Bay of Dreams inquiry

[Kalen Braley]

I had been preparing for a trip to Cabo in January, which my wife was given for basically being very good at her job. But as of this morning it's been postponed until later in the year for Covid related concerns. I've been scouring Google Earth/Maps and this site for info on golf courses in the general area and had some questions about Bay of Dreams.

Yes I know its long since NLE, but still interesting to analyze after the fact.  After looking at Google Earth and pics from the Renaissance site, https://www.renaissancegolf.com/313/bahia-de-los-suenos-gallery, I managed to piece together the routing, as a few holes had eroded quite a bit.  Looks like there were a few stunners to say the least.

My first question is directed at Tom, was there any thought in doing something a bit like 17 at CDS in between the 14th and 15th?  Google Earth indicates it could have possibly tipped out near 190 as well as provide a 100 yard option from the front?

The project was fairly remote in terms of proximity to Cabo and La Paz and was to rely on desalination for water.  Is it common for other courses in the Baja region to rely on same methods for watering?

Does anyone have any additional photos or comments they can post up?  From reading a few old threads looks like a few of you got some preview rounds in before it closed.

Thank you in advance!

P.S.  On a related note, I've read a lot of mixed comments on other sites for renting a car in Cabo in terms of personal safety and or potential sketchy situations?  Any insights there?

Edit:  Just looked at Bing Maps and has some very old Aerial shots which still shows the greens alive as well as a few fairways...

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d9eda1a3-fbe4-4320-b942-f4f377be381e&cp=23.988283~-109.83871&lvl=16&style=h&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

[Anthony Gray]

 I called them I think in 09 or 2010 (could be wrong) and they were evasive. The person I talked to mentioned viewing whales everyday and how peaceful it was.  I asked about playing the course and he was downright creepy. Seemed like he was selling time shares. So I never perused playing there. Really enjoyed Diamanté. I had Diamanté in my top 10 favorite courses. It was a Fun 9.5.


 Anthony

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:


The course was in play for a few months, but I never got down there in that period, unfortunately.


I do have some good photos of it via Larry Lambrecht.  I don't have an account through which to post them, but if someone else does, I might be able to send over a few.


I did look at building a par-3 hole around the bay on the south end of the course, but one of the clients had a home near the green site, and didn't want that to happen.  Had we done so, it would have prevented the very short par-4 14th hole from getting right to the bay, and that was one of the best holes on the course.  The other holes I thought were really good were the par-5 9th, the par-4 11th and 12th, and the 18th.


It was a weird job, though.  The project changed hands a couple of times during the planning and construction process . . . the guys who got me interested originally were going to build a first-of-its-kind boutique hotel a bit to the south of the course, but then they backed away right after I signed the contract.  It wasn't as much work as our project in China, but it was a close second for the amount of time and talent wasted.


Also -- no, I wouldn't rent a car in Cabo.  I'm sure you'd be fine if you just stuck to the main drag, but if you do that, you can take taxis wherever you need.

[Brad Tufts]

My buddy and I rented a car for the Tequila Cup (a GCA trip that needs to be revived!!), and I would say don't rent a car.


I remember nothing more driving-noteworthy than a pothole or two during our trip, and the Hertz folks at the airport attacked the underside of the car with mirrors upon its return looking for damage.  Despite finding nothing while I watched, we got a bill for $300 worth in damage about a month later.  We challenged it through Amex...you'd think Hertz and Amex would sort out this BS...but we ultimately had to pay.


I wouldn't trust it.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

we go there quite alot and have never found renting a car a problem.
antonio@amrentacar.com......very reliable and expect $90 a day full coverage.
Contact him ahead of time to avoid the usual bullshit that goes along with dealing with rental car kiosks.


as far as desalinated water goes, that is apparently one of the advantages of using passpallum grasses.
Diamante uses desalinated water from its own plant, but from what I understand you cannot use it all the time ?


I am sure there are some AGGRO people on her who can give you more skinny on that.


Another option on the rental car is to do it through the concierge wherever you are staying, this way you also avoid using any airport based kiosks which are a nightmare

[Kalen Braley]

Thanks all for the feedback so far,

Tom thanks for the insights on the project, changing owners like that would be unnerving at best, but looks like you got some good stuff in the ground.  I'm guessing from a permitting perspective, its far easier to build where and what you want in Mexico? You can forward those pictures along to me to post up, my email address is under my name to the left if you click on it.

P.S. Brad your story is similar to what I've read in many other cases, tourists getting "touched" on their way to catching their flight.  Sounds like its best to just organize transport thru the resort we'll be staying at.

[Kalen Braley]

Some additional pics, compliments of Tom!

3


9


11


12


14


14 approach


16


18

[Daryl David]

I played few rounds back around the time Larry was there photographing. I really liked it. Very high on the fun factor. I would have made a return trip in a heartbeat for the golf. Not so much for the location. Potential members and or house owners was a very thin market. You left with the feeling back then that it wouldn’t end well.

[Carl Rogers]

Have a little history at the Bay of Dreams.  I won the 2005 edition of the Golf Magazine Armchair Architect judged by Tom.  The prize was to hang out with Tom and the 2 Brian's at the BoD for 3 days as they were working on the course.  I mostly saw the front nine.


But Tom told me later that most of what I saw had to get radically re-worked.


The highlight of my modest golfing life.

[Ronald Montesano]

Kalen, What is CDS?

[Joe Perches]

Kalen, What is CDS?

I presume it's Cabo Del Sol
Here's a flyover: https://youtu.be/3UENYGcju0Y?t=75
(My suggestion: turn off the sound)

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, What is CDS?

Cabo Del Sol - Jack's course that as best as I can tell started the Cabo golf craze...

P.S. I'm sure people have varying opinions, but as far as I can tell from the old threads I've recently read its:

1)  Diamante
2)  CDS

Then everything else in varying order including courses like Quivira, 2nd course at Diamante,  Chileno Bay, El Dorado, etc...might be interesting to see a new list of everyone's top 5 or 10.

[Steve Salmen]

It may take a little effort to access, but I liked the new Rancho San Lucas course by Greg Norman.  It's just north of Diamante.


A few years ago I rented a car for a week.  The car rental was about $20 for the week and the insurance was $220 for the week!! I did not have a bad experience with the car rental.

[Mike Nuzzo]

looks very nice
A blend of Apache Stronghold and Tumble Creek on the sea
Peace

[Anthony Gray]

Kalen, What is CDS?

Cabo Del Sol - Jack's course that as best as I can tell started the Cabo golf craze...

P.S. I'm sure people have varying opinions, but as far as I can tell from the old threads I've recently read its:

1)  Diamante
2)  CDS

Then everything else in varying order including courses like Quivira, 2nd course at Diamante,  Chileno Bay, El Dorado, etc...might be interesting to see a new list of everyone's top 5 or 10.

 Out of 10 plays I would go 9 Diamanté and 1 Cabo del Sol. There have been changes to both since I was there. But Diamanté had a lot of Variety. It had no houses or real estate. Strangely it had no hot water yet in the showers. Amazing views.

[ward peyronnin]

Diamante's other attractions:
Great on course food at several comfort stations
An active white sand dune
A practice field with four station bays cut out of  a rock wall featuring piped in music and breakfast sandwiches up top and three separate buckets of Titliest, TaylorMade, and Calloway balls hand picked I must guess

Diamante water dipped from a cabana at the 17th tee
and the Incomparable Alma: a tall willowy extremely attractive and graceful Mexican lady in a white sheathe linen dress who principally leaned on the corner of the bar and beamed her lovely smile at diners and drinkers. She has no doubt moved on to a more secure position since I was there.

Also don't miss the worlds smallest bar on the main strip.

and the incomparable Alma

[Greg Hohman]

Very nice pics and the words “Tequila Cup” got my attention, spurring a read of a 2012 thread about the TC. It looked as if Greg T. covered all bases. Did I miss a wrap up? Was B of D open and played by the intrepid who can chew up and spit out a five-hour round trip? Any chance of a reiteration of the TC?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

After ten years of experience in traveling to Cabo, this would be my course ratings.
1.Diamante Dunes...even after alot of housing and hotel construction
2.Chileno Bay
3.Diamante El Card...I like it more everytime I play it
4.Twin Dolphin..the best comfort stations on earth
5.Rancho San Lucas...also great comfort stations
6.Quiviera...spectacular views and comfort stations less good golf


Diamante Dunes is world class, although not as much so after spoiling the views with construction.
It still has six world class holes and with some imagination could get at least another 1
By my evaluation that alone makes it world class worthy

[Tom_Doak]

After ten years of experience in traveling to Cabo, this would be my course ratings.
1.Diamante Dunes...even after alot of housing and hotel construction
2.Chileno Bay
3.Diamante El Card...I like it more everytime I play it
4.Twin Dolphin..the best comfort stations on earth
5.Rancho San Lucas...also great comfort stations
6.Quiviera...spectacular views and comfort stations less good golf

I don't know whether to laugh or cry with all your talk about comfort stations.  I thought you were a golfer, man.  Were you suffering from Montezuma's revenge?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

After ten years of experience in traveling to Cabo, this would be my course ratings.
1.Diamante Dunes...even after alot of housing and hotel construction
2.Chileno Bay
3.Diamante El Card...I like it more everytime I play it
4.Twin Dolphin..the best comfort stations on earth
5.Rancho San Lucas...also great comfort stations
6.Quiviera...spectacular views and comfort stations less good golf

I don't know whether to laugh or cry with all your talk about comfort stations.  I thought you were a golfer, man.  Were you suffering from Montezuma's revenge?

that funny mate....
I only was making reference to them as they mentioned in a previous message.
I personally couldnt give a rats you know what !!, they interfere with the flow of the golf.
But they appear to be a necessity for resort golf nowadays, and my opinion was merely as a non drinker's contribution.


Judging the merits of the respective courses was in NO WAY influenced by the quality of comfort stations.


Perhaps a Doak rating for comfort stations in the new Confidential Guide