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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« on: November 23, 2003, 02:05:30 PM »
The Golf Club St. Andrews Beach has authorized us this week to begin construction on the first of two 18-hole courses.

Good timing, since I was headed back to Australia next week to visit Barnbougle and work with Brian Schneider on shaping the last four holes there.  Now, hopefully, we can roll right into St. Andrews Beach once Barnbougle is finished.

We are hoping to shape the Gunnamatta course all in December and January, plant it in February and March, and be open for play less than a year from today.  This is only possible because there is more golf laying on the ground on this site than anything I've seen this side of Sand Hills.  [I'm not saying it's as dramatic as Sand Hills ... I am saying we only plan to move about 10,000 cubic yards of earth to build it.]

I'll be gone from Monday night until December 13, so unless I borrow someone's computer down under, I'll be offline for a while.
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SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2003, 02:36:58 PM »
Tom -
Congratulations. Is the Gunnamatta the name of the course at St. Andrews Beach? 1.5 months to shape?  :o
« Last Edit: November 23, 2003, 02:37:21 PM by SPDB »
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Tim_Weiman

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Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2003, 02:43:44 PM »
Tom,

I'm happy to hear this is working out.
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Tim Weiman

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2003, 04:31:58 PM »
Tom,
A pleasant surprise - I didn't think that this project would go ahead!

Will you be using fescue in the fairways as at Barnbougle Dunes?
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Mark_Huxford

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2003, 09:22:07 PM »

Make every post a winner Tom. Congrats.

BTW, are they still opening Cape Kidnappers on Jan 1?

I see the web site went live this month. Brilliant.

Mark,

http://www.capekidnappers.com
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Norbert P

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Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2003, 09:54:43 PM »
Mark, thanks for the link.  There is some stark beauty to behold. It reminds me of some of the shots at the website of Old Head of Kinsale.

 Tom Doak,  Congrats on St. Andrews Bay.  If I may deviate, (as I am a deviant), is this "grow-in green" at Cape Kidnappers or will irrigation practices change somewhat after roots are established.  It looks world attention worthy, regardless, but would love to see some golds.  As a further aside; are those cliffs made up of sandstone?  They are magnificent features.  It looks a little bit like Fivemile Head with the rocks out in the surf but more dramatic with that nasty "Tooth" at lands end.
 
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"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2003, 10:09:13 PM »
Mark,

Yes, Cape Kidnappers opens January 1, although most of the holes are being played now by invited guests.  I'll be there with my family on December 22-23.

Slag,

That's definitely grow-in green, with some Photoshop thrown in.  [There would still be some dirt showing on holes 14 & 15 in the one aerial otherwise.]

There is a lot of fescue out in the roughs, and by the end of July it will be brown no matter what.  I hope they have the guts to let the fairways go off-color as well, but unfortunately I don't have the keys to the irrigation system.

One note:  you cannot see "the tooth" from the golf course; it's just a bit further down the coast and around a point.  But when it's built, the Lodge at Cape Kidnappers will face directly to the tooth.

The cliffs aren't sandstone; I can't honestly tell you what the geology is.
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2003, 11:11:30 PM »
Seems like a threadjack, but it's hard not to post these shots
of Cape Kidnappers:

5-7:


12-17:
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Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2003, 11:48:40 PM »
Scott/Tom Doak,

Re those Cape Kid pix: Holy Cow!!  :o

Best,
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Twitter: @Deneuchre

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2003, 11:55:57 PM »
what's the liability insurance premium as a percentage of greens fees?
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tonyt

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2003, 11:56:50 PM »
SPDB,

There is the Gunnamatta course and the West course (around 6750-6800ish yards each), and a longer composite course for the potential of future tournament play.
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LKoonce

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2003, 12:22:57 AM »
Does NOT look like encroachment from housing developments will be much of a problem at Cape Kidnappers!

I've met Mr. Robertson on a few occasions, and his passion when he talks about his projects in NZ is undeniable -- as others have said, he appears to take the long view, meaning he's looking to future generations, which is remarkable.  Looks like he and Mr. Doak have created one for the ages in Hawkes Bay!
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A_Clay_Man

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2003, 08:14:48 AM »
Thanx for the pics, Scott!

The first thing I noticed was the flat looking fairways in the second picture.

Tom D.- The hole on the right in the first Pic, Is that a short (downhill?) par four? I love those buried elephant humps.

I'm available on short notice for accurately testing how the hacks will receive your effort should you need me. ;D
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2003, 08:20:11 AM »
Since someone saw fit to copy those aerial photos above to a public forum, I will at least point out that they were taken by Jo Ann Dost, and should have her copyright.

It's pretty much impossible to capture the scale of this site in a photograph, but those above are the best attempt I have seen to date.

The first picture shows the par-4 fifth (bottom to top on the left side), the par-3 sixth (across the chasm from L to R), the par-4 seventh coming back down toward the bottom, the eighth tee (at bottom, playing down), the ninth approach and green (middle right), and the tenth hole along the right edge of the photo.

The second picture shows the par-4 12th (green cropped out, along the left margin), par-3 13th at the top left, short par-4 14th with its Road green (tee shot L to R across the chasm with the bridge), par-5 15th along the finger, and par-5 16th from tee behind 15th green back to right.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2003, 08:22:48 AM »
P.S.  Most of the large earthworks we had to do to build Cape Kidnappers are visible in one of these photos, if anyone wants to take a stab at identifying what we did.

Answers when I get back!
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T_MacWood

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2003, 08:36:25 AM »
The golf course and site looks surreal.

My guess would be the hole in the middle of the frame of the 2nd photo--with the platform like fairway. The first half of that fairway (especially on the left) looks like it may have been manufactured.
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A_Clay_Man

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2003, 08:48:35 AM »
If Tom MacW is wrong, I'll go with the top far right of the first photo. My reasoning is that the humps (large fingers) that are visible, are askew to the angle of other (thumps?) What are they called? We have a zillion of them around here all naturally formed from waters movement downhill.
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Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2003, 09:28:51 AM »
Holly Toledo...great pictures...and CONGRATS, Tom, on the St. Andrews Beach project.  I look forward to the continued updates and picture evidence...great stuff!
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2003, 10:06:55 AM »
Tom,

These pics weren't "stolen" from Jo Ann Dost, these are
posted straight from the very public Cape Kidnappers web site
that was linked to earlier in the thread.  We (many of us on
this site) post pics directly from public web sites all the time.

I am curious about the landing area on #7.  Seems like a
very "shallow" landing area, where drives will roll past the
flattish area down the hill to some downhill/sidehill lie to a
green perched on a hill.

For the rest of you, check out the link posted above to see more pics (none else are aerials).
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Mark_Huxford

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2003, 01:06:22 PM »
Gee that back-nine land looks mental from the air. I would still say there's more artificial stuff on the front-nine though.

I know 5 green was once a hill, and the gully is partly filled on the left in front. But that's great work there.

I'm stumped on 6 green. I can't tell if you took some of that down Tom.

I would say you guys probably had to partly fill the ravine in front of 8 and 9 green to make it more playable for golfers that don't have good carry. In the valley on 7 perhaps? No, I can't tell.

Unless the farmers did something to the 12th fairway I would say that is natural. Even though I knew it wasn't your style, that fairway was so level I remember asking you and Bruce if you were planning to jazz it up. You guys were just looking up at the greensite with the ocean behind it and knew no one was going to be paying any attention to the fairway. Actually level probably isn't the right word because it slopes downhill to the sea a lot doesn't it.

The road hole 14th looks menacing but I would say everything except the green is pretty natural. Man, it looks like a tough tee shot to get the orthodox angle and yet not go down into the ravine on the right. Looks like you might be able to play for a par by going around the back of the pot bunker.

15, someone is going to kill themselves on that hole, buried wires in the ground or no :P

16, yes, a lot of artificial grading on that fairway. I know, because I saw two over-grown Tonka toys doing it!

Very nice.



 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 01:21:02 PM by Mark_Huxford »
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2003, 01:27:39 PM »
Might as well link a few more pics from Cape Kidnappers' web site:

#4 sweeping fairway:


#5 from back tees  :o:


#5 from left edge of the earth, er, fairway:


some dude with a Texas Tech hat:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 01:37:34 PM by Scott_Burroughs »
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Brian Phillips

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Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2003, 02:54:07 PM »
Tom,

You have put on a bit of weight there dude....and grey hair....

I really like the strategy on the 14th hole.  Hit the right side of the fairway which is the thinnest (is it blind? the fairway?) fairway.  Get as close as you can to that bunker and you get a great entrance to a road hole style green.  Go left on the wide part and you have to come right over that pot bunker.

I think you have fill on that hole possibly for the green but the bushes look mature so i am not sure.

I like the 7th.  Is that green reachable?  I also think you have fill for that green and the tee complex around it?  How long is it to lay up of the elephant humps and get a flat lie?

Brian

joking about the weight but the grey hair.....
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 03:15:28 PM by Brian Phillips »
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

George Pazin

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Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2003, 04:32:42 PM »
Doesn't look vertigo-phobic player friendly to me - guess I'll have to walk & not play. :)

Anyone have any photos of St. Andrews Beach? Were any posted that I missed?
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

stovepipe

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2003, 07:29:29 PM »
Yeh, not bad, i guess i have to put my driver in the bag when i play this one. On looking at the pix it seems there are no Golfers to be seen.  ahhh! I know, the course is in Heaven, And no ones in heaven yet! Cant see GOD anywhere?
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stovepipe

Re:At Long Last, St. Andrews Beach
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2003, 07:32:33 PM »
If this Golf course is indeed in Heaven, then Im off to do myself in! see you on the first tee pal!
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