Unesco golf courses?

[John Chilver-Stainer]

If golf courses could be certified as a Unesco Heritage Site which ones would qualify?


Would any of the Championship qualify?


How many top 100 courses qualify?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Think we’ve touched on this before, John…


I’d definitely be in to preserving 30-50 of the best golf courses in this fashion plus a handful of others. Aside from a few of the unique sites / courses in golf, some should be preserved for their excellent architecture and some should be preserved as best (or most reflective) examples of a certain architect’s work.


It starts with TOC.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I can't remember a Unesco Thread?


I think the present version of Hells Bunker and the many recent tinkerings disqualifies TOC as a Unesco Site.


Top of the list at the moment for me would be Prestwick.


What about the Irish courses, how many reflect their original Heritage or have they all been tinkered with?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think all courses have been tinkered with but TOC has probably been “least” touched for the last 120 years and some of it for much longer. So it has to qualify….


https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/golf-backs-st-andrews-unesco-bid


Funnily enough, in Ireland I would nominate The European (it’s Pat’s course and should remain THE example of his work long after he is gone).


I’d include RCD for the beauty of its site and vegetation as much as anything.


Portrush has been significantly changed recently but is a great example of Colt green complexes (although I’d probably pick a Colt heathland or two as HIS examples not to be touched).


Portmarnock has only had window dressing since the 1920’s. I’d be keeping its routing and most of its greens preserved.


Baltray is a great example of Simpson’s work but unsure if it qualifies as HIS best for preservation.


Klondyke and Dell at Lahinch need to be under a preservation order.


Maybe St. Patrick’s as the only genuine Doak example on true links land.


Might pick something from Hackett as well (although I’d probably pick the course where I’ve made a few changes so that is just a little hypocritical!)

[Marty Bonnar]

Fairly sure we’ve chatted this over before. As an example, TOC - and indeed the entirety of the area of St Andrews Links - is/are a designated area of ‘Designed Landscape’ by Historic Environment Scotland:
http://portal.historicenvironment.scot/designation/GDL00344
It’s possible to lobby for designation of any landscape area, so it just needs a desire to do so and some back-up evidence that it would be a worthwhile exercise. It does afford some level of protection and the need for proper consultation if any ‘development’ is proposed.
Cheers,
F.

[Tom_Doak]

The Links Trust carefully kept The Old Course out of the UNESCO designation for St Andrew’s, so that Mr Dawson could complete his tinkering.  Ultimately, I think most famous courses have the same fear of losing control of their ability to make changes “as necessary”.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Thanks for the lowdown on the Irish Courses.


The idea of a Preservation Order for a golf course has possibly more legal value than the loose wording of the UNESCO.


It appears the "Royal and Ancient" have shown no interest in preserving their golf heritage, in fact maybe they should drop the the word "Ancient" from their name. How about the "Royal and adapting to modern playing standards" PLC.


If there was a Preservation Order presumably it would be issued by the judicial System with the necesary penaltys.
However apart from the "stick" what kind of "carrot" would encourage golf courses to welcome a preservation order.
Maybe special dispensations and grants from the leading Golf Authorities and cultural funds.


In the US more so than the UK, the value of golf heritage through Restoration appears to have a value.


How do the US view their true Restorations? Is a Restoration a statement of implied Preservation?


Does the membership in the Donald Ross Society or the James Braid Society have any influence on the golf clubs to stop modernising?










 

[Niall C]

Thanks for the lowdown on the Irish Courses.


The idea of a Preservation Order for a golf course has possibly more legal value than the loose wording of the UNESCO.


It appears the "Royal and Ancient" have shown no interest in preserving their golf heritage, in fact maybe they should drop the the word "Ancient" from their name. How about the "Royal and adapting to modern playing standards" PLC.


If there was a Preservation Order presumably it would be issued by the judicial System with the necesary penaltys.
However apart from the "stick" what kind of "carrot" would encourage golf courses to welcome a preservation order.
Maybe special dispensations and grants from the leading Golf Authorities and cultural funds.


In the US more so than the UK, the value of golf heritage through Restoration appears to have a value.


How do the US view their true Restorations? Is a Restoration a statement of implied Preservation?


Does the membership in the Donald Ross Society or the James Braid Society have any influence on the golf clubs to stop modernising?

John


Your idea is an interesting one and I think a discussion on what the criteria is for inclusion would be more interesting than folk randomly naming courses. Then you could have discussion on what makes Unesco qualified to sit in judgement.


As for the R&A and the old course, the course has evolved over the centuries, just like the majority of old courses. Whatever date you wish to turn the clock back to, you can probably give the R&A credit for largely being responsible for what it was a like at that point. 


Niall