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Ira Fishman

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2021, 10:07:26 AM »
Besides ratings being inherently subjective, timing affects the subjectivity. I played Ballyneal only a few months before playing FH and Somerset Hills. Because I have played fewer great courses than many of you, I have only two 10s (CPC and PH2). Maybe it is a cop out, but because all three could be 10s, I chose not to elevate one over the other although I have Somerset Hills by a nose. The other option would have been to more than double my 10s.


I do think that Ballyneal is “underranked” though in the ratings. But that probably just proves the point that fine distinctions among the best of the best do not make sense.


Ira

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2021, 12:05:07 PM »
I don’t believe that a course which can not be played by prideful irregular shaped boomers is a 10.

corey miller

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #127 on: December 12, 2021, 09:32:22 PM »



As I texted Mike Cirba, I also have Ballyneal in the "10" camp where only one other modern course I have seen resides.  And for me, the other moderns are not even close.


I am not qualified to be a rater and being the amateur critic that I am, I did wonder how my views may/could have been clouded by my host always directing me to the "preferred" tee which invariably was the most architecturally interesting.


Truth be told, were I just looking at course yardage and my game and even injecting a one time play and there is no way I would ever even sniff the back tee on #1 which really makes that hole a standout. 


So with that caveat, it remains a "clear 10"


 

Dan Kelly

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2021, 03:06:42 PM »

There is certainly reluctance on my part to give more than one or maybe two 10's to my own designs, because people already say I rate my courses higher than I should [even though that's not true].


LOL.


Reninds me of Adrian Monk, who so often said: “I could be wrong … but I’m not.”
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

ward peyronnin

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #129 on: December 13, 2021, 05:04:37 PM »
I am just gonna contribute one review of a place i haven't seen mentioned and that is of Keswick Hall Full Cry- a solid 7.
This is my favorite Pete Dye course. The pacing, views and sightlines, variety, softened Dye touches, and impeccable conditioning make this an absolute pleasure to play AND the newly redone accommodations and services are themselves five star or ten or whatever scale you want to rate them as the 99 percentile. The supt has been there since he left The Palmer Group to stay after that grow-in 30 yrs ago and he knows his patch of dirt. A very cool feature are the slopes retained by revetment laid from recycled concrete slabs from demolition of the old cart paths stained red to match up with the clay soil. I know it is not the most accessibly priced venue but there is no denying it is a real treat
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #130 on: December 14, 2021, 12:29:53 AM »
Two more the last two days.


Tradition (La Quinta, CA): 7. I can come up with a couple of relevant nitpicks, most notably that there are four fairly similar par 3's between 180 and 205. But there are a lot of really good holes (1, 7, 10, 12, 13, 16, 17) and no duds. And it's gorgeous.


Stone Eagle: 8. This was at the top of my want-to-play list for a long time and it didn't disappoint. It's off the charts visually, the greens are awesome, and there are a ton of interesting holes. I thought that three of the downhill par 4's could have been more differentiated (9, 11, and 16 are 418, 411, and 401 playing in the same direction). Other than those 3, the variety was exceptional, and everything about the experience was really pretty great.

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #131 on: December 14, 2021, 04:31:09 AM »
From Clyde’s post it looks like a flight to Shetland might somewhat unexpectedly be in order. :)
atb


It's kind of a bummer that I keep finding all these cool places on Google Earth but he's the one who has the time to go play them!


WOW! Whalsay looks incredible. Sort of a mix between Old Head, Nefyn and Pebble Beach. That takes some dedicated journeying to play, so all credit to Clyde for trekking up there.


Inspired by this peach of a find I had a look on YouTube to see what there was for it. Not much, apart from a minute-long drone flight, but there is a fascinating, full 18-hole drone tour of Shetland Golf Club. The 5th and 6th holes are outstanding par 4's and the course, as a whole, reminded me of the likes of Fort William or Halifax. I attach the link below.


There's only been 341 views in 2 years, so it'll be interesting to see if the GCA crowd can nudge that number up towards 500 or more.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xTgkn_FopA


Whalsay and Shetland. Now that would be a BUDA for the purists.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Thomas Dai

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #132 on: December 14, 2021, 05:18:25 AM »
Inspired by this peach of a find I had a look on YouTube to see what there was for it. Not much, apart from a minute-long drone flight, but there is a fascinating, full 18-hole drone tour of Shetland Golf Club. The 5th and 6th holes are outstanding par 4's and the course, as a whole, reminded me of the likes of Fort William or Halifax. I attach the link below.
There's only been 341 views in 2 years, so it'll be interesting to see if the GCA crowd can nudge that number up towards 500 or more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xTgkn_FopA
Whalsay and Shetland. Now that would be a BUDA for the purists.
I visited Shetland about the time the course opened. Course is just north of Lerwick. Stopped for a brief look. Amazing location. Seemed like the sort of course where the ball might not roll that much. Not many trees though so must be good!
You get a fine view of it's location and surroundings on Instant Streetcam - see -https://www.instantstreetview.com/@60.165396,-1.227731,95.68h,-4.53p,1z,ZJmVDpc6S60GH5svQbUBDw
atb

Michael Felton

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #133 on: December 14, 2021, 12:17:03 PM »
I played four new courses this year. In order that I saw them:


Indian Hills CC in Northport, NY - 5 - I thoroughly enjoyed this course. It has a few interesting holes on it, a par 4 with a big Biarritz green and a couple of great holes over the water - one of which with a blind second shot up a steep wall with lost ball gunch on it (also the scene of my absolute debacle)


Garden City Country Club, NY - 5 too - I think the course as a whole is better than Indian Hills, but not sure it has enough to bump it up to a 6. It's a lot of fun though.


The Bridge, NY - 7 - I was not sure what to expect coming here from reading a thread on this site comparing it with Friar's Head. The course has plentiful width, lots of movement and some really fun challenging holes on it. If the trouble that results from missing the fairways was a little less penal (think 90% lost ball if you're a yard off and 100% lost ball if you're more than 5 yards off) then I'd think it was even better. I got beaten up, bloodied and bruised by it over three rounds in two days and loved it.


Friar's Head, NY - 8 - I have been somewhat reticent to talk about this one on here. It's really good and obviously so and it has some wonderful holes on it (9 jumps out at me, along with 14, 15 and 17 as being great holes) and there's really nothing that's not right about it. It's definitely better than the Bridge, but I just couldn't shake the feeling that it wasn't as much better as I was expecting it to be. Having said that, if I retired and had the means to join it and live next door, I'd happily play it every day the rest of my life. Also a tip of the cap to the practice facility, which is perhaps the best one I've ever seen. I also can't shake the feeling that I'm being a little harsh on it because I played it shortly after having played a couple of other courses that I just think are better (NGLA -10 and RSG -9)

John Foley

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #134 on: December 14, 2021, 01:55:04 PM »



Indian Hills CC in Northport, NY - 5 - I thoroughly enjoyed this course. It has a few interesting holes on it, a par 4 with a big Biarritz green and a couple of great holes over the water - one of which with a blind second shot up a steep wall with lost ball gunch on it (also the scene of my absolute debacle)



Home of one of the most underrated logo's in golf!!
Integrity in the moment of choice

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #135 on: December 14, 2021, 02:29:49 PM »
Sterling Grove in Surprise, AZ


A Nicklaus Design( not JN) by Chris Cochran in  a Toll Bros residential community.


The course is relatively flat from tee to green. It’s a traditional design with wide fairways. I thought that the fairway bunkers were reasonable for mid handicappers. There’s a good deal of wind so the width was welcome.  Some of the fairways are 60-70 yards across. It is walkable and they have pushcarts. Some of the green to tee distances get a bit long though. It is a real estate course after all.[/size]The greens, on the other hand, have a LOT of contour. The pins were at the edges of the greens all day so I’ll reserve judgment until I play it again. It’s a 2nd shot course where you need to be in the right quadrant to have a chance.


The practice area is very strong with  a range, short game area and putting course.  All in all, it’s a pleasant course if you don’t get a windy day


My rating:  4 .
[/color]
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
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Bob Montle

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #136 on: December 16, 2021, 09:22:46 PM »
Mallard Head CCNorth Carolinaa 3Big disappointment
"If you're the swearing type, golf will give you plenty to swear about.  If you're the type to get down on yourself, you'll have ample opportunities to get depressed.  If you like to stop and smell the roses, here's your chance.  Golf never judges; it just brings out who you are."

MCirba

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #137 on: December 19, 2021, 02:28:43 PM »
Pelican Beach Golf Club – Hyannis, NE – 5 – Nothing could quite compare this year to driving up to this remote and oddly named nine-hole course first thing in the morning to a scene from “Field of Dreams” as a rancher on a tractor came up to my sole car in the parking lot and inquired, “Are you looking to play golf?” and once assured my purpose was noble opened up the shack-like club house (there’s an honor box) and started to describe the routing and then just said, “well, I reckon you’ll figure it out” and drove away.   The course itself is suitably less than pristine conditioned with one cool hole after another based on traditional concepts, rugged terrain, and long views to love.    The card and pencil set will likely bemoan the number of short par fours but that’s probably because they bogeyed them.   I don’t know what score to give a course you should play if you’re within 150 miles but don’t skip this one.
 
Prairie Club (Pines) – Valentine, NE – 6.5 -  The Prairie Club's Pines course is a bit of a sleeper that sits in the shadow of it's bigger and bolder neighbor, the Dunes course.   With a routing that weaves in and out of the pine-covered cliffs that run along the Snake River Canyon, my understanding is that some regulatory issues may have forced the routing a bit more inland than what was originally intended.   That being said, the canyon comes into play from a golf perspective even if the views are somewhat muted.  There is no question that it's the more varied of the two courses, with some holes open to the broad plains, extensive views, and windswept terrain that the Dunes course magnificently occupies, with other holes narrowing among trees or skirting native areas.   The course also ratchets up the challenge with three very difficult finishing holes that run along the canyon to the left and generally all into the prevailing wind.   Sixteen is a brute of a par four requiring two accurate and lengthy shots but Seventeen is a deceiver of a par three with a green tucked almost in a dogleg left fashion tight to trouble left.   The golfer who bails to the right is basically screwed however, leaving possibly the most dangerous, diabolical recovery on the entire course; blind over a bunker from a tight lie with death beyond.   The finale is grand, yet very awkward for the first time player and judging carry distance and angles is daunting.   I suspect it's a course that grows on you with repeat plays (I played it three times) and I also suspect it's undervalued and under-rated by one time players.  I didn’t love it but came to respect it.
 
Prairie Club (Dunes) – Valentine, NE – 8 – Prairie Club's Dunes Course might have the best front nine of any new course I played this year and the back is no slouch if not quite as boldly inventive.   From the time one faces the uphill, largely blind approach shot on #1 it's clear this will not be a conventional challenge.   From there the long second with OB tight on the right to a green tucked narrowly between dunes to the long uphill par five third, to the 4th which gets creative points with a narrow, turning green 70 yards long (almost half the size of the entire 145-yard hole), to the short par four minefield 5th with a green half that size, and so on, it's a journey of discovery and fascination.  Perhaps the best hole is the 8th, an uphill par four where the drive needs to be both long and accurately placed for a view of the wonderful green between foreshortened dunes where the approach gets more exacting the bolder the approach shot.  With a routing that is out and back, the returning nine occupies land that is perhaps less interesting overall but is still well utilized.   The 13th, with a wide and spacious fairway and bunkers littered to and fro is perhaps the best of the lot, with the appropriate placement of the drive changing with hole location and confidence in one's game at the moment.
 
Prairie Club (Horse) – Valentine, NE – 5 – Apparently there is a standard routing to play but with the sun setting and having the place to ourselves we just decided that the winner of each hole would pick the next green target, original Sheep Ranch style.   Nice walk with a cold one and a few clubs, with a high emphasis on just pure fun and whimsy, benefited by some severe greens you'd likely never build on a "standard" course.
 
CapRock Ranch – Valentine, NE – 8.5 – Blessed with a dramatic site along the edge of the cliffs of the Snake River Canyon, I spent more time noodling over my rating of this course than anywhere else I played this year because…well, it is different in a way I suspect will wear well over time due to architectural restraint.   If routing is destiny, then the die was cast with the unfortunate placement of the clubhouse at the highest and most prominent point overlooking the canyon.    As such, the opportunity was lost for the creation of what would have been one of the most dramatic finishing holes on the planet.   That placement decision not only truncated the closer to a long, all-carry par three finale, but I suspect it impacted (i.e. shortened) the 17th, as well, and the round finishes with 2 of the last three holes being par threes.   The holes away from the cliffs occupy some of the gentlest terrain in the Sand Hills region and apparently it was determined to just blend in a low-key, subtle architectural approach perhaps to counter-balance the dramatics along the cliffs.   Many of the greens are almost natural extensions of the fairways and encourage the run-up approach.   However, the par threes are all virtually all or nothing propositions, with the best being the short 9th, which approximates the challenge of a hole like Shinnecock's 11th with masterful panache.   But, oh what could have been!
 
Frederick Peak – Valentine, NE – 4.5 – Built by Tom Lehman and Chris Brands as a municipal course to complement their work at the Prairie Club, there’s a lot to like on this 10-hole course and the par three 5th and par five 6th are legitimately great holes that cascade steeply downhill.   However, what goes down must come back up and walking here on a hot day is an exercise in masochism.   
 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 07:24:05 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Adam_Messix

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #138 on: December 19, 2021, 03:37:26 PM »
Mike--


I chuckled when I saw your name on the pad in the Honor Box at Pelican Beach.  It is one of those classic midwesern "country" courses like Augusta Pines and Mullen Golf Course where conditions are scurffy but there is charm a plenty.  Pelican Beach is the cream of the group though.  Even though the greens are generally small, the surface on 6 is an eye opener.  Three tiers from right to left and very severe. I also liked seven in how a thoughtful slider can find it's way onto the green.  Hopefully you played off the barely maintained back tee on 9.  The hole is stunning from up there. 


I agree with Mike, if you're into conditioning and par just keep driving when you reach Hyannis.  If you enjoy charm, stop by Pelican Beach for a very enjoyable nine holes. 

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #139 on: December 19, 2021, 06:59:03 PM »
Ironwood Golf Course – Cowlesville, NY – 4 – A low-budget family oriented course south of Buffalo, this Scott Witter design offers enough architectural interest and greens contouring to surprise and interest throughout.   The overly ambitious par fives on the back nine are the only obvious flaws and after playing them once you quickly realize that, no…those other seeming strategic options are only mirages.
 
Grover Cleveland Golf Course – Buffalo, NY – 3.5 – Oh, to be able to restore these greens and surrounds to something approximating their ambitious fill pads!   A previous Country Club of Buffalo site, this course hosted the 1912 U. S. Open and the original steeplechase-like berms and subsequent architectural touches by Walter Travis and later Donald Ross is a golf architectural nerd’s delight.   The course suffers from financial neglect, portions of the course were lost when a neighboring VA Hospital was built and the flat site doesn’t drain well, but we spent a lot of time looking at cool stuff at every turn.   Of particular note is the par three 13th, which in its glory days likely had a lot of the 12th at Garden City going on.
 
Pine Acres Country Club – Bradford, PA – 3 – It was sad to see the state of disrepair at this obviously financially troubled club and the current lack of proper conditioning makes it difficult to even rate it that high.   The mountain-top architecture by James Gilmore Harrison (who worked for Donald Ross) deserves better but in a declining industrial town with a better golf course down in the valley simple survival is going to be a challenge.
 
Pennhills Club – Bradford, PA – 5 – Walter Travis routed 18 holes here but only 9 were originally built.   Years later Dick Wilson followed the Travis routing for the remainder but not his bunkering or greens, creating something of a schizophrenic affair.   Slowly, the club is using the original Travis drawings to consolidate styles and the three greens rebuilt by Ian Andrew to the Travis rollicking style are welcomed.   Probably a few too many awkward doglegs and short par fours to be a hidden gem but don’t turn down an invite if you’re in the area.
 
Bidermann Golf Club – Wilmington, DE – 6 – After one of the strangest, cramped opening holes I’ve seen, Bidermann gets really good, really fast.   The remainder of the brawny layout is sprawled out over gorgeous open countryside and although you may get tired of firing approaches at hilltop greens, the sense of place is high with this one.   It’s not a course you’ll fall in love with but you won’t find many faults and there’s lots to admire.    The paucity of rounds also means conditioning that is top-notch.
 
Knollwood Country Club – Elmsford, NY – 5.5 – One of the first eighteen hole courses built in the US, Knollwood has seen its share of architects over the years trying to best navigate the narrow, hilly property.   In recent times the club has settled on retaining/restoring the Seth Raynor style, and that consistency benefits the course enormously.   The par threes are generally the standout holes here, particularly the reverse redan 8th and Eden 16th (as well as the cutesy 19th hole) but the world class finish at 18 is what likely remains in the memory banks for most.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 07:27:00 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #140 on: December 19, 2021, 07:03:17 PM »
Mike--


I chuckled when I saw your name on the pad in the Honor Box at Pelican Beach.  It is one of those classic midwesern "country" courses like Augusta Pines and Mullen Golf Course where conditions are scurffy but there is charm a plenty.  Pelican Beach is the cream of the group though.  Even though the greens are generally small, the surface on 6 is an eye opener.  Three tiers from right to left and very severe. I also liked seven in how a thoughtful slider can find it's way onto the green.  Hopefully you played off the barely maintained back tee on 9.  The hole is stunning from up there. 


I agree with Mike, if you're into conditioning and par just keep driving when you reach Hyannis.  If you enjoy charm, stop by Pelican Beach for a very enjoyable nine holes.

Adam,

I know when you said you saw my name signed next to the Honor Box somewhere that it was likely either Pelican or the cool nine hole course in Holyoke, CO.   


I had a smile on my face the entire morning.   :)



« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #141 on: December 20, 2021, 01:09:06 PM »
I should have mentioned that the Dunes course at Prairie Club rates a full point higher for being reasonably walkable over the Pines course which is walkable but not easily so. 


In fact, that's a clear bias of mine so folks considering my scores for places like Ballyneal, CapRock, Prairie Club Dunes, and others should be aware that I can't think of a riding only course I've ever played that doesn't feel somewhat disjointed and therefore lesser in quality.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #142 on: December 29, 2021, 08:46:59 AM »
It appears there is time for one more new course (#42) before 2021 is behind us.   This Friday a group of us are going to venture to D.C. to play Langston Golf Course, which is looking to be part of the coming Municipal Golf Renaissance.   As a public course golfer my entire life I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to seeing this historic place.   Here's a piece about Langston written recently by Michael Bamberger;

https://golf.com/travel/langston-golf-course-design-project-national-links-trust/
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 09:46:30 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jason Topp

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #143 on: December 29, 2021, 09:49:48 AM »
I should have mentioned that the Dunes course at Prairie Club rates a full point higher for being reasonably walkable over the Pines course which is walkable but not easily so. 



I had time to play one round and did not play the Dunes in part because I thought it looked like an unnecessarily long walk from the aerials.  I do not recall the Pines being a particularly bad walk but it was four years ago and the memory could be a bit hazy.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #144 on: December 29, 2021, 09:57:26 AM »
I should have mentioned that the Dunes course at Prairie Club rates a full point higher for being reasonably walkable over the Pines course which is walkable but not easily so. 



I had time to play one round and did not play the Dunes in part because I thought it looked like an unnecessarily long walk from the aerials.  I do not recall the Pines being a particularly bad walk but it was four years ago and the memory could be a bit hazy.


Jason,


The irony is that the Dunes is a jaunt away from the clubhouse with a first tee out past the driving range but once your out there the walking golfer is carefully considered by the routing while the cart paths probably are 50% longer as they are generally kept well away from play.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 09:39:06 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Steve Kohler

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #145 on: December 29, 2021, 02:53:02 PM »
I was lucky to experience a pretty diverse sampling of courses this year:


Yeamans Hall – 8
The practice range/first tee setting is fantastic and sets the tone for the round.  I particularly liked the 1st (Plateau), 3rd (Short) and 14th (Knoll) – but the course is consistently strong start to finish.  The greens are a highlight on just about every hole, with interesting contours, runoffs and unseen breaks.  The compelling design plus the easy walk, mature wooded setting and classic clubhouse make for an unforgettable day.

Bulls Bay – 6
Subtlety is thrown out the window here.  A totally manufactured site (a giant hill in the Lowcountry?) produces moments of great fun and drama – teeing off atop the hill to fairways below, blind approach shots to greens benched into the hillside, and a couple “where the hell am I aiming” moments.  There were a few too many forced carries for my taste though, and the par-5 13th was an odd hole whose second shot required either a 100yd layup or totally blind long iron over a heavily wooded area.
 
Whispering Pines – 7
Many of the early holes run together in my mind, but the closing stretch from 13 onward is top-tier golf.  The cape-like 14th is the standout to me, with options ranging from a long iron layup to busting driver towards the green.  The remaining closing holes all play along/over a creek that adds interest on almost every shot.  The conditioning was flawless and we hardly saw another group on a near-perfect March day.  The par-3 Needler course is fun as well, and included holes ranging in distance from a half-wedge to full 3 wood. 
 
Fox Chapel – 7
I didn’t see the course pre-renovation, but the course today definitely places it as the #2 course in Pittsburgh.  Despite concerns about the severity of the hills driving in, the course was very walkable and has several well-executed renditions of the MacRaynor templates.  I particularly like the Cape 5th (with a creek running the entire length of the hole and a well-guarded green) and Biarritz 17th (~70 yard green covering both front and back sections).
 
Pittsburgh Field Club – 6
Teeing off atop a steep hill gives a preview of most of the course laid out below you.  I found the course to be fun, but the hillier terrain and blind shots (compared to neighboring Fox Chapel) definitely gives an advantage to those with course knowledge.  The stretch from #8-14 is the strongest, with interesting terrain, a couple blind shots and the best greens complexes on the course.
 
Allegheny Country Club – 6
A tale of two nines – the front nine is classic, quirky old-school golf laid out by Donald Ross.  Most of my favorite holes came in the first half – including the downhill par-3 3rd and short par-4 7th with wild green contours.  The back nine, originally Ross but heavily modified by Gil Hanse, is good golf too but feels brawnier and more modern than the front 9.  The 18th is a strong par-4 finisher laid out in front of the gorgeous historic clubhouse.
 
Crooked Stick – 7
A pretty amazing design when you consider the course was created from a flat cornfield and was one of Pete Dye’s early designs before his “style” was well established.  There’s no doubt this is a modern course, but it is much more understated compared to some of Dye’s later designs.  It’s a hard course, but there’s plenty of strategic golf to be found here – including my favorites the par-4 dogleg 12th and the par-5 15th with a gigantic reverse “C” green.
 
World Woods – Pine Barrens – 6
Docked a point or two due its horrendous condition at the time of my visit.  The bones of a very good golf course exist here, with some exciting, high-drama holes like the 4th, 12th and 15th along with a handful of really solid holes.  I’m hopeful new ownership will return it to its full potential. 
 
World Woods – Rolling Oaks – 5
Could probably be a 6 if the conditions weren’t horrendous.  It’s a more coherent routing than Pine Barrens but has less strategic interest in the shots called for.  While there were a few “eye candy” moments, I found the design much more straightforward and the greens mostly uninteresting.  It’s still decent golf and a nice complement to the Pine Barrens course.  A refresh under new ownership could do wonders here as well.
 
Ocean Forest – 6
The setting is spectacular, the service is top-notch, and conditioning is perfect – life is pretty good if you’re playing here every day.  The best holes play along the marsh and beachside, including my favorite – the short par-4 13th with marsh up the left side, a hazard cutting across the fairway in the driving zone, and a small green.  Some of the inland holes blend together though and I would prefer less of a wall-to-wall manicured presentation.  Given its location, the impact of the wind can make for anything from a pleasant to painful round. 
 
Sea Island – Retreat Course – 4
Standard resort fare designed by Davis Love III – it’s a fairly straightforward course that’s laid out in front of you and doesn’t demand too much thought from the golfer.  Clearly the 3rd of three courses at Sea Island, you’ll enjoy your round but look forward to the many other resort amenities.

MCirba

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #146 on: January 01, 2022, 10:53:37 AM »
Langston Golf Course - Washington, DC - 2.5 - Built specifically as the course for African-Americans during the Jim Crow period, the place has a great interracial vibe.   Unfortunately, after a very solid front nine (unexpected as it is the older nine without architectural prime-time names attached), the back nine originally designed by William & David Gordon is very compromised by changes made in the 80s and 90s to accommodate a large driving range that eliminated what looked to be the best hole on the course and later a practice area (by the Ault/Clark firm).   Frankly, these modern touches are not very good and quite incongruous.  After a score of 3 or generously maybe 4 on the front nine the very awkward back just disappointed although the range was packed so it's probably all to the good.   Still and all, it's an exciting time for municipal golf in the District and it will be interesting to see what Beau Welling is able to achieve there.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 10:56:46 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

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MCirba

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #147 on: January 01, 2022, 11:18:12 AM »
Not sure what this all averages but here are my tallies for 2021;

10 - Ballyneal

8.5 - CapRock Ranch

8 - Whitinsville, Prairie Club (Dunes)

7.5 - Prouts Neck, Cherry Hills

6.5 - Prairie Club (Pines)

6 - Boothbay Harbor, Sunnybrook, Ballyneal (Mulligan), Bidermann

5.5 - Wawenock, Sunnybrook, Stafford, Knollwood

5 - Heritage Shores, Northeast Harbor, Belgrade Lakes, Cape Ann, Pelican Beach, Prairie Club (Horse), Pennhills

4.5 - Old York Road, Philly Country (Centennial), Radley Run, Frederick Peak

4 - Moorestown, Castine, Sugarloaf?, Mingo Springs, TPC Boston, Commonground (Short), Ironwood

3.5 - Carlisle Barracks, Overland Park, Grover Cleveland

3 - Cape Neddick, Holyoke, Pine Acres

2.5 - Langston

2 - Meadows

1 - Piney Apple

0 - Sugarloaf?
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jeff Schley

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #148 on: January 01, 2022, 01:46:05 PM »

 
TPC Boston – Norton, MA – 4 – After walking what seems to be 500 yards from the clubhouse across a wetlands bridge to the first tee, and then playing the 2nd that button-hooks into a pond to create a narrow green-site that’s a “2 or 20” proposition, expectations that this will be anything but a tournament course toughened for an event are quickly dispelled.   Despite some significant improvements over the years from the original course, it’s clear that the environmental areas, real estate considerations, and other limitations of the routing would handicap any attempt to add cohesive classical features.
 
Mike like your list with comments as these are insights we all leave out many times. I haven't played TPC Boston, but a golfing friend of mine who lives in Boston rates it quite a bit higher. Perhaps he is blinded by the tour event there, although you don't like the routing, he really likes the greens. What did you think of those? I have watched the NT event and yes the pros tear it up, but have it on my list next time I'm in Mass. to see the greens as there are several that look very interesting to me. Not saying they are 8/9/10 greens, but noteworthy. Unfortunately most of the greens aren't open in the front unless you work the ball from side to side, so forced carries over water and sand are needed.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

MCirba

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Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #149 on: January 01, 2022, 03:39:40 PM »
Jeff,

Happy New Year!

I think you nailed it with your question.   Many of the greens are quite creative and interesting to putt but there are many approach shots that simply aren't realistic options for the average or lesser player.   They serve their purpose for the touring pros who have the height and backspin to stop a ball on a trampoline it seems but not so much for the rest of us.   Then throw in the all over the map routing and it is what it is.   I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts after playing there, as well.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/