Augusta has a chance to be a remarkable course. Remove the trees/ most bunkers.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
As you know as well as anyone, Flynn loved trees more than most classic designers.  I always felt the reason was because he never ventured across the pond to see/study the great links courses of the British Isles.  He and Dick Wilson also helped usher in the aerial game (even though they still often allowed the ground game to remain in play on many/most of their golf holes). 


The bunkers at Augusta look very unnatural but then again they do on almost all parkland courses.  There was no way Jones and Mackenzie were going to clear cut that property of all the trees.  I do believe they are an inherent part of that course/design.  Unlike Oakmont which had very few trees to begin with, Augusta as has been stated was an arboretum to start with. 


As with most parkland courses it is all about balance and Augusta for the most part has managed the trees fairly well.  As I said, there are still some I don’t care for having walked the course many times but Augusta wouldn’t be Augusta without the trees.  It is one course that has probably evolved for the better especially for tournament golf and for what it is.

[mike_malone]

Mark,


 I’m comfortable that Flynn would not plant pine trees parallel to play. Those are my main issue at Augusta.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
Flynn might not have planted them but he also wouldn't cut them all down.  Augusta was never intended to look like Oakmont does today.  That was my point.  The Augusta property was all about trees on rolling terrain and the holes were routed through them.  Someone correct me if that was not the case. 

[mike_malone]

Mark,


If they were there he wouldn’t have taken them all down but he would have routed the course to keep them away except for doglegs.


I’m not suggesting denuding Augusta just bringing it back to the original strategies even if that means 20 under wins.

[Sean_A]

Anytime I see a touring pro having no choice but to poke a shot into the fairway is a time when there are too many trees/bushes. Why? Because that isn't entertaining. The right trees well placed and properly maintained enhance a course. As soon as a green wall effect is created the cart is in front of the horse. Then there are issues of viewing and aesthetics.

Really? Even a single pitch-out means we have too many trees? A single unexciting shot is too many?


We should only cut pins on mounds. Tap in putts aren't exciting. Any putt of less than 4 feet risks boredom.


And get rid of challenging hazards too. I've seen guys play sideways from the Road Hole bunker. Snooze. Grass it over.

Yep, my preference is to never see a pitch out due to trees or rough. When I do watch golf it is to be entertained. The recovery shot is the most exciting shot in golf. Why would I want too many trees/bushes or rough too high and thick? I have no interest in green walls design on TV. It's fine if that's your bag. Afterall, greenwalls is very popular.

Ciao

[Joe Bausch]

Can’t seem to properly post a photo.

[Thomas Dai]

Early days.
atb

[Thomas Dai]

Anyone recognise this chap standing atop some removed trees?
atb

[mike_malone]

Can’t seem to properly post a photo.

Mr. Coleman on first tee. Mayday in foreground.

[Anthony Gholz]

Early days.
atb

Thomas that's my favorite "early" pic of ANGC>  Herbert Warren Wind published this photo in his book Story Of American Golf.  It shows the classic bunker on 14 and if you look closely at 15 fairway you can see the trees that they now play around which cuts the fairway at least in half.  The property ids definitely tree areas surrounding the center bowl.  I'd like that bowl back plus the bunker on 14. 
Anthony

[Mark_Fine]

Recovery shots are often some of the most exciting shots in golf - no question. But let’s not forget one of the courses that can demand numerous “poke it back into the fairway” shots is The Old Course at St. Andrews.  Sometimes the “poke it back in the fairway” is literally poke it backwards because there is no way to play the ball forward or even sideways.      No one seems to complain about that. 

[Kalen Braley]

Early days.
atb

Thomas,

Thanks for posting this, do you have a few others from different angles?

I don't think anyone is advocating a return to this, but can't a happy medium be found vs the amount of trees that are there now? 7 and 17 might be the starkest contrast in this pic between what was originally there, and the bowling alleys they are now...

#GroundContoursMatter

[Thomas Dai]

Various others etc included within this thread - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67868.msg1694178.html#msg1694178
Atb

[Jerry Kluger]

I would say for the average golfer the course is very palyable - not easy, but playable. It looks far more playable than Pine Valley. Where are the shots that make a hole unplayable? The trees are there but they allow for recovery shots unlike penalty areas.You could view the bunkers as tough but they are a heck of a lot easier than pot bunkers I've been in in the UK. Look at it from the member's tees and it looks very fair.

[Pete_Pittock]

you probably can't play a shot from the pine straw unless there are pine trees

[Jim_Coleman]

   Did I miss something? Did someone declare Augusta broken?
   btw: that picture by Mike was taken without my permission. I’m investigating my rights. A mutual friend did comment, however, that I looked like Freddie Couples. So, no damages

[mike_malone]

   Did I miss something? Did someone declare Augusta broken?
   btw: that picture by Mike was taken without my permission. I’m investigating my rights. A mutual friend did comment, however, that I looked like Freddie Couples. So, no damages

People have asked me if you’re an ogre so I needed to show that you’re just a regular guy.

[Bill Gayne]

It looks like the pro-shop had an end of season sale on sweater vests that all of your wives took advantage of for Christmas or Birthday gifts.

[mike_malone]

It looks like the pro-shop had an end of season sale on sweater vests that all of your wives took advantage of for Christmas or Birthday gifts.

Quite observant Mr.Gayne.


The guy in the distance is a frequent British traveler so I expect his is from there, Coleman is cheap so his is probably from Walmart, mine is from Deal.

[Jim_Coleman]

Amazon

[Ben Hollerbach]

I don't think anyone is advocating a return to this, but can't a happy medium be found vs the amount of trees that are there now? 7 and 17 might be the starkest contrast in this pic between what was originally there, and the bowling alleys they are now...

The area between 3 fairway, 7 fairway, 17 fairway, and 15 fairway may be the most congested portion of the entire course. With the distance players hit their drives today, how important are those trees in protecting play and patrons along the adjacent holes?

[mike_malone]

To make it simple I just believe that Augusta can be a very special place if the pros could approach the greens from many angles and not from as many trees and with fewer green side bunkers.


  It would be a better presentation for the existing site if firm.

[V. Kmetz]

For me, this and similar threads end up flat... for who and why, for what purpose?  I mean none of us are playing the course, right? Or having our ear bent by ANGC members about how its no fun anymore? It's entirely for spectacle and watching elite play upon, correct?


What isn't one receiving in spectacle value currently?  For every eagle on #15 that is being thwarted...an interesting, fretful hold of par is being tested... for every sideways pitch someone doesn't like... there is a compelling pursuit to hold position in the tournament... and the bunkers, what does it matter to anyone individual on the board?... many/most of the bunkers have been in their general location and only tweaked in their monumental appearance for more than 70-75 years.


It is a remarkable course, maybe the most remarkable course, as is, as stewarded over the years by the Masters Tourn Com and the club.  I would pay attention to arguments that tell me WHY it ought to, needs to, should try and be beyond remarkable... who would that serve?


If it's just to whack around the keyboard on a GCA board, ok (but what good information debate does it exchange beyond the same well held opinion in the other myriad threads related to this topic)... specifics, yes...it's fun and worthy to consider for our spectacle and our interest whether or not #7 could fly in the Masters as the Home hole style it was in Mackenzie's design...is there a way is a fun and worthy puzzle... but to just belt out some dissent on trees and bunkers that have been for many years amidst many enjoyable spectacles is ... flat. It's a great course and most often a spectacular tournament to watch.

[Dan Boerger]

What often strikes me about these old photos (and my club has plenty of them) is that there are small trees in many areas. Did the architect think these trees would not grow?


I think the 18th tee shot plays with a lot of drama given the trees on either side.

[Kalen Braley]

I don't think anyone is advocating a return to this, but can't a happy medium be found vs the amount of trees that are there now? 7 and 17 might be the starkest contrast in this pic between what was originally there, and the bowling alleys they are now...

The area between 3 fairway, 7 fairway, 17 fairway, and 15 fairway may be the most congested portion of the entire course. With the distance players hit their drives today, how important are those trees in protecting play and patrons along the adjacent holes?

I'm pretty sure ANGC is not the only course that has to deal with these kinds of issues.  How do they protect the fans at venues like Pebble or on links courses?  Should they all plant trees to justify a one week per year (or less) tourney?