[Garland Bayley]

Relief for divot.
You've been talking to A. V. Macan? Bringing back the stymie was one of his favorite topics.
Bring back the stymie.
Also talking to the USGA? My understanding is that they eliminated stroke and distance a couple of times only to reinstate it again. I say two strokes for a whiff, one for OB!
Eliminate Stroke and Distance.


Oh. You mean golf architecture.

[Garland Bayley]

Low single digit on road hole at Old Mac, "they shouldn't put a bunker there" in reference to the road hole bunker. (His tee shot put the bunker directly in line with the pin, and he landed his approach square in the middle of it.)

[David_Elvins]

I once had the idea (and might have even said it out loud) that flat/contour-less greens tilted back to front were the most strategic of all, and of the purest kind. I don't now remember the background to/thinking behind that idea, but it must've seemed very compelling to me at the time.

Peter,
I dont think you are far off. 
Axis of tilt angled slightly to the line of play and you might even be 100% correct.

[Mike Worth]

Some 20 years ago, I used to play a course with the architect who designed it.  He’s a lifetime friend.


On one particular par 5, which I confess I never really understood despite it being explained to me each of the 8 or so times I played it, I “suggested” adding a hazard near a well-established landing area. The response from my friend was “yeah we could do that or we could just add punji sticks instead.”


So I guess I was the person with the stupid idea.  And the great thing about lifetime friends is that rude things can be said to each other without fear of consequence LOL

[Tim_Weiman]

Jeff Brauer,


Thanks for one of the most entertaining threads on GolfClubAtlas. Hard to even make up some of this stuff.

[Ally Mcintosh]

One of my favourites was not from an individual but from a club….


Having written the blurb for why Westport fell in the Irish rankings, I gave it all positive words but rounded off “but it is the slow start with the opening six holes that sees it fall a few places”. This ranking appeared in the same magazine as an article I’d written about the benefits of removing trees.


Following years ranking, the club wrote to the magazine stating (paraphrasing) that “following Ally McIntosh’s feedback, we have planted trees on the inside of the dogleg on the 2nd hole to add to the strategy and feel”…


The 2nd hole was by far the best of the opening six exactly because of the open ground movement to a lovely sited green, since blocked from view.


Way to misinterpret comments in the name of “strategy”.

[Scott Warren]

This one from a British Open runner-up
''Royal Melbourne would be a much better course is they narrowed the fairways and grew the rough"


Not that we need any more proof, but it's another example of a really good golfer not knowing anything about golf. (He's a friend of mine and I think I've disagreed with just about every opinion he's had on golf courses - for 40 years)

Humpybong?

[Carl Rogers]

Relief for divot.
Bring back the stymie.
Eliminate Stroke and Distance.


Oh. You mean golf architecture.

I like the stymie in Match Play only.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Relief for divot.
Bring back the stymie.
Eliminate Stroke and Distance.


Oh. You mean golf architecture.

I like the stymie in Match Play only.

I don't believe the Stymie was ever permitted in a stroke play event. It was always a match related rule.

[Kyle Harris]

Relief for divot.
Bring back the stymie.
Eliminate Stroke and Distance.


Oh. You mean golf architecture.

I like the stymie in Match Play only.

I don't believe the Stymie was ever permitted in a stroke play event. It was always a match related rule.

The best way to stymie your opponent in Match Play is to hole about in fewer strokes than they did. Nothing they can do after that will win them the hole. The ultimate stymie.

Dumb rule then. Dumber rule now.

[Ben Hollerbach]

The only time I've ever played Stymies in an official capacity was in the World Hickory Match Play Championship. While a bit strange to get use to a first, most players found it a fun addition to the tournament and an exciting proposition to try an execute a shot when one was stymied.


With about 10 minutes of practice it became very possible to effectively execute a stymie chip and a lot of fun to successfully hole the shot during competition.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I never understood the strategy behind the stymie. It is one thing to end up blocking an opponent's shot and another to do it purposely. If you are that good to block another why not just go ahead and make it? What am I missing?

[Jon Sweet]

I never understood the strategy behind the stymie. It is one thing to end up blocking an opponent's shot and another to do it purposely. If you are that good to block another why not just go ahead and make it? What am I missing?

Nothing.

[Jon Sweet]

Heard the head pro of a course tell me trees shouldn’t ever dictate strategy on a hole.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Heard the head pro of a course tell me trees shouldn’t ever dictate strategy on a hole.

Sounds like he was channeling Ross, or some other old Scot who came over early last century to design golf courses.


I had an interesting discussion about trees with RTJII yesterday.  Being from California, although also mentioning a project in Illinois as being difficult to permit, he wonders how long this tree removal fad, started at Oakmont, can remain in place.

[Kyle Harris]

I never understood the strategy behind the stymie. It is one thing to end up blocking an opponent's shot and another to do it purposely. If you are that good to block another why not just go ahead and make it? What am I missing?

Nothing.

And here we all probably thought we’d never agree on anything!

[Kyle Harris]

Heard the head pro of a course tell me trees shouldn’t ever dictate strategy on a hole.

This one isn't all *that* bad because eventually the tree will die. The best holes that do have trees dictating strategy also have some form of back up in terms of creating interest should the trees succumb to their ultimate fate.

The 11th at Huntingdon Valley is a great example.

I felt the 17th at Augusta National was a better hole without the Eisenhower Tree..............

[Sean_A]

Heard the head pro of a course tell me trees shouldn’t ever dictate strategy on a hole.

Depends on the tree.


Ciao

[Sean_A]

I never understood the strategy behind the stymie. It is one thing to end up blocking an opponent's shot and another to do it purposely. If you are that good to block another why not just go ahead and make it? What am I missing?

A stymie is more about luck than anything else. That said, you can plan your putt to have the possibility of styming someone should you miss. I do it a lot when the opponent is on the other side of the hole from me. Play stymies fairly often in winter. It's an added element of fun to remind me that golf is a game.


Ciao

[Kyle Harris]

I never understood the strategy behind the stymie. It is one thing to end up blocking an opponent's shot and another to do it purposely. If you are that good to block another why not just go ahead and make it? What am I missing?

A stymie is more about luck than anything else. That said, you can plan your putt to have the possibility of styming someone should you miss. I do it a lot when the opponent is on the other side of the hole from me. Play stymies fairly often in winter. It's an added element of fun to remind me that golf is a game.


Ciao

Golf is a sport that has games.

[Ben Hollerbach]

I never understood the strategy behind the stymie. It is one thing to end up blocking an opponent's shot and another to do it purposely. If you are that good to block another why not just go ahead and make it? What am I missing?

Playing a Stymie is typically a last ditch defensive strategy. If player A is outside of player B and is laying one more, playing a Stymie can help to salvage a half.


I don't recall every seeing a player who was putting for birdie trying to leave a Stymie as a primary play, it's always the player trying to make a long par or bogey putt that may choose this strategy, or looking at a possible Stymie on a through line of a putt after it passes the hole.


To be effective the ball does not need to sit exactly on another players line, being in the near area of ones line is enough to influence another players execution. So you don't need to be as precise as holing a putt, especially when the putt is out of normal make range.

[Kyle Harris]

Ben Hollerbach,


Thank you for your clear, concise, and thorough explanation for why the stymie is rubbish.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Kyle Harris,


I'm very sorry that you misunderstood what I wrote, I in fact have very much enjoyed playing Stymies and encourage you to try them as well. 


But of course I know you fully understood what I wrote. Your curt and BS attitude on the subject clearly illustrates that you are less than interested in trying something "new" and exploring an interesting and unique part of the game's history. Remember, Stymies were in play a lot longer than they've been out of play.


Sorry someone beat you with a Stymie sometime back in your youth and you've held onto that resentment ever since.

[Brad Lawrence]

Unfortunately, I’ve never gotten to play a match using stymies. It sounds awesome and put me in the stack of people that would support it. 


As far as trees, I can understand the trend of tree removal. Some of these properties look drastically improved in the before and after pictures.  But I do fear we can go overboard because trees can and do ask players to hit certain kinds of shots in ways that no other obstacle can do on a daily basis.  Holes that really ask or force me to hit a certain kind of shot are rare and becoming more rare.  I think courses need more obstacles, not less.

[Ian Mackenzie]

"Hey, wouldnt it be cool if we made a dogleg right hole that forced you to hit a blind tee shot over a hotel?"


"Nah, maybe for a minnie golf course, but that idea would be ridiculed."


 

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