SEATON CAREW GC New Course: The 2021-22 Winter Tour Commences

[Sean_A]

With its heavy cape of industry it may sound unlikely to many people, but Seaton Carew is first and foremost a resort. Although, one of the most famous, or infamous, incidents of the area occurred when a ship wrecked monkey was hanged as a French Spy!  It seems far fetched, but by the time of the Napoleanic Wars, many people from the Hartlepool area had never seen a Frenchman before. Some biting cartoons of the day depicted the French with tails and claws. It is more likely a small boy unable to answer questions in English was hung.  It was sometimes the case that young boys were put to work priming the canons and thus called "powder monkies". Be that as it may, to this day folks from Hartlepool are sometimes referred to as monkey hangers.  Indeed, Hartlepool United's mascot is called H'Angus the Monkey!  Below is the statue at the town marina.



The founding of Durham and Yorkshire GC in 1874 was a direct result of the tourism which was dependant on the limitless beach.  Like many Victorian seaside resorts, Seaton Carew has seen better days, however, the course remains!  When founded it was the first golf club in Durham and Yorkshire, hence the sweeping title.  While an 18 hole course existed long before Dr Mackenzie came on the scene in 1925, it is the work of the famous architect which endures. 

Unusually, the course has 22 holes for in the mid 70s Frank Pennink designed four extra holes because the land was there!  The result is the club has five routings with the New Couse being the most recent addition.  At least four of the layouts are measured and rated for competitive play.  It is the Brabazon Course on which the big events are played and indeed the Brabazon was staged at Seaton Carew in 1985 and 2014.  I believe the main course remains the Old Course which is Mackenzie’s layout. For whatever reason, the day we turned up the New Course was in play. Fourteen of the Old Course holes are in play on this card; 1-9 & 14-18. 

A shortish two-shotter starts the round.


The interest at the green end of the course is immediately apparent.


A longish par five, the 2nd features another good green.


Cutting back toward the house, called Doctor, the short 3rd is quite an intimidating hole.


Well into the dunes, the 4th is another modest length par 4 and very attractive at that.






More to follow.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Don't you just love winter pin positions ! 

Sean

No doubt you will have done your homework and conferred with Clyde, but are you sure there is no Fernie left at all, even in the routing ?

Niall

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, Seaton Carew -- it's been a long while, Sean. I have a soft spot for it in memory, for if not the quintessential "average English course" (since it is ranked, I believe, somewhere in the Top 100 there) then at least a great example of the kind of courses that Tom D would praise -- understated lay of the land gems that are walkable, sustainable, playable for all, affordable, community focused, and of architectural interest and charm. In short, certainly "A Sean Arble Course", and one which can -- I assume -- proudly claim a "1" on the Arble Scale!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Some recent bunker work done there? Any idea who?


Looking forward to this one - always had a suspicion that Seaton Carew might be better than it gets credit for.

[Clyde Johnson]

Don't you just love winter pin positions ! 

Sean

No doubt you will have done your homework and conferred with Clyde, but are you sure there is no Fernie left at all, even in the routing ?

Niall

I think you're thinking of Seacroft, Niall!?

Some recent bunker work done there? Any idea who?


Looking forward to this one - always had a suspicion that Seaton Carew might be better than it gets credit for.

That's their newish head greenkeeper, Tom Coulson.

[Sean_A]

Don't you just love winter pin positions ! 

Sean

No doubt you will have done your homework and conferred with Clyde, but are you sure there is no Fernie left at all, even in the routing ?

Niall

Niall

I don't know who built the original course or how much of it Dr Mac may have incorporated it into his redesign. That said, I have strong suspicions that the greens were not part of the original design and they are the highlight of the course.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Clyde

You are quite correct, my mistake. Sean, carry on, don't mind me.

Niall

[Sean_A]

Seaton Carew New Tour Cont

The heavy use of artificial turf paths compounds the unsightly industrial backdrop. Despite the aesthetics, Seaton Carew delivers compelling golf, hole after hole.


Playing around a left fairway bunker, the lovely green offers a false sense of safety up the left. One doesn't need to be too wide before meeting a worse fate than missing right.


The short three-shotter 6th is not a hole that merits much time. The peculiarly named 7th, Crocodile, is a cracking short par 4 with yet another high quality green.




I am quite critical of the Bishop Course for its meagre offering of two par 3s. The Old Course has but three short holes, luckily all are very good and included in this iteration of Seaton Carew. The 8th.




A bit similar to the 4th, the 9th is another hole one needs to take advantage of to bank a score. The front nine is 3055 yards, the back nine is gulp...3676 yards!  Behind the 9th green.


More to follow.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean

The greens look lovely with a lot of false front/tiered areas that are beautifully done in terms of how they look, and presumably also how they play. My earlier comment re winter pin positions BTW wasn't a snidely remark. When it gets to winter green-keepers routinely stick the pins in places you wouldn't normally see or are un-pinnable during the summer and it makes for great fun.

Another great tour, well done.

Niall

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the tour. I've wanted to see Seaton Carew but the location isn't too convenient. I do like the looks of it so far.

While I can see where having 22 holes can have some advantages, a statement like this from their website isn't particularly appealing:
Seaton Carew Golf Club, the 10th oldest club in England, is fortunate to have a total of 22 holes, which means we can create 5 different course layouts. However, please note that only one course is ever in play at any one time, so you might like to visit us on 5 separate occasions to sample all of our great layouts.

Perhaps this multi-course configuration works well for the club, but I don't see how. Five scorecards?! This confuses more than intrigues - not sure that's what you want for potential visitors.

[Sean_A]

I can see the different layouts being helpful to rest holes and get work done on holes.

SEATON CAREW TOUR CONT

Departing from the Old Course, the 10th takes us toward the sea with a straight par 4. Pennink did a good job blending the green with the older holes.


Playing around or over a line of buckthorn etc., the 11th's dogleg is a bit abrupt. It seems to me there is a perfect opportunity to create a massive sandy waste area which players can decide how they want to tackle. Continuing play along the buckthorn line, the 12th is a pure execution hole. Two accurate shots are required.  The green is quite domed with lost ball danger down the right.


If one tries to bail left and pulls a good lie, the approach angle is not overly inviting.


The next two back to back par 5s highlight the difference between Dr Mac's graceful style at 14 versus what came later at 13. Its a fine line between creating a slog long hole and one which grabs the golfer's full attention. Despite the flat land, the 14th is glorious.






Cosy Corner (#15) is aptly named and the final short hole of the round.


More to follow.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

SEATON CAREW TOUR CONT

Two testing par 4s heading home help finish the round. At 433 yards, the 16th is a fine hole with a dip shy of the green. It is, however, 17 that shines brightest. Like the 16th, the hole slides a bit left.


The excellent raised green is a fleeting target.




After two harsh holes, the softer 18th feels like a good way to finish. Although, it is easy to mark a kiss on the card. 




I am pleased to have revisted Seaton Carew and been given the chance to see all 22 holes. Last time the condition of the greens was the talk of the day. This game the greens weren't in nearly the prime nick as previously, but their character was more evident. It is somewhat unusual for me to outright dislike holes, but the New has two par 5s (6 & 13) which merely add 1000 yards to the walk. Despite this criticism I am more impressed with this iteration than was the case for Bishop course. The greens are exceptional, but so too is the use of the dunes. Holes run through dunes, aside dunes and use dunes as broken ground.  Tees too use the dunes well, but not solely for raised tee shots. There are plenty of tees which are slightly raised or at grade level, but an effort was made not to leave drives completely blind. Yet the quality of the walk is not compromised. It is too bad that Seaton Carew's location isn't more attractive as it deserves to be much better known. I look forward to eventually seeing the Old Course.   2021

Seaton Carew Bishop Course
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64112.msg1557196.html#msg1557196

Planned Stops on the 2021-22 Winter Tour

Muirfield
Goswick
Renaissance
Cleeve Cloud

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

I expected to like SC but I loved it.  Doak reviewed it from the Car Park in the first CG and thankfully someone persuaded him that's just not wise. (Although it's still on the local map of courses in the recent edition.) The Peugeot Guide has it at 17 with which I cannot argue.


Its one of those rare courses where there's nothing to suggest something special, but where the Golf is (nearly) always fascinating. The set of greens is up there with the best in GB&I and if you don't have fun there I don't know what we'd find to talk about.


The extra 4 holes are just odd with little apparent thought as to why they were added? Surely by now the club must have figured out its best 18, keep a couple of extras' for maintenance and then focus on the best.


Another fine tour and so pleased I made the trip. We are lucky there are so many "surprises" like this. 


Recommended: a  much better break on the road North than e.g Woodhall Spa or Alnmouth Village

[Ally Mcintosh]

Funnily enough, I was playing with a Seaton Carew member yesterday.


He said the four extra holes were built because four of the original holes are on land that isn’t owned but on a 99 year lease. So they were built as a safety net.


Ally

[Sean_A]

I expected to like SC but I loved it.  Doak reviewed it from the Car Park in the first CG and thankfully someone persuaded him that's just not wise. (Although it's still on the local map of courses in the recent edition.) The Peugeot Guide has it at 17 with which I cannot argue.

Its one of those rare courses where there's nothing to suggest something special, but where the Golf is (nearly) always fascinating. The set of greens is up there with the best in GB&I and if you don't have fun there I don't know what we'd find to talk about.

The extra 4 holes are just odd with little apparent thought as to why they were added? Surely by now the club must have figured out its best 18, keep a couple of extras' for maintenance and then focus on the best.

Another fine tour and so pleased I made the trip. We are lucky there are so many "surprises" like this. 

Recommended: a  much better break on the road North than e.g Woodhall Spa or Alnmouth Village

Doak and Co are stingy with their scores. The layout we saw is a minimum rock solid 6. I suspect the Old Course is 7. We missed a few very cool holes.

I still prefer my treasured Alnmouth Village for its views, cool-quick golf, connection to the village and price. Its quite a rare combination. Besides, I don't throw money around like you Londoners. Yer so used to getting ripped off that playing the sucker is all in a day's day.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

There's a links course at Hartlepool GC which is only about 7-8 miles north of Seaton Carew.
Anyone played it or know much about its merits?
atb

[Jeff Schley]

Sean thank you for the review of a course I have never been to. A couple questions:
1. Have you played it in the summer heat? harder and faster then I assume?2. In the spring does it get vibrant blooms of color in the rough areas?3. Although unsightly agreed, the artificial paths probably have improved the tee to fairway transitions no? What was there previous?
Thanks

[Sean_A]

Sean thank you for the review of a course I have never been to. A couple questions:
1. Have you played it in the summer heat? harder and faster then I assume?2. In the spring does it get vibrant blooms of color in the rough areas?3. Although unsightly agreed, the artificial paths probably have improved the tee to fairway transitions no? What was there previous?
Thanks

I haven't seen the course under a summer sun...or under any sun!

SC does have texture, but I don't know about vibrant blooms.

I don't have any reason to think SC wouldn't be more bouncy in the summer. It played well in the winter.

I am not fan of artificial anything on courses, especially front and cente stuff such as paths in front of tees. In fact, I would look for a way to possibly reroute treated paths so they aren't front and centre. Eliminating blatant artificiality is worth the extra maintenance costs imo. I loved the old sea shell paths on links. Seem to be rare these days.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

1. Have you played it in the summer heat? harder and faster then I assume?

You haven't been to North East England, have you?

[Sean_A]

1. Have you played it in the summer heat? harder and faster then I assume?

You haven't been to North East England, have you?

Yep, remember the Premier Inn discussion with Spangles?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean, Tony,


Of the two 18 hole links courses between Lincolnshire and Scotland which is better, SC or Goswick?

[Mark Pearce]

1. Have you played it in the summer heat? harder and faster then I assume?

You haven't been to North East England, have you?

Yep, remember the Premier Inn discussion with Spangles?

Ciao

Was Jeff at the Premier Inn?  The one in Gateshead?  South of the river.  But still in the North East.....

[Sean_A]

1. Have you played it in the summer heat? harder and faster then I assume?

You haven't been to North East England, have you?

Yep, remember the Premier Inn discussion with Spangles?

Ciao

Was Jeff at the Premier Inn?  The one in Gateshead?  South of the river.  But still in the North East.....

I don't know about Jeff or even which Jeff is on your mind. Spangles, myself and two other chaps stopped in a Newcastle Premier Inn (can't remember which one) after our game at Seaton Carew.


Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

1. Have you played it in the summer heat? harder and faster then I assume?

You haven't been to North East England, have you?

Yep, remember the Premier Inn discussion with Spangles?

Ciao

Was Jeff at the Premier Inn?  The one in Gateshead?  South of the river.  But still in the North East.....

I don't know about Jeff or even which Jeff is on your mind. Spangles, myself and two other chaps stopped in a Newcastle Premier Inn (can't remember which one) after our game at Seaton Carew.


Ciao

I know.  My "you haven't been to NE England" was a response to Jeff Schley.  That's the Jeff I had in mind (his name is in the quote), who asked what SC was like in the heat.

[Richard Fisher]

To Mark’s question (and on the basis of four rounds at SC, two at Cleveland, and five at Goswick, over the years) I would I think divide ten games in the North East seven to Goswick, two to SC and one to Cleveland. Goswick’s location scores, inevitably, over those of both Cleveland and SC, and whilst I wish the Goswick club hadn’t lost its land to the south during WW2, there is (as Ran says) something very primal and memorable about a game there, which would always make it my preferred stop-off when heading through the North East to Scotland. But you’d have a really enjoyable time at all three, and for (incredibly) small amounts of money given the quality of each course.