating to see what Gil does with this masterpiece.

[JMEvensky]

An Oakmont thread can always draw George out of hiding.

[George Pazin]

An Oakmont thread can always draw George out of hiding.

   I’m on vacation, have free time.


I will now take everyone through my round, shot by shot……

[cary lichtenstein]

I played Oakmont once, it beat the shit out of me. I shot 87 and just couldn't wait to get off the course. I took a double on the 1st hole after what I thought was a perfect drive, then bogey, par, birdie, so I got over my double on the first hole, but the course was relentless and beat on me.


Finally, after about 15 or 16 holes, I said to my wife: "I can't wait to finish and get off this course."


I'm sure if I played it 5-10 times, I could learn how to play it better, but I came away with a "why would I ever want to subject myself to this kind of punishment ever again?"


I can't think of another course that approaches that toughness.

[George Pazin]

I can't think of another course that approaches that toughness.

Honest question: how did your find the ocean course and tpc sawgrass?

[JohnVDB]

I payed Oakmont a few times during my 5 years living there. Joel, your post marches one of my thoughts.  It is the hardest course you can play without losing a ball. It tests every aspect of your game on every hole. I loved it even though I knew I’d never be good enough to play it regularly.

[Niall C]

If you haven’t played it don’t comment.

I'd just like to comment that I haven't played it.


Niall

[Jeff Schley]

Greens wise yes I agree it is very difficult and I didn't play it years ago with the trees.  Tee to green it is very tough even with fairways that are wider than the open widths.


The hardest course I have played, especially when factoring in typical weather is RCD.  It was tighter off the tee with gorse as we know.  Greens not as tough as Oakmont but tee to green and conditions make it more difficult imo, but we are talking maybe 1/2 in the world for difficulty.

[cary lichtenstein]

I can't think of another course that approaches that toughness.

I played the Ocean course once and loved it, shot 74. I played Sawgrass once and found it very difficult but fair.


Honest question: how did your find the ocean course and tpc sawgrass?

[Terry Lavin]

Oakmont is the most difficult I’ve played. But I loved the challenge.


Tom Meeks, the USGA legend once told me (20 years ago) that the Ocean Course at Kiawah was the toughest test in the USA. He certainly was qualified to opine in this regard.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Joel is a good player, and has played everywhere (more than most) so this was an informed report.  With caveat that heat index was high, which makes playing anywhere more unpleasant.

[MCirba]

I had the great fortune of being able to play Oakmont about 3 years ago.   I had been been playing really poorly (shot 93 at French Creek the week prior) and was terrified of the outcome, particularly as I was hosted by one of the best players in the club.  Somehow, the evening before I went out to play a really severe Hurdzan/Fry course called Olde Stonewall and after hacking it around made a grip change in the middle of the back nine that was suddenly magical.


Prior to the round John Yerger had advised me very simply...when you get into trouble, and you will, get out of trouble.   It turned out to be sage advice. 


Fast forward to my trembling self on the 1st hole where we find that my 3-iron approach has nestled on the lip for a tap in birdie.   I stagger forward and somehow find myself standing on the 8th tee at 1 over par, having missed a 4-foot birdie attempt on 6.   The wind started picking up and was probably gusting a good 15-20 mph by the time I finished but after taking double on 14 (the only time I neglected John's advice) I finished par, par, par, bogey for an 80 in what was the best ball striking and putting round of my life.   My only 3 putt was on the 9th for a sloppy bogey.


Other than perhaps a crazy good round at Ballyneal last summer, it was probably the highlight of my 50 year golf career.


I will say that Oakmont doesn't get in my head in the same way that tight, tree-lined courses or ones with lots of water hazards in the driving area do and the fact that it looks like open linksland probably had me swinging more freely than I tend to do.   That's a personal preference, though.


**EDIT** - I just looked at the scorecard and see I bogeyed 15 as well with a three putt after hitting Driver - 5 iron into the wind to about 40 feet.

[mike_malone]

I played both Oakmont and Pine Valley enough to say scoring for me is more difficult at Pine Valley.

[John Kavanaugh]

Did the difficulty of Oakmont change when the trees were removed?

[Bruce Katona]

Best 95 of my life was recorded in my only go round to date @ Pine Valley. I did par the #10, the DA, and had the pleasure of hacking out of Hells Half Acre.

[MCirba]

For a guy like me, Pine Valley is tougher because it's unrelenting.


The word I've thought about  after seeing Oakmont's design is "Audacious".   No one would build most of those holes today.