OT: LIV field

[Rob Marshall]

Here is how to watch it:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/liv-golf-london-tee-times-tv-coverage-live-stream-more-to-watch-in-usa/ar-AAYdCO2?cvid=c67c6724b9ca48b584a015f886c22163

[cary lichtenstein]

I can't get over how some clearly feel very threatened by this tour.

I'm curious about this position Brian. If you were a stakeholder of the PGA Tour, how could you not feel threatened?


Are you limiting your view to the current roster of players? I'd suggest that's a mistake. The players not currently going will see the amount of money those "lesser" players make and be very tempted this off season.


As of this moment, Wednesday June 8th, 8:30 EST USA, I've heard Fowler, BDC and Patrick Reed have jumped. These may be false, but it seems with each bit of smoke, there's fire on this deal.





So, That makes 5 or 6 of the 20 most attention grabbing players over the last 10 years moving over. If that doesn't warrant some concern, I don't know what does...

Looks like you are correct and it makes sense for all 3 of these guys, Bryson has a wrist injury and who knows if that will ever heal. I had surgery on my wrist and it never healed. Reed's game is questionable, I wonder if he is hurt too. Ricky Fowler has lost his game, he has tried so hard and at least for him and maybe everyone who is jumping, this secures their financial future. Who among us wouldn't do it??

[Dan_Callahan]

Given the high profile golfers LIV is attracting, I kind of wish they wouldn't go all MTV contrived entertainment with the format. The shotgun start is fine, as is the no-cut policy. But the rest of it ... actually detracts for me. If they went with a small field, no cut, shotgun start, three-day tourney with the golfers currently in their stable ... and on interesting courses ... I would almost certainly watch. Reminds me of the fall silly season back in the day when Freddy would make all his money.


The big names making the jump I think forces the Tour to back down from their previous ultimatum. And as a result, Phil's stated goal is achieved. It was ugly getting there, but in the end I think he is going to get there.


As a side note, Rickie jumping is curious to me. I feel like these days he makes most of his income in endorsement deals. And companies thus far have been quick to yank endorsement deals with those who join LIV. I'm assuming he got enough upfront cash to offset the loss.


I do wish the LIV stop in Boston was a couple of years away, so that it could be played on the C&C renovation at the International. Would be cool to see what's going on there.

[Edward Glidewell]

The big names making the jump I think forces the Tour to back down from their previous ultimatum.

I'm not sure it does. LIV has a stated goal of 14 events a year, and I'm certain they're going to expect their players to play in all 14 considering the money they're getting upfront.


With the 4 majors (assuming they qualify), that's 18 events. Most top players don't play much more than that in a year as is -- I don't think there's any chance they would then play in an additional 11 events to hit the PGA Tour minimum.


Those guys aren't going to play in 30 events a year.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I don't believe this is at all about Sports Greenwashing, after all it hasn't gone well so far has it.    They can't be enjoying the attention on their Human Rights record at all.


It's an attempt to buy into big time sports and 'own' top level professional golf. With tourisms decline due to Covid, is "Sports" now the Worlds biggest 'industry? IS there any other high profile sport which offers the chance to buy the whole thing?


In future the Saudis will just be the bankers and all the talk will be of The Liv tour. If they can get through the first year(and I think they can) it could become unstoppable. Will they expand into Seniors Golf? Why not, they'll already 'own' half the field.  But will they support lower tours or raise money for local charities, probably not so much.  Like other sports today the rewards will flood to the peak and the rest of the field won't share. If you are one of todays senior (i.e. past your peak) players and agree with this analysis, its a 'no brainer' to pick up the hard cash offers that are such easy pickings. It's the next generation of defectors that will scare the Status Quo.


Be careful what you wish for...

[Tim Gavrich]

This great scene from No Country For Old Men seems to encapsulate the way I feel about this whole thing: weary, confused, depressed. The acknowledgment of what big money causes people to do and "the dismal tide" underpinning it all.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfTAOsRki0E

[Brian_Ewen]

Here is how to watch it:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/liv-golf-london-tee-times-tv-coverage-live-stream-more-to-watch-in-usa/ar-AAYdCO2?cvid=c67c6724b9ca48b584a015f886c22163

Or


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuC-Is0pVH9RudfZJw-LSmw/videos

[Jim O’Kane]

With the announcement of additional players joining the fold, one thing occurred to me, a common thread amongst some of them.


That thread being that they're not exactly well liked inside the locker room of tour events.


DJ-drug issues and marital affairs
Phil-has been referred to as FIGJAM for years by other players
Reed-kicked off UGA's team for stealing from his teammates. Bubba was seen openly mocking him last week at the Memorial.
BDC-slow play and pompousness. ANGC is a par 68 for me.
Na-slow play
Sergio-spitting in the cup; destroying greens and bunkers


I wonder if there's an element of being ostracized on tour that made these guys think, it's not just the money, but I could go somewhere else where maybe I could be accepted a little better, get a fresh start.


To me, it's starting to look like the Island of Misfit Toys tour.


I'll tell ya though, that picture of Phil and DJ that's been making its way around the internet is downright horrifying. You can't tell me those boys were even close to sober when that was taken.

[Tim Martin]

I'll tell ya though, that picture of Phil and DJ that's been making its way around the internet is downright horrifying. You can't tell me those boys were even close to sober when that was taken.

Wouldn’t you have a couple of cocktails knowing the payday that was coming your way? Who cares if they were sober?

[Rob Marshall]

What picture are you talking about?

[cary lichtenstein]

I think opinions on this board and elsewhere are going to change as time goes by and everyone realizes that PGA Tour guarantees you nothing, unlike every other sport. This is about free agency and one's right to do as they please.


The PGA coffers are full. If you do not make the cut, you get nothing. If you don't get endorsements you get nothing. If you are hurt, nothing. These signing bonus's are wonderful.


I still think it's for the 35+ year old golfer but perhaps I'm dead wrong.

[Jim O’Kane]

I'll tell ya though, that picture of Phil and DJ that's been making its way around the internet is downright horrifying. You can't tell me those boys were even close to sober when that was taken.

Wouldn’t you have a couple of cocktails knowing the payday that was coming your way? Who cares if they were sober?

Of course I would. Just looks like a bit more than a couple of cocktails, and specifically more than just cocktails. More like they're higher than hell. I don't give a crap if they are sober or not; this picture speaks volumes.

Here's the picture:

https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-will-permit-phil-mickelson-dustin-johnson-other-liv-players-204552002.html

[John Kavanaugh]

I think opinions on this board and elsewhere are going to change as time goes by and everyone realizes that PGA Tour guarantees you nothing, unlike every other sport. This is about free agency and one's right to do as they please.


The PGA coffers are full. If you do not make the cut, you get nothing. If you don't get endorsements you get nothing. If you are hurt, nothing. These signing bonus's are wonderful.


I still think it's for the 35+ year old golfer but perhaps I'm dead wrong.

It’s a labor issue and labor won.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I think opinions on this board and elsewhere are going to change as time goes by and everyone realizes that PGA Tour guarantees you nothing, unlike every other sport. This is about free agency and one's right to do as they please.


The PGA coffers are full. If you do not make the cut, you get nothing. If you don't get endorsements you get nothing. If you are hurt, nothing. These signing bonus's are wonderful.


I still think it's for the 35+ year old golfer but perhaps I'm dead wrong.

Cary I agree with you.
In time I think the PGA Tour will sit down with the LIV and the two will co exist.
They will agree on about 8 events per year throughout the globe, and all those 'holyier than though" players currently condemning the LIV will jump on board, fill their own pockets with the LIV guaranteed cash and conveniently forget what they had previously said.


I think the lure of the  money will continue to attract more players, feedback from those already committed will be positive to encourage more defections and then the PGA T our will be forced to listen to those who want change on the tour.


I may be wrong, but either that will be the scenario, or the PGA Tour starts a guarantee of income very week cut made or not.

[Tim Leahy]

The USFL and WFL threw big money at top players like Steve Young, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly etc. and ultimately failed in challenging the established league, the NFL. The LIV will fail too because the end product doesn't match the established tour.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

As a side note, Rickie jumping is curious to me. I feel like these days he makes most of his income in endorsement deals. And companies thus far have been quick to yank endorsement deals with those who join LIV. I'm assuming he got enough upfront cash to offset the loss.

Rickie hasn't jumped (yet?).

[Tim_Cronin]

The USFL and WFL threw big money at top players like Steve Young, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly etc. and ultimately failed in challenging the established league, the NFL. The LIV will fail too because the end product doesn't match the established tour.

The AFL, with a mix of old players like George Blanda and new faces, succeeded. The NFL sued for peace in 1966 and the AFL was delighted to merge with the established league.

[Tim_Cronin]

Another way to watch, at least the final round, if you live in Canada or on the U.S.-Canada border near Toronto: CHCH-TV 11 Hamilton. Carried on cable and satellite across Canada and available over-the-air from its Hamilton transmitter. It's replacing infomercials.

[Steve Lang]

The USFL and WFL threw big money at top players like Steve Young, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly etc. and ultimately failed in challenging the established league, the NFL. The LIV will fail too because the end product doesn't match the established tour.

The AFL, with a mix of old players like George Blanda and new faces, succeeded. The NFL sued for peace in 1966 and the AFL was delighted to merge with the established league.

...and i beleive it was ABC Sports who had the big money behind the AFL,  talk about competition... and then there's Joe Namath throwing his frozen ropes

[Tim Leahy]

The USFL and WFL threw big money at top players like Steve Young, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly etc. and ultimately failed in challenging the established league, the NFL. The LIV will fail too because the end product doesn't match the established tour.

The AFL, with a mix of old players like George Blanda and new faces, succeeded. The NFL sued for peace in 1966 and the AFL was delighted to merge with the established league.

The AFL didn't poach established star players from the NFL. Blanda was considered washed up when he was signed by the Oilers in 1960. The AFL caused a bidding war for rookies from college like Namath which is why the NFL did the merger because they were paying too much for rookies. The LIV compares more with the USFL and WFL which were failures.

[Tim_Cronin]

The USFL and WFL threw big money at top players like Steve Young, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly etc. and ultimately failed in challenging the established league, the NFL. The LIV will fail too because the end product doesn't match the established tour.

The AFL, with a mix of old players like George Blanda and new faces, succeeded. The NFL sued for peace in 1966 and the AFL was delighted to merge with the established league.

...and i beleive it was ABC Sports who had the big money behind the AFL,  talk about competition... and then there's Joe Namath throwing his frozen ropes

ABC had the first AFL contract from 1960-1964. NBC threw the big money at it from 1965-69, allowing the Jets to sign Namath and so on.

[Tim_Cronin]

The USFL and WFL threw big money at top players like Steve Young, Herschel Walker, Jim Kelly etc. and ultimately failed in challenging the established league, the NFL. The LIV will fail too because the end product doesn't match the established tour.

The AFL, with a mix of old players like George Blanda and new faces, succeeded. The NFL sued for peace in 1966 and the AFL was delighted to merge with the established league.

The AFL didn't poach established star players from the NFL. Blanda was considered washed up when he was signed by the Oilers in 1960. The AFL caused a bidding war for rookies from college like Namath which is why the NFL did the merger because they were paying too much for rookies. The LIV compares more with the USFL and WFL which were failures.

I'd suggest Westwood and Poulter are in the Blanda mode, and probably Mickelson too. Aside from last year's PGA, he's been a rumor on leader boards when he was playing.

[Brian_Ewen]

I can't get over how some clearly feel very threatened by this tour.

Is anyone taking this worse than Geoff Shackelford?

Have always enjoyed Geoff views on the game of golf, but he seems to be getting very wound up lately about this "LIV Madness"

[Sean_A]

I think opinions on this board and elsewhere are going to change as time goes by and everyone realizes that PGA Tour guarantees you nothing, unlike every other sport. This is about free agency and one's right to do as they please.


The PGA coffers are full. If you do not make the cut, you get nothing. If you don't get endorsements you get nothing. If you are hurt, nothing. These signing bonus's are wonderful.


I still think it's for the 35+ year old golfer but perhaps I'm dead wrong.

Cary

I don't think many question the right of free agency. Many simply don't like the free agency income source...and for very good reasons. On the other hand, there are very good reasons these same people should be directing their anger at the US government and US companies. These entities provide the framework for this crazy golf scenario.

I would like nothing more than the US government, US companies, US golf tours and pros to 100% swear off Saudi or any dirty money. But that ain't gonna happen. So I don't see the point in slamming the last guys in the dirty money sweepstakes line when that line stretches beyond the horizon. Shit, we all benefit from cheap Saudi oil. I hear wars are fought over the stuff.

Ciao

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't get over how some clearly feel very threatened by this tour.

Is anyone taking this worse than Geoff Shackelford?

Have always enjoyed Geoff views on the game of golf, but he seems to be getting very wound up lately about this "LIV Madness"

Wait till the Ryder Cup becomes season 5 of American Idol.