President's Cup - Links Course at Fancourt

[Michael Moore]

They should have called that the Precedents Cup.

[Jim_Michaels]

I don't know which thread to post these thoughts on, as some are non-architectural:

1) They should have started earlier if the darned thing was going to be on tape delay.

2) Tape delay robs sporting events of their excitment, as we knew around 3:30 or 4:00 that there was too much time left before 6:00 for the tournament to end in regulation.

3) This nonsense about "one guy shouldn't decide the cup for 12"? Every event comes down to one guy when its close. What an absurd notion.

4) Why did they not plan for every contingency?

5) This is why the Prez cup is minor league stuff compared to Ryder.

6) Why didn't they come back tomorrow and play it out? That would have shown us all that money is not what drives the game, at least temporarily. There is no tour event next week, where were they all going in such a hurry?

7) The golf course was pretty awful. Miller used the expression "over-designed" a few times. There is a thin line between good and bad manufacturing on a golf course, and Player appeared to me to have crossed that line more often than not.

Kudos to the players who really stood up under pressure, to my mind dimarco and woods.

[CHrisB]

Jim,
I'm with you on 4) and  , but disagree with everything else! But that's what finishes like this do: they polarize everyone's reactions.

Congrats to Tiger & Ernie (great putts!), and also to Nicklaus & Player--this may be the last time for both of them to be on golf's big stage.

Not all events can be catered to America's every little whim; this was definitely South Africa's event, as it should have been.

By the way, they should have started earlier, but not because the TV coverage in the U.S. was tape-delayed. It would have been tape-delayed no matter when the golf started; South Africa is 7 hours ahead of the Eastern US Time Zone.

[Chris Kane]

Jim Michaels,
Why should the scheduling of overseas sporting events be influenced by American television?  If the American networks wanted some excitement, they would have shown it live, just like most other countries in the world do.

I watch all four majors each year live, and they are shown live between 4-8am, with the exception of the British Open, which is usually finishes around 4am.

[paul cowley]

..i loved the ending, great sportsmanship and thinking under fire.

a two man playoff in a team event was a lame idea to begin with , akin to opposing kickers in football attempting increasingly longer field goals to decide tied games....if anything it should have been a twelve match sudden death.

[buffett_guy]

Great event and great finish. I will be looking forward to the Pres Cup in 05 at RTJ which is a short drive for me. It is a gentleman's game and a team event. A tie is very natural and there is no need for a egotistical "somebody HAS to win" attitude. A very gracious decision all the way around imho. Someboday HAS to win the US Open, but in a team event like this a tie is acceptable to me.

Too bad this type of resolution isn't more common in life and business. I like the attitude expressed by the captains. Huge desire to win, but never willing to compromise their integrity, their honor, their sportsmanship, or their respect for the opponent.

As for the course, it created a lot of drama, but looked a little unnatural in spots. Kinda reminded me of a local course named Raspberry Falls that was designed by Gary Player. It's a good solid layout but there are some features that stand out like a sore thumb. Notably, there are some absolutely cavernous bunkers that stick out in the otherwise moderately rolling Virginia countryside.

Good show!

[RJ_Daley]

I was throroughly entertained by today's matches.  I don't think the course is overdesigned for the upper eschlon of players.  It was an exciting golf course, requiring much thought (not Shivas's complaint that it takes a nanosecond to figure out where and how you want to hit your shot).  I wouldn't kid myself into thinking I'd get much out of playing such a golf course, other than a severe beating.  But, this is where pro golf is going to have to go if it is going to avoid being a mindless birdie fest.  I congratulate Player and his design team for building something that provided everything a course should demand from the best.  I would like to know who are the principle designer/-architects and constructors of that golf course.

Finally, I noted old man Kohler was present at Fancourt and I just bet he is second guessing if he has an equally challenging course in Whistling Straits.

PS:  I liked Jack's leadership and I agree with the decision under the all things considered category.  But, I wonder if Tiger won't perhaps stay overnight at Ernie's tonight, and they go out for a quick 15 holes tomorrow at dawn alone just to see what...

PPS: I heard that President Bush Sr., when he was at Yale was known as a great compromiser to the extent his nickname was "take half".  I wonder if Jack knew that...

[buffett_guy]

There was a twinkle of, "can we just go home already?" in the eyes of the Americans as the negotiations proceeded.

[blasbe1]

Today was bad for the game.

I think it was a pale attempt at sportsmanship that detracted from an otherwise great day of golf.  

Jack clearly thought the US would keep the cup, and said so, while making his gesture that the day should end in a draw . . .  Player turned white as a ghost . . . and Els had the best reaction . . . "let's play then!"

It was CYA time after the group huddle and I think the US team looked like a group of guys who just wanted to fly home.  

The event was supposed to be tied and shouldn't have bee tied.  I think most will look back at today and say that those in charge failed to plan and then failed to use good judgement when it counted.  Jack and Player just took the game into their own hands which I'm sure neither would have done if they had some time to reflect on it.    

[blasbe1]

Correction:  "The event was NOT supposed to be tied and shouldn't have beeN tied."

   

[Martin Del Vecchio]

They should have started earlier, they should have been willing to come back the next day, etc.

The two things that I take away from watching the entire weekend via TiVo:

1)  Tiger and Ernie both made incredible putts on the last hole they played; holy cow!

2)  There is much more golf talent on the International team than there is on the European team in the Ryder Cup.  They ought to find a way to create a Ryder Cup event that includes all three teams somehow.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

All in all, Lee Elder was probably happy he stayed home.    

[A_Clay_Man]

I thought the only place the logic breaks down is that bit about one man deciding for the whole team. Hey, thats what was set-up and happening. So why not have a new envelope for the next day? Figure out who could change their travel plans (that seemed to be the "real" issue) and paly an 18 hole playoff or something to determine a winner. Plus, the argument that the players couldn't read the grain because of the darkness was B.S. as evidenced by the two preceeding putts. Also, it was the same level of darkenss for both players so how could it not be fair? Which is more in keeping with the spirit and the reality that this game offers.

This is not Japanese baseball.

[Jim_Michaels]

Chris Kane,

If they scheduled it to end at 4 instead of 6 locally, would that have affected the audience much in that time zone? But it would have guaranteed that they would not have had the problem they had.  The event is owned by the USPGA tour and almost of the players in the event play on the US tour and I would wager that most of the dollars behind the event come from the US audience.  Clearly, I would not suggest that a truly local event be scheduled to the whim of US viewers.

[Evan Fleisher]

Definitely a "kiss your sister" kind of ending...and the resulting "tie" seems all fine and dandy, but I'm, sure we are all wishing for an ending with a bit more "finality".

There was some serious backpeddling going on there, by both sides, in order to come up with an equitable solution to the problem, as the U.S. team was very much in favor of getting the hell out of dodge it seemed...Ernie and several other Internationals were ready to get it going again, the U.S. did not seem as enthusiastic.

I thought the course itself was set-up very weel for a match-play type format event, and it was nice to see the guys have to actually THINK about the shots they were about to play, especially around the greens...a nice change from the "point and shoot" golf we have become so acustomed to here in the states.

BTW...there is an interesting article in the most recent issue of Links Magazine which addresses the issue of providing a "round robin" format to the match-play events that could/would include the three teams (i.e., U.S., Europe, Internationals) on a rotating schedule and allow the U.S. players a bit of a "break" from having to play in these events every single year...might bring back some interest and continued rivalry...check out the article!

[Tim Taylor]

I saw an artice recently, maybe in Golf Magazine, that put forth a similar theory. Simpy stated, there would be a "Prime Minister's Cup" between Europe and the Internationals added to the regular rotation of the Ryder Cup and the President's Cup. This has the additional advantage of not having the Americans play in one of these events every year.

I'm frantically searching for the article now...

TimT

They should have started earlier, they should have been willing to come back the next day, etc.

The two things that I take away from watching the entire weekend via TiVo:

1)  Tiger and Ernie both made incredible putts on the last hole they played; holy cow!

2)  There is much more golf talent on the International team than there is on the European team in the Ryder Cup.  They ought to find a way to create a Ryder Cup event that includes all three teams somehow.