[Kalen Braley]

I don't think there really need be any concern.  The USGA blue blazers can use Google Earth same as I and plainly see the following fixes, aka best solution:

- New back tee on 1 next to the pool, so you can check out the hottest player wives before you tee off.
- New back tee on 9 over the turnpike.  Nothing says forced carry like hitting a tee ball over a 6 lane highway.
- New back tee on 10 next to what appears to be the caddy shack. Grab a sandwich at the turn and hang with some fine chaps.
- Nowhere to go on 11,  but no problemo, just call it to a long par 3.

Easy Peasey...

[jeffwarne]

I don't think there really need be any concern.  The USGA blue blazers can use Google Earth same as I and plainly see the following fixes, aka best solution:

- New back tee on 1 next to the pool, so you can check out the hottest player wives before you tee off.
- New back tee on 9 over the turnpike.  Nothing says forced carry like hitting a tee ball over a 6 lane highway.
- New back tee on 10 next to what appears to be the caddy shack. Grab a sandwich at the turn and hang with some fine chaps.
- Nowhere to go on 11,  but no problemo, just call it to a long par 3.

Easy Peasey...

Now you're thinking, along with the 29 stimp.

[Brad Lawrence]

Doesn’t seem to USGA sees an issue.


[/color]
[/color]“It shows you how smart and intuitive these players are to figure out what’s the best possible route to get the ball in the hole. I don’t fault them for that. It’s a little challenging manging the people and keeping everybody safe. I think if the conditions were a little different, maybe their strategy wouldn't have been the same. But because it's so soft, maybe it changed their mindset."

[Tom_Doak]

I wasn’t at the 2016 US Open at Oakmont, but I was there for 2007 and a lot of those areas were spectator free then.  For example there were no spectators between 12 and 14.

Also, in 2016 Dustin Johnson hit a drive on 11 that almost ended up in the 10th fairway and got TIO relief for a TV tower, but here weren’t any spectators as I recall.

John:


Interesting, maybe they will let it happen on some of the holes.  But it's a lot tougher thing to fix if half the field is playing the hole that way, instead of just one guy in the final pairing!

[Kalen Braley]

Doesn’t seem to USGA sees an issue.



“It shows you how smart and intuitive these players are to figure out what’s the best possible route to get the ball in the hole. I don’t fault them for that. It’s a little challenging manging the people and keeping everybody safe. I think if the conditions were a little different, maybe their strategy wouldn't have been the same. But because it's so soft, maybe it changed their mindset."

Brad,

That type of inane babble reminds me of how the BCS committee used to justify their flawed post season setup year in and year out by claiming the controversy was good for the game.  I'm not surprised in the slightest to see them shucking and jiving yet again instead of addressing the proverbial 800 lb. elephant in the room.

[Jon Sweet]

So... for a full field event. With galleries. Two rules could prevent this:


1. Rule 5.6a. Unreasonable delay. Waiting for another fairway to clear out is unreasonable to me.

2. If they choose not to wait, Rule 1, serious misconduct for endangering players and or spectators. Eventual disqualification.

Of course, the problem is the distance. Even Oakmont being slowly killed by distance issues. Sad.

Was the scoring average not 76? LOL

[Brad Lawrence]

Doesn’t seem to USGA sees an issue.



“It shows you how smart and intuitive these players are to figure out what’s the best possible route to get the ball in the hole. I don’t fault them for that. It’s a little challenging manging the people and keeping everybody safe. I think if the conditions were a little different, maybe their strategy wouldn't have been the same. But because it's so soft, maybe it changed their mindset."

Brad,

That type of inane babble reminds me of how the BCS committee used to justify their flawed post season setup year in and year out by claiming the controversy was good for the game.  I'm not surprised in the slightest to see them shucking and jiving yet again instead of addressing the proverbial 800 lb. elephant in the room.

The BCS isn’t the only reason college football is unwatchable, but it certainly didn’t help.

[Tim Martin]

A few guys at TPC River Highlands over the years have played to the par five 6th fairway off of 7 tee for what is described as a more desired angle of approach into the green.

[Peter Flory]

Are the players hitting to other fairways performing better than the ones that don't do that?  I.e. is there evidence that the routes they are taking are really advantageous? 

[William_G]

"because they can"

[Mike_Clayton]

Lukas Michel - the current Mid-Am champion - played at Oakmont and made an interesting observation.


'All the penal bunkers are designed to be 280-320y drive zone on each hole - but not if you go down another hole. Also the bunkers have high front faces but are easy to get out of backwards from another fairway.'


 'It shows how contrived the courses are to host a US Open.

[Jon Sweet]

Lukas Michel - the current Mid-Am champion - played at Oakmont and made an interesting observation.


'All the penal bunkers are designed to be 280-320y drive zone on each hole - but not if you go down another hole. Also the bunkers have high front faces but are easy to get out of backwards from another fairway.'


 'It shows how contrived the courses are to host a US Open.

Wait. So a bunker raised on the hole side is contrived for the open? Should they raise it on the tee side to keep balls out? I’m confused.

[Mike_Trenham]

Many of these areas are at the tee end of the fairways, rather than adding bunkers or rough just absolutely litter these areas with deep divots the weeks of these championships.  It would take 14 days to fill in but a simple plan with limited impact on the members.

[Mike_Clayton]

Lukas Michel - the current Mid-Am champion - played at Oakmont and made an interesting observation.


'All the penal bunkers are designed to be 280-320y drive zone on each hole - but not if you go down another hole. Also the bunkers have high front faces but are easy to get out of backwards from another fairway.'


 'It shows how contrived the courses are to host a US Open.

Wait. So a bunker raised on the hole side is contrived for the open? Should they raise it on the tee side to keep balls out? I’m confused.

He was making two seperate points. The first was if you drive into a fairway bunker on another fairway you play out over the low lip of the bunker - the end closest to the tee as opposed to the end closest the green which are much steeper.


The 2nd point I think was how the dimensions of the course - width, speed and length - are distorted to keep scores high in the Open.
It was Pete Dye who did the extensive study of the greens in 1962 and determined they were much slower than they are now. It'd be interesting to know if the fairways are narrower now than they were.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

I think it's kind of quirky and cool. The problem I have is that it's operationally shitty, and absolutely will slow down play. Thus I am in opposition.


For those that have observed tournament golf at St. Andrews, how much is play slowed down by the proximity and optionality of shared fairways and greens?

[Mike_Clayton]

I think it's kind of quirky and cool. The problem I have is that it's operationally shitty, and absolutely will slow down play. Thus I am in opposition.


For those that have observed tournament golf at St. Andrews, how much is play slowed down by the proximity and optionality of shared fairways and greens?

I played 3 Opens there - even made the cut in one! - and the speed of play seemed barely impacted by either the double greens or the shared fairways. Sure, there were times you had to wait but rounds there were no slower than Muirfield, Carnoustie or anywhere else.

[Tom_Doak]

It was Pete Dye who did the extensive study of the greens in 1962 and determined they were much slower than they are now. It'd be interesting to know if the fairways are narrower now than they were.

Mike:


Tom Marzolf's work on the course ~15 years ago narrowed the fairways AND moved the bunkers in tighter, so they wouldn't be stranded out in the bluegrass rough.  The Church Pews take up more than twice the area they used to!

[Matt_Cohn]

Did anyone do this in the last two US Opens there? If not, why not?

[Peter Pallotta]

We used to talk about 'whole-hole' architecture; looks like we'll soon have to start talking about 'whole-course' architecture. Whether it's because of 'technology' or 'better athletes' or 'equipment optimization' seems rather besides the point.

[James Brown]

The scores have been super high so far at Oakmont, as they always are.  Seems like these alternate routes are not actually scoring better. 

[mike_beene]

At least on the Old Course it is clear who has the right of way( except I get confused on 1 and 18) and everyone is doing it. Even the 7-11 cross isn’t bad. However, in regular non tournament play, I have seen a few direct hits and a lot of ducking and diving. If you built an Old Course copy in the states my brethren at the bar would cash in.

[Jeff Schley]

I like width off the tee and a shared fairway is a welcome site for my crooked driving. However 1/9 at Oakmont aren't shared at all, so I see a conundrum there. There are a couple memorable shared fairways I appreciate and recall. Maidstone on 18, I played up the 1st fairway to give myself a better angle and avoid the crosswind. Also on Shoreacres 9&18 play in the same direction and share a fairway which I think is quite unique. It provides width for both holes and doesn't really hold up play since you are moving in the same directly typically. Are there any others like this?  I can't recall any off the top of my head.

[Matthew Rose]

Somewhere, a USGA executive is calling a nursery, and Lon Hinkle is sitting back with a stiff drink and a smug expression.

[Sean_A]

At least on the Old Course it is clear who has the right of way( except I get confused on 1 and 18) and everyone is doing it. Even the 7-11 cross isn’t bad. However, in regular non tournament play, I have seen a few direct hits and a lot of ducking and diving. If you built an Old Course copy in the states my brethren at the bar would cash in.

I agree. TOC does have head on a swivel issues with daily play. It's also not uncommon to wait on greens for guys who have 100 foot putts.

Make fairways narrow enough with severe punishment for being 20 yards from the centre of fairways and golfers will seek out alternatives.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

I recall a European Tour event where the participants were deliberately playing down the wrong fairway.
The next day the advertising boards around the tees had been moved such that a shot down aimed down the wrong fairway would clatter into the advertising boards. Funnily enough all the participants aimed down the right fairway for the rest of the tournament.
Atb

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