The least expensive way to maintain sand bunkers up to modern standards

[Mike_Young]

From an old Tom Paul thread:  "As far as bunker rakes being around pre-1957, they must have been to some extent because Macdonald talked about banning them at The Links Club and Macdonald died in 1939. Tillinghast also talked about running elephants through bunkers on tournament day and Tillie died in the 1940s."
Modern standards are the problem moreso than bunkers.  They are not meant for every course out there.  TV, golf real estate developments used golf for marketing all during the 80's and forward.  The faster the green, the nicer the bunker then the more the lot cost.  Also, the supt. business realized that advancement often was based on exceptional maintenance.  I'm all for supts learning and knowing how to provide exceptional maintenance but I'm more impressed by the ones who know WHEN to do so...So for a minute let's go back to basics....a bunker is a hole in the ground.  Blow out the main drain line and make sure there are not gophers or muskrats that died in there.  The clean your internal drains.  Place new sand every few years and reworks the external edges to make sure no water enters and you should be ok.  Everything after that in gravy, including rakes...

[Pete Lavallee]

I play 10 rounds a month at the most popular muni in SD, no it’s not Torrey Pines! Because we have union labor they only can afford to rake the bunkers once a week; on Fridays. During COVID the rakes were removed and you were able to place your ball. Trust me no ones sand save percentage improved. Bunker shots, even from perfect lies are still harder than hitting off grass. Now that the rakes are back you can get a decent lie or be in a footprint; it’s truest amazing how many inconsiderate golfers play our game. Even from perfect lies the best bunker players only get up and down 50% of the time. What do you suspect the percentage is playing from a footprint? You are now challenged just to get the ball out of the bunker and a 2 putt is not guaranteed. I’m sure sure even before the advent of the rake players were asked to smooth the surface with their foot. Do we really want to ratchet up the difficulty from down in 2, 40-50% of the time to down in 3, 10% of the time? Our UK brethren say suck it up, but their sand is much more impervious to a really shitty lie. I’m conflicted, bunkers should be a penalty but not the end of a decent round, due to the inconsiderate actions of the uncaring golfers. Now if bunkers were totally unmaintained it would be fair for all.

[Mike_Young]

Do we really want to ratchet up the difficulty from down in 2, 40-50% of the time to down in 3, 10% of the time? Our UK brethren say suck it up, but their sand is much more impervious to a really shitty lie. I’m conflicted, bunkers should be a penalty but not the end of a decent round, due to the inconsiderate actions of the uncaring golfers. Now if bunkers were totally unmaintained it would be fair for all.

With the increase in distance being the thing everyone talks about perhaps inconsistent bunker conditions would have more guys aiming for the center of greens or not cutting corners in fairways.  Today, the recovery from "short side" shots is often much easier from a bunker than short grass...JMO

[SL_Solow]

It is nice to read a thread that impacts on architecture and does not veer into the political.  However in reading it, I am reminded of King Canute who purportedly ordered the tide not to come in. At least with respect to private clubs in the USA, members have moved from an arms race on greens' speeds, which continues, to competing on the appearance and condition of bunkers,  Almost invariably, when bunkers are "sub standard, the call goes out to install one of the new drainage systems such as Better Billy.  Superintendents are obliged to go along, even if they are dubious regarding long term benefits.  This is often accompanied by demands for white manufactured sand, even on courses built in areas thousands of miles from natural white sand.  Many of us believe this is wrong for the game but I believe that ship has sailed based on many conversations with Greens' Chairmen and Superintendents

[Mike_Young]

Many of us believe this is wrong for the game but I believe that ship has sailed based on many conversations with Greens' Chairmen and Superintendents

Shelly,Hope all is well.  I think you may be right when the decision is a greenchair/committee and their supt.  BUT remember there are only about 2000 clubs with green chairmen now. They are the minority.   The owners of the other 10,000 or so courses base it on what they can sell a round of golf.

[SL_Solow]

Mike,  I am with you.  Some try to sell these systems as long term cost savers.  I am more than a little dubious.  But expectations are created.  How do you think "resort" or "destination" courses are dealing with this issue?

[Mike_Young]

Mike,  I am with you.  Some try to sell these systems as long term cost savers.  I am more than a little dubious.  But expectations are created.  How do you think "resort" or "destination" courses are dealing with this issue?

All based green fee.  If they are selling lots then cap con or BBB is no big cost but if they have slowed down then you never know what the GM will say....I will say the newer bunker drainage systems work well if a club can afford them but the "saving you will realize" sale is a hard one for small clubs...I would rather reduce my bunkers and have good ones where I have them...JMO

[Bruce Katona]

I'm of the opinion of offering two opinions - both of which will save time (maintenance and play):


1. Lift, rake, place.
2. 1 shot penalty, take the ball out of the bunker and drop no nearer the hole.


Option 1 eliminates hitting out of footprints and other things the average (think 14-18 handicap) can't always navigate successfully on the 1 st try.


Option 2 would certainly speed up play at the public courses as many of the high handicappers struggle out of the sane, even if the bunkers are properly maintained.


Any option to speed up play is noteworthy and should be given consideration in my mind.


BRK

[Kalen Braley]

I'm of the opinion of offering two opinions - both of which will save time (maintenance and play):

1. Lift, rake, place.
2. 1 shot penalty, take the ball out of the bunker and drop no nearer the hole.

Option 1 eliminates hitting out of footprints and other things the average (think 14-18 handicap) can't always navigate successfully on the 1 st try.

Option 2 would certainly speed up play at the public courses as many of the high handicappers struggle out of the sane, even if the bunkers are properly maintained.

Any option to speed up play is noteworthy and should be given consideration in my mind.

BRK

Bruce,

I agree we already have bifurcated rules for lost balls and OB.  Why not a rule for everyday joes that you can drop out of a bunker with a 1 stoke penalty, no closer to hole?  There are certainly a few times when I would have opted for this when faced with horrendous lies in someone's foot print.

[Drew Maliniak]

100% agree on the Sheep Ranch bunkers.


Perhaps you have three or four real bunkers to test the bunker shot as a skill. But you get the aiming lines, penalty and challenge as much (or sometimes more) out of the Sheep Ranch bunkers.

[Brian Marion]

From the green chair view.


Follow the money……. Members, potential members and public golfers expect value for dues/fee paid. In their eyes, value equals conditions. Good bad or indifferent, that’s the truth.


Throw on top of that the numbers it takes to rebuild after washouts and it quickly adds up. I’ve ran the numbers at my club, it’s astounding.


I can try to be a “keeper of the game” but education takes a long time.


The best in golf is for a lot of Americans, hard to get to and play, if not impossible. (Oakmont comes to mind)if your average golfer even cares to see it or try.


Most want what they see on tv (PGA tour, masters) trying to convince them that local sand from the river is “more natural” is like telling them a brown car hides dirt better.  Who cares, I’ll pay for black.

[Rob Marshall]

We put in flat bottom bunkers. Can’t wash out. Ball always seem to end up against the grass face wall or hang up in grass which is actually worse. They are a true hazard.


“I don’t remember hearing anyone suggest that bunkers aren’t hazards. I do want them to be “perfectly prepared playing services“ but even if so, they are still hazards best avoided for most golfers. Bunker play might be the best part of my game, but I would still rather take my chances in most cases from grassy areas near the green. Tour players are getting up and down less often from sand than otherwise.”


Really agree with this Brad. It may not be the best part of my game but I’m not bad and I would take a lie in the grass any day. I grew up playing grass bunkers as a kid.  My father called them “elephant ears”