Pimples

[Ed Brzezowski]

Played Hidden Creek/ Dormie network yesterday. They had just regrassed their greens and was pleased to see they retained the " pimple' on the eighth green. A short ( 270-280 yard) hole with this feature making the approach shot very interesting. You really had to be on the correct side to have a reasonable putt at a birdie,  it's only a 30-40 yard approach depending upon the wind.


I have read this was a common feature in days gone by and most have been removed. How many clubs you folks see retain them from the original design?


thanks
ed

[JESII]

Ed, I play at Lulu and we have several areas of "pimples" around the golf course and I love them...but I've never seen one on a green approaching the size of that one at Hidden Creek.

[MCirba]

Thankfully, a great pimple near the center of the green on the 17th has been restored this year at Hollywood by Brian Schneider and really impacts the strategy depending on hole location.

[Craig Disher]

It's not on the green but a couple of feet in front of it. Kyle Franz has put somethiing larger than a pimple in the middle of the approach to SPCC's #13.

[Thomas Dai]

Pimples or even wee humps or semi-flat mounds whether on a green or around a green or somewhere on a fairway can be splendid features. Plenty of uneven lies and breaks on putts. Not to be overdone though.
I’ve wonder if more bunkers weren’t hollows filled with sand or even just hollows but were actually pimples or small humps or mounds instead to what extent playability would change? Mow them not rake them, shots roll over them or bounce off them at variable angles and speeds etc.
Atb

[Mark Jackson]

One of my favorite "pimple" features is on the 17th green at Mayfield Country Club. When I lived in Cleveland, I was a member at Mayfield so had an opportunity to play the hole countless times. The 17th is a downhill par 3 with a yardage around 175 yards. The green is surrounded by bunkers in the front, and to the left and right. The back-center portion of the green has a pimple and it seemed like they would more often than not place the hole to one side or the other of the pimple. It always made for a difficult putt trying to gauge the line when putting over the pimple.


Below is a picture of the green from the tee that I took a few years ago. I don't have a very good picture of the green itself or the pimple as it currently exists, but I believe this is one of the original features of the green. The second and third pictures were taken when Mayfield hosted the Western Amateur in 1915. The pimple is pretty visible in both photos (the pin was placed directly behind the pimple in the third photo). 

[Tom_Doak]

 shots roll over them or bounce off them at variable angles and speeds etc.

But that would be unfair!


/s

[archie_struthers]

 




You know as we age we hopefully learn more but I still don't like that hole at Hidden Creek....just don't
 get the strategy

[Steve Kline]

Hyde Park has at least four in the greens - holes 10, 12, 13, and 18.


On hole 10 the pimple is front right. It's much deeper behind the pimple than it is in front. And, it the slope off the pimple is steeper right than it is slope. In a good way, I hate this one. I know it's going to be a difficult par when the flag is near. The ball will really run onto this green. If the ball gets on the green with any speed it is going 25-30 feet past the hole. But, coming up short is no good as you will be afraid of going long on your third. The play is really to hit it long and right and take your two putt or up and down back up the hill. But, I never get myself to do it. By the way, long of the green is dead.


12 is the long par and there is a pimple on the front left. It has a plateau on top of it. The front side of the pimple ties into the false front on the green. Chipping to a hole on top of the pimple is very difficult. And, I've putted it off the green trying to putt to a hole on flat top of the pimple.


13 could be considered more a buried elephant than a pimple as it's at least three feet high. It's a reachable par 5. You really want to be on the correct side of the pimple for a makeable putt and to miss the green on the side of the pimple the hole is on for an easier up and down. But, on the right that means you are short siding yourself. Also, the back side of the pimple is pretty high and makes for a difficult wedge shot to get close.


The 18th hole has two pimples - one back left and one back right. There is plenty of room to put the hole left, in the middle, or right of the pimples, which very effectively divides the back of the green into three sections. Sometimes they get cheeky and put the hole behind the pimple. Basically, you are not going to make the putt if you have to putt over them.


All of these are very annoying and excellent "hazards."

[Tommy Williamsen]

I spent the last three days at HC. Count me as one who likes the 8th green. I played with two guys that drove the green. One walked off with a birdie, one sank a five footer for par. Drive the green at your own peril for you just might be on the wrong side of the pimple. I normally have a fifty yard sand wedge into the green. With that club you should be able to hit the shot to the correct place on the green. If not, then suffer the consequences of a poor shot.

[archie_struthers]

 


Tommy I've had some good times at HC over the years and watched the whole birthing process. It's a really nice golf course!


However the 8th hole just gives too much advantage to the longer hitters IMHO


Have played with lots of guys who can't fly the center bunker from the front tees let alone the back so they get to deal with the pimple with a 115 -130 yard shot rather than a putter. Given my proclivity for putting over that shot I think the risk reward is skewed. It's not like the bomber has to hit it straight.


Just for you to chew on as we discuss favorite holes !   No malice

[Tommy Williamsen]

Archie, being over a 100 yards might also give the player a blind shot to the green, which might be a bit too much for the average player.

[archie_struthers]

 


exactly , there isn't enough risk for the expert !

[Thomas Dai]

shots roll over them or bounce off them at variable angles and speeds etc.

But that would be unfair!

There’s a wonderful British word, don’t know if it’s used elsewhere in the World and if so whether it has the same meaning, to describe some players reaction to such a situation …….. ‘diddums’. Look it up!
Atb

[Jeff_Brauer]

I have seen JN and John Fought use them, a bit softer than some shown, and usually just in front of the center of the green, not the exact center.  And the reason is so that the middle pin position is protected, and not, as per another thread, the automatic safe place to be.  I may be misremembering, but I think Fought has used 2 pimples - one long and one short of the center, to test distance control to that dead center pin.


I've been accused of locating them on the ass of progress, whatever that means.

[MCirba]

There used to be a large pimply mound front and center of the 1st green at Seaview Bay, courtesy of Hugh Wilson.


If my flickr still worked I'd post a pic, but alas.  I believe it was removed by the Gordon's in the 50s.


Also, Mountain Branch in Joppa, MD built by Jeff Matthai, Davis Sezna, and Olin Belsinger has a cool back center pimple on the uphill par four 15th hole.

[Thomas Dai]

There’s a oft celebrated ‘pimple’ in front of the 4th green at TOC - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tnILwQqZB4I -
Atb

[Tim Martin]

There is one on Tom Winton’s 210 yard par three 17th hole at Mill River CC in Stratford, Connecticut. It affects the tee shot as well as pitches and putts.

[MCirba]

Perhaps the most needless one ever built overwhelms the right side of the green of mega-dropshot 11th hole at Sugarloaf GC in Maine.


It ensures that cowardly tee balls aimed right avoiding the Carrabassett River are given a second chance at a washing as it propels balls played from the right side bunker or rough speedily across the green to the rushing waters beyond.

[archie_struthers]

 


Back in the Golden Age of GCA we had a marvelous discourse on the "pimple"  on the back middle of 18 at Pine Valley. Pat Mucci et al had some great discussions on this beauty!

[mike_beene]

After not being able to say it last year I am happy to respond to Tom D. this way: “The fair comes in October”!
And it does!

[Tal Oz]

Ed, a pair of modern gems that come to mind are Friar's Head and Rustic Canyon.

Rustic has it's fair share of internal greens bumps (2 and 4 come to mind) but I like to think of a pimple as something even smaller and more subtle. 6 towards the back middle of the green has a sublime pimple that always seems to affect putts ever so slightly away from the predominant slope of the green. Holing putts to the back part of the green without being pin high is really tricky. On a green with such wild slopes that little feature really creates that hundreds-of-plays subtlety that keeps you coming back.16 also has a pimple on the right side.

5 at Friars has that great one in the front of the green that dictates strategy and club selection all way back to the tee. It may be larger than a pimple and more a knob. Perhaps a pimple shouldn't be something you can spot from 300y away, I digress.

[Mike Worth]

exactly , there isn't enough risk for the expert !

I was a HC member for 17 years. #8 is a very good (but not great) hole.


I don’t necessarily agree that there’s too great an advantage for long hitters. I have eagled # 8 five times. But I have at least 3x that number of 3 putt pars.


I thought I saw an earlier post where someone questioned whether there was strategy involved. If you are a long hitter, the strategy is to drive the ball to the side of the green or fairway where the pin is, otherwise you have to navigate the pimple.

I’ve been in plenty of games and matches with short hitters. No short hitter tries to carry the center bunker — it’s too far. They normally go to the left of it because the hill is shorter there and the ball tends to run out more than on the right side.  As is often the case, a short hitter can be a good wedge player and they can quickly turn a driving disadvantage into an up and down birdie. Especially true because the short drive player hits first and if they drop their chip shot close to the pin, the long hitter is under pressure to do the same.

As long hitter, you’re under more pressure to birdie the hole as you do have an advantage.  But it’s not an insurmountable advantage and one can often feel they missed an opportunity if they don’t beat the short hitter on the hole.  IMO, that’s sufficient strategy and intrigue for an otherwise ineffectual hole in the middle of the round.


Similarly, if you’re an “expert“ you have to execute well or you don’t get a birdie.  And if you’re that good and don’t score a 3 you probably feel that you failed.   


Related, but not directly on point, when I first joined HC, I played in a tourney with a local Philly PGA section pro.  If I were to name him, Philly area players would instantly recognize his name.  Anyway, he compared the pimple to the miniature golf equivalent of the windmill hole – – he was not a fan LOL.

[Mike Worth]

Further to the discussion about HC #8, Coore and Crenshaw have another pimple at HC that is not mentioned as often.


#17 is a shortish, birdiable par 5.  The hole plays from 505-530 yds - depending on tee location. Longer hitters can reach in 2 shots.


About 30 yds in front of the green is a small, more subtle than #8, pimple.  I can’t think of any instance where that pimple resulted in a ground approach shot being kicked into a bunker or the rough. That pimple usually slows momentum and diverts your ball slightly in one direction or the other preventing you from reaching the green and having a 2 putt birdie.

[archie_struthers]

 


Mike thanks for the reply . Here’s where we differ .  Although it may be a tough two putt , even less than 50/50 if you drive it to the wrong side, it’s not very penal.  So for me the risk is mitigated greatly .


Likewise the difficulty in making birdie to a tough pin from more than 100 yards is unlikely for all but the very best of iron players .  So you can blast away with little or no fear in hopes of putting .


I can’t reach it anymore but can clear the bunker so it’s a better hole for me now than before 😎. Pitch really challenging


I’m guessing you play really well but if you want to sit 100 yards out vs me putting from the wrong side pretty sure you lose that match ……unless you are tour quality with your wedges ..:and even then I might wager a little


This is certainly not an indictment of HC which is real fun especially when it hard and fast . I just never thought it should have been favorably compared to some of the great courses in our area just because two of the best guys in the business designed it !