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Joel_Stewart

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Gaudy golf courses
« on: October 29, 2021, 08:48:34 PM »
What's the gaudiest golf course you've played?


Gaudy being "extravagantly bright or showy, typically so as to be tasteless".



I'm sure a Trump course will get mentioned but for me what Tom Fazio has done at the Mountain course at Vintage Club was so over the top with water features and white bunkers it was offensive.

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2021, 09:09:22 PM »
A golf memory for me was a July day a few years ago with Sandy Tatum, playing Sand Hills in the morning and Shadow Creek in the afternoon.  Sandy wrote an article on playing the most natural course in America and the most unnatural in the same day.
I'm not sure if "Gaudy" is the right word for Shadow Creek, but it is very close.



Mark Kiely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2021, 09:22:35 PM »
Sounds like you're talking about the course itself being gaudy, but as you predicted, I have to mention a gold plaque near the clubhouse front door at Trump National L.A. that declares it the best golf course in America or something ridiculous like that.
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Greg Hohman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2021, 09:33:38 PM »
I pass the Vintage Club from time to time. It looks pretty gaudy from the street. :D
newmonumentsgc.com

Blake Conant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2021, 10:20:47 PM »
Gaudy typically equates with being ostentatious, but when someone pulls off gaudy it’s usually transcendent. Pine Valley is gaudy.  La Sagrada Familia is gaudy. Lady Gaga is gaudy.

How do you define the edge that good gaudy and bad gaudy teeters on? My best guess: all of those things are still rooted in the premise that form follows function. They are fundamentally sound, just much more ornate and with much more window dressing
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 10:23:12 PM by Blake Conant »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2021, 10:39:13 PM »
Blake:


That’s a good post, apart from conflating gaudy with Gaudi. 


For many, gaudy has such a negative connotation that I am fearful of naming examples, but if I go with your definition, Mike Strantz’s work was pretty gaudy.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2021, 10:52:31 PM »
Looked it up: bright, showy, tasteless…the place that comes to mind to me is Gleneagles, not the one you know but a 36 hole riding only real estate course/club north of Dallas. The name doesn’t help. Plus kind of a cheap Dallas big hair, cigars, leather bags, PXG clubs. If a televangelist played golf, this is the place. Did I mention riding only?

Peter Pallotta

Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2021, 10:55:34 PM »
Yes, that was a very good point by Blake. I had never thought of it like that before, but now that I do I can see it everywhere.
1950s 'Technicolour' was gaudy, and the Biblical epics of the time were gaudier still -- and yet when done right, they were also glorious!


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlf7OiiTJE

Steve Abt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2021, 11:59:52 PM »
Hard to disagree with Shadow Creek but, in its defense, I think it rates a clear third gaudiest behind Cascata and Wynn (each has incomparably over the top water features) in its own city.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2021, 06:16:23 AM »
DLF in India is goudy, particularly for its bunkers.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2021, 06:20:02 AM »
While not necessary for having an enjoyable round of golf, courses are like cars. Economy, mid size, full size, luxury, etc. In golf courses the luxury are typically seen as non architecture elements for most golfers (conditioning, water views, etc.). I appreciate all of them for what they offer and playing one gives us perspective to value the others.  In reference to this topic, 2 stand out to me.
Aviara in San Diego - very well landscaped and flowery Arnold Palmer design. Used to have a 4 seasons attached. Haven't been in 20 years almost so who knows now. I guess that is fitting with "Gaudy"

The second could be many desert courses most likely as growing green grass and beautiful flowers / landscaping is striking.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2021, 08:46:12 AM »
could someone let me know how to resize photos please ...
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 09:07:32 AM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Michael Chadwick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2021, 08:50:56 AM »
Gaudy typically equates with being ostentatious, but when someone pulls off gaudy it’s usually transcendent. Pine Valley is gaudy.  La Sagrada Familia is gaudy. Lady Gaga is gaudy.

How do you define the edge that good gaudy and bad gaudy teeters on? My best guess: all of those things are still rooted in the premise that form follows function. They are fundamentally sound, just much more ornate and with much more window dressing


Blake--I appreciate how you're trying to differentiate the meaning here. You're right that gaudy is a term of judgement, delivered by the viewer as opposed to the creator (of an experience, work of art, golf course, etc.). But gaudy results when extravagance and  excessiveness fail to provide aesthetic value. They may try in the process of its creation, but that's the difference between calling something gaudy vs. luxurious, irreverent, exaggerated and brilliant. Venice is ornate and beautiful; the Venetian is an approximation, an empty mirroring, a gaudy representation.


That's the only quibble I want to make, because I think the conversation gets misdirected if Mike Strantz is considered gaudy. He most certainly is not. His methods could have been, just as PV, Gaudi, and Lady Gaga could've been, because they push the envelope of what we as an audience accept as artful, tasteful, and aesthetically progressive. We confirm their work by calling it not gaudy, but groundbreaking.   


Desert golf is nearly an oxymoron, so it lends itself well to this example. Let's just say I remember driving around Bighorn in a golf cart and looking up the slope of the San Jacinto's and wishing I was at Stone Eagle instead.
Instagram: mj_c_golf

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2021, 12:48:59 PM »
I can give the Vegas courses a pass, because they are at least natural to their environment, as Vegas itself is hands down the most gaudy place I've ever been, and it not even close.

IMO...Trump National LA wins this category.

P.S.  I enjoyed this description from an online dictionary:

"Gaudy is the most positive of its synonyms. Flashy implies shallow showiness while tawdry suggests cheapness and sleaziness. Gaudiness suggests brightly clashing colors only slightly outlandish."
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 12:55:14 PM by Kalen Braley »

Gib_Papazian

Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2021, 01:25:46 PM »
Gaudy and tawdry - for wordsmiths out there - have slightly different connotations in actual use, putting aside some dictionaries lazily use these two words to define and cross-reference each other.

The Blue Ribbon winner for Tawdry Design is Bali Hai in Vegas.

No doubt. A John Waters movie as a golf course, with costume jewelry so obviously plastic, it belongs on Divine at a trailer park wedding.   

There is really nothing cheap about Shadow Creek, it is certainly over-the-top in spots - and maybe a step or two over the demarcation line of needlessly ornate . . . but so is the Sultan of Brunei's bathroom.

#17 at Shadow Creek is like a movie set from the Blue Lagoon, except without Brooke Shields - although the Head Pro told Naccarato and I that Michael Jackson used to sit on the rocks and stare at the waterfall for hours.

The primary advantage of Bali Hai is it provides enough a gap at the end of the McCarran runway so planes don't plow into the Mandalay Bay casino.

I swear to God, Adam Clayman came within a whisker of bouncing his 8-iron tee shot off the bottom of a 727 taking off - all for $350, not including a chirpy, scantily clad "Parmate caddy" - my daughter's age - who does everything but, well, carry your golf bag.









Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2021, 01:45:47 PM »
A golf memory for me was a July day a few years ago with Sandy Tatum, playing Sand Hills in the morning and Shadow Creek in the afternoon.  Sandy wrote an article on playing the most natural course in America and the most unnatural in the same day.
I'm not sure if "Gaudy" is the right word for Shadow Creek, but it is very close.


I’ve played them both and your analysis is spot-on.


Sand Hills is all natural, built on a giant dune landscape and Shadow Creek is all manufactured, not resembling the surrounding terrain in any way.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 01:49:41 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Brian Marion

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2021, 10:13:04 AM »
Indian Wells Celebrity course


lots of waterfalls......flowers beds, clutter


"Any questions?", David S. Pumpkins




Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2021, 11:05:44 AM »
That’s a good post, apart from conflating gaudy with Gaudi. 
A golf course by Gaudi might be pretty cool.:)
Atb

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2021, 11:34:35 AM »
That’s a good post, apart from conflating gaudy with Gaudi. 
A golf course by Gaudi might be pretty cool. :)
Atb


If Park Güell is anything to go by, it would certainly be pretty wild!
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2021, 12:20:34 PM »
Hands down for is the Bridges at Rancho Santa Fe.


From the crazy, cart-ball only topography to the giant Roman bath in men's locker room to the Bentley's and Aston Martins lined up in front of the club house....wow...!


https://www.thebridgesrsf.com/




Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2021, 01:50:56 PM »
That’s a good post, apart from conflating gaudy with Gaudi. 
A golf course by Gaudi might be pretty cool. :)
Atb
If Park Güell is anything to go by, it would certainly be pretty wild!
F.
Just what I was thinking Marty.
And the Sagrada Familia and a few other of his projects too.
Just imagine a Casa Battlo like clubhouse!
Mind, the Sagrada Familia still isn’t finished and it’s been quite a while since it was started!
Arb

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2021, 04:55:11 PM »
Indian Wells Celebrity course


lots of waterfalls......flowers beds, clutter


"Any questions?", David S. Pumpkins


This one came to mind, as well, but really it's not so different from so many other Palm Springs courses, it's just that it gets so over the top in the last stretch of holes. The front nine and first few holes on the back are pretty normal (I suppose there's one water feature with a waterfall on the front). But once you get to 13 every hole on the way in has wter in play and the majority of those water features are way over the top, boulder-strewn to excess and with waterfalls. It's too much all at once.


But Classic Club on the other side of I-10 is worse. It goes on all day there. I think there's water in play on 12 or 13 holes? And I saw maybe one water feature on the entire course that didn't also include a waterfall. The place struck me as a daily fee version of Shadow Creek, designed by Arnold Palmer.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2021, 06:37:38 PM »
Interesting nearly a full page in and ANGC hasn't popped up.

I'd have to think in terms of sheer dollars spent on maintaining the course, acquiring land, making significant changes, etc...that its spent the most of any course in history... by a fair margin.

Or do they get a break cause they host The Masters, opt for "patrons" over "fans", and speak in hushed/reverent tones! ;D

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2021, 09:56:11 PM »
Interesting nearly a full page in and ANGC hasn't popped up.

I'd have to think in terms of sheer dollars spent on maintaining the course, acquiring land, making significant changes, etc...that its spent the most of any course in history... by a fair margin.

Or do they get a break cause they host The Masters, opt for "patrons" over "fans", and speak in hushed/reverent tones! ;D


Is it gaudy or just desecrated?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gaudy golf courses
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2021, 11:16:52 AM »
Interesting nearly a full page in and ANGC hasn't popped up.

I'd have to think in terms of sheer dollars spent on maintaining the course, acquiring land, making significant changes, etc...that its spent the most of any course in history... by a fair margin.

Or do they get a break cause they host The Masters, opt for "patrons" over "fans", and speak in hushed/reverent tones! ;D


Is it gaudy or just desecrated?


Hard to say, but if there was ever a course to win the Joan Rivers Under-The-Knife award it would certainly be the hands down winner. For that matter throw in the Jurassic Park Spare-No-Expense award too.

I figured the tasteless aspect would be controversial depending on how you look at it, but there is no doubt for amount of money spent.