Masters Golf Course Thoughts

[Jason Topp]

Topp, are you sure you've seen divots replaced? Is it possible they're just picking them up and keeping the joint looking pristine?

You could be right. 

[Jason Topp]

Ben: I suppose some questions don’t have answers. But I have heard on more than one occasion that removing trees does not necessarily make a hole easier. I respectfully disagree and believe trees play an important part in golf architecture, particularly for parkland courses.

It will be interesting to see how this era - when so many trees have been ripped out - will be viewed in 25 years.  90% of the time I believe the courses have improved.  I still think it is fun to decipher how to navigate a tree.  I would rather have trees than navigate un-mowed areas on parkland courses.

[Cal Carlisle]

Ben: I suppose some questions don’t have answers. But I have heard on more than one occasion that removing trees does not necessarily make a hole easier. I respectfully disagree and believe trees play an important part in golf architecture, particularly for parkland courses.

It will be interesting to see how this era - when so many trees have been ripped out - will be viewed in 25 years.  90% of the time I believe the courses have improved.  I still think it is fun to decipher how to navigate a tree.  I would rather have trees than navigate un-mowed areas on parkland courses.

-Jason


I’ll agree with you there, as most un-mowed areas on parkland courses are so thick and lush that they may as well be a water hazards.


-Cal

[mike_malone]

Since the early coverage was of holes 4 through 6 I got to thinking how much I like a par three than different  par followed by another par three. I think that is a fun routing.

[Jim_Coleman]

Mike:  This can’t be that unusual a feature, as the two courses at which I play my most golf - Rolling Green (14-16) and Teeth of the Dog (5-7) - both have it. I suspect it’s just what the routing happened to bring rather than a thing.

[Sean_A]

Ben: I suppose some questions don’t have answers. But I have heard on more than one occasion that removing trees does not necessarily make a hole easier. I respectfully disagree and believe trees play an important part in golf architecture, particularly for parkland courses.

It will be interesting to see how this era - when so many trees have been ripped out - will be viewed in 25 years.  90% of the time I believe the courses have improved.  I still think it is fun to decipher how to navigate a tree.  I would rather have trees than navigate un-mowed areas on parkland courses.

Why either/or? Why can't there be less trees and wider playing corridors with playable rough?

Ciao

[Jeff Schley]

Ben: I suppose some questions don’t have answers. But I have heard on more than one occasion that removing trees does not necessarily make a hole easier. I respectfully disagree and believe trees play an important part in golf architecture, particularly for parkland courses.

It will be interesting to see how this era - when so many trees have been ripped out - will be viewed in 25 years.  90% of the time I believe the courses have improved.  I still think it is fun to decipher how to navigate a tree.  I would rather have trees than navigate un-mowed areas on parkland courses.

Why either/or? Why can't there be less trees and wider playing corridors with playable rough?

Ciao

Sean your Augusta invite has been withdrawn by the Chairman!  It is not rough, it is the 2nd cut.

[Sean_A]

Ben: I suppose some questions don’t have answers. But I have heard on more than one occasion that removing trees does not necessarily make a hole easier. I respectfully disagree and believe trees play an important part in golf architecture, particularly for parkland courses.

It will be interesting to see how this era - when so many trees have been ripped out - will be viewed in 25 years.  90% of the time I believe the courses have improved.  I still think it is fun to decipher how to navigate a tree.  I would rather have trees than navigate un-mowed areas on parkland courses.

Why either/or? Why can't there be less trees and wider playing corridors with playable rough?

Ciao

Sean your Augusta invite has been withdrawn by the Chairman!  It is not rough, it is the 2nd cut.

The invite must have been lost in the post . It has been 4 1 years since I set foot on the grounds. Still one of the two best pro golf viewing times of my life. Watson won over Jack,  J Miller and Norman. Proper leaderboard back then .

Ciao

[cary lichtenstein]

Did they make 15 too long?

[mike_malone]

Mike:  This can’t be that unusual a feature, as the two courses at which I play my most golf - Rolling Green (14-16) and Teeth of the Dog (5-7) - both have it. I suspect it’s just what the routing happened to bring rather than a thing.

Don’t recall saying it was unusual. I just like it.

[Jason Topp]

Ben: I suppose some questions don’t have answers. But I have heard on more than one occasion that removing trees does not necessarily make a hole easier. I respectfully disagree and believe trees play an important part in golf architecture, particularly for parkland courses.

It will be interesting to see how this era - when so many trees have been ripped out - will be viewed in 25 years.  90% of the time I believe the courses have improved.  I still think it is fun to decipher how to navigate a tree.  I would rather have trees than navigate un-mowed areas on parkland courses.

Why either/or? Why can't there be less trees and wider playing corridors with playable rough?

Ciao

It certainly could be that way but typically that is not the approach taken on US Parkland courses where trees have been removed.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Did they make 15 too long?

Interesting......


I watched from the bleachers part of two days, and it seemed like 90% of players laid up, but a few hit the green with as little as 9 iron.  The wind was strongly in their face, at least Thursday and Friday.


If I recall, the original idea of ANGC was to have one par 5 nearly everyone can reach (13), one almost no one can reach ( and two that were tweeners (2 and 15).  I think 2 is pretty reachable by all now, and 15 with new length is one of the tweeners, even at "only" 550 yards.  So, I think it served its purpose, no?

[Ben Sims]

Did they make 15 too long?

Interesting......


I watched from the bleachers part of two days, and it seemed like 90% of players laid up, but a few hit the green with as little as 9 iron.  The wind was strongly in their face, at least Thursday and Friday.


If I recall, the original idea of ANGC was to have one par 5 nearly everyone can reach (13), one almost no one can reach ( and two that were tweeners (2 and 15).  I think 2 is pretty reachable by all now, and 15 with new length is one of the tweeners, even at "only" 550 yards.  So, I think it served its purpose, no?

Jeff,


This is a pretty solid observation. More than any recent Masters, I noticed the change in mindset among the players on certain holes due to their universal ability to get it out there a long way. Smith—all 170lbs of him—had an 8 iron into #2 yesterday. #15 was playing considerably different than it has in years past. I saw that no one eagled it for the entire tournament, which has to be very rare.


I surmise that a strong westerly wind at ANGC is likely the hardest wind to score on for the modern player, and it showed for much of the tournament. The most interesting thing to me is that lots and lots of players commented on how the greens are so tricky that flighted shots have no chance. Even with the wind, the best play was to still hit it sky high and hope for the best.

[Will Spivey]

Did they make 15 too long?

I think so. Part of the magic of Sunday at Augusta is the thrill of a possible charge on the back 9. The wind Friday/Saturday was strong into the players, which may be unusual, but no eagles on the hole is a disappointment for me. Risk/reward is the name of the game for that hole. Easy par isn't too exciting on 15 on Sunday. Scoring average on Sunday was under par, however.

[Peter Pallotta]

I thought to myself that, in the context of professional tournament golf, Augusta-Ridley-Fazio-Weather got it absolutely right for four straight days; and that both in absolute terms and certainly relative to other championship courses-and-set ups over these past many years, the National played this week as the absolute ideal venue for a major. That was my 'thought'.

[Jeff Schley]

Did they make 15 too long?

I think so. Part of the magic of Sunday at Augusta is the thrill of a possible charge on the back 9. The wind Friday/Saturday was strong into the players, which may be unusual, but no eagles on the hole is a disappointment for me. Risk/reward is the name of the game for that hole. Easy par isn't too exciting on 15 on Sunday. Scoring average on Sunday was under par, however.

It is historically the 17 handicap hole of the course and while no eagles weren't in the cards, it still played as the 15th handicapped hole. I'm thinking 11 is the hole which has been tinkered with maybe a tad much. Keeping the 3 lone trees down the right and digging up dirt right of the green to create a more difficult approach I don't think was needed. It was clearly the 1 handicap this week and will overtake 10 as the historical 1 handicap by next year most likely. Always a hard hole.

[Matthew Rose]

IMO I think the weather had more to do with all the layups on par-fives - it was cold, it was windy and the ball wasn't flying. I feel like I saw more layups on 13 than I have seen in years.

I loved seeing guys go at them with 5 woods and 7 woods when they wouldn't lay up.

[Bruce Katona]

I'm thinking The MOTM (Men of The Masters) conspired with the weather gnomes to get the wind they wanted to dry the course out and get it to the exact standard they wanted.


We'll have to see if The MOTH share their elixir with the R&A to dial up the wind for The 150th Open Championship @ St. Andrews in a few months.


it would be great fun to see some breeze whistling through the Old Town to freshen up the air on the links..

[Jason Thurman]

I gotta think Scheffler was hitting 6 iron on that second shot at 15 that went just over the green yesterday, right? Not 9 iron...


Either way... if he had hit 7i/PW instead so that he finished a little under the hole and could give a real run instead of the defensive one he had to make, and then made the putt for eagle... then the hole wouldn't be too long anymore, right?


Do y'all see how the logic doesn't add up at all there?

[Ben Hollerbach]

I gotta think Scheffler was hitting 6 iron on that second shot at 15 that went just over the green yesterday, right? Not 9 iron...


Either way... if he had hit 7i/PW instead so that he finished a little under the hole and could give a real run instead of the defensive one he had to make, and then made the putt for eagle... then the hole wouldn't be too long anymore, right?


Do y'all see how the logic doesn't add up at all there?

Most likely 4 vs 9. Caddie signal mix-up, four fingers up is a 4, four fingers down is a 9.

[Edward Glidewell]

I gotta think Scheffler was hitting 6 iron on that second shot at 15 that went just over the green yesterday, right? Not 9 iron...


Either way... if he had hit 7i/PW instead so that he finished a little under the hole and could give a real run instead of the defensive one he had to make, and then made the putt for eagle... then the hole wouldn't be too long anymore, right?


Do y'all see how the logic doesn't add up at all there?

Didn't Cam Smith have like 45 feet for eagle on 15? He didn't make it, but it's not like no one even had a chance.

[Cal Carlisle]

This year’s tournament reminded me of the one in 2007 that Zach Johnson won. Not much scoring that year, but that’s because the weather was like it was on Saturday, only it was all four days. I don’t think Johnson had an eagle on any hole during the entire tournament.


Not really sure how many eagles were made on 15 that year, but it couldn’t have been many. I had to have my wife FedEx my winter coat and gloves.

[Ben Hollerbach]

This year’s tournament reminded me of the one in 2007 that Zach Johnson won. Not much scoring that year, but that’s because the weather was like it was on Saturday, only it was all four days. I don’t think Johnson had an eagle on any hole during the entire tournament.


Not really sure how many eagles were made on 15 that year, but it couldn’t have been many. I had to have my wife FedEx my winter coat and gloves.

2007:

• 22 Total Eagles
• 3 Eagles on 15
• 2 Eagles on 15 on Sunday

2022:

• 17 Total Eagles
• 0 Eagles on 15

Past Years Eagles on 15:

• 2021: 1
• 2020: 7
• 2019: 15
• 2018: 7
• 2017: 5
• 2016: 3

[Steve_Lovett]

There were added length and fewer eagles it also felt like I saw fewer balls in the water on 15 this year. Is that true?

[SL_Solow]

Jim,  There is one sure way to tell the impact of tree removal on resistance to scoring, if that is a significant concern..  Compare scores year against year for a reasonable period to remove outliers due to weather etc.  At our club which has had a moderate tree removal program the cry went up that the course had become too easy.  When we compared scores there was a moderate increase in difficulty.  As to the issue regarding the growth of unplayable rough in lieu of trees it is a complicated problem.  If the playable areas are reasonably wide, courses often plant fescue which many feel is a nice "look" but which also cuts down on maintenance costs once established.  Unfortunately, on rich soils fescue usually comes in much thicker than it does on links courses. So the balance between cost and playability becomes important.  Here the width of the fairways and traditional rough is a significant consideration.  Finally, don't underestimate the impact of trees on the ability to grow and maintain turf and the cost attendant thereto.  The impact can extend far beyond the canopy.