Perspectives from a Sand Valley First Timer

[James Brown]

Just returned from 3 days and 4 nights at Sand Valley.  First time there.  Wasn’t really sure what to expect, having been to Bandon several times, Cabot once, and Streamsong many times, all of which I consider comparable golf destinations. 


Boy, did the Sand Valley property impress me as a golf destination.


Architecturally, the courses were way more interesting, balanced, and subtle than I expected.  I played 36 each day and each course 3 times.  Got rained out from playing Sandbox. 


[size=78%]First thing that struck me was the pinnable surface on the greens on both courses.   Massive, massive greens with an amazing amount of pinnable surface.  In three days, the variation in pins was incredible, which really added to the experience of seeing almost every hole differently in each play.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]The tie-ins at Sand Valley were the best I have seen on a modern course, with so much detail put into the scattered grasses that overlaid the bunkers and the edging into the background.  [/size]
[/size]
[/size]So much has been written about the width of both, but especially of Mammoth Dunes.  I didn’t think either course was overly wide, given the bunkering and the design of the greens.  I kept thinking that the holes would look like with 20-30 yards of rough on each side and then realizing the playing corridors were about the same size at many other courses, just without rough.  And I would say the brutality of the fairway bunkers compensates the difficulty, especially since there are so many tempting lines.[size=78%]

[/size]At Mammoth I literally hit every club one round from driving 14 to hitting a 3 wood into 9 after a weak [size=78%][/size]hook off the tee.  Nearly the same at SV.
[/size]
[/size]I found the back nines at [/size]both courses thrilling.

[/size]The 17th at SV is fun but essentially unfair because junk and great shots don’t differentiate at all.  Fine for one hole. 

[/size]I guess 14 at MD is the most “controversial” hole on that course because they moved so much earth, but found it really fun. 

[/size]Would divide 10 plays 5/5.

[/size]The conditioning was really, really good.  Firm and fast for sure and lots of ground options.  I don’t know if it was the warm summer weather or a different strain of fescue, but the greens were bone hard, while fairways were very firm and running, yet soft enough to take very large divots, which I had never seen before in fescue, which I s a contrast to summer Bandon conditions where the turn was just hard every where. 

[/size]Aesthetically, I found the whole property exceeded my expectations.  Great long views and great scale.

[/size]And I got weather than ranged from 90 to 61 for highs in 3 days.

[/size]And I played Whistling Straits and Lawsonia on the same trip. 

[/size]I would venture that 10 years from now, Sand Valley will have at least 4 courses and will be on the road to the pinnacle of a Wisconsin golf trail.  Can’t wait to return. 

[David Ober]

My son, Jeff, was there with you at the same time, I believe.

[Ronald Montesano]

What I want to know is, how did you (James Brown, king of soul) input your initial post? I'm looking at all those size cues and I wonder what devil's work is at play here!!!

[James Brown]

What I want to know is, how did you (James Brown, king of soul) input your initial post? I'm looking at all those size cues and I wonder what devil's work is at play here!!!

Ironic, right, since I was talking about scale??

[Jason Thurman]

I played a 36 hole day there last fall and just enjoyed the hell out of it. Buddied Up with a group from the Twin Cities on Mammoth Dunes in the morning before catching our own Morgan Clawson for the afternoon on Sand Valley.


The morning weather was perfect, I was playing well, and I had a great lunch overlooking the course afterward. The afternoon round turned drizzly and the legs were tired and it felt more like a grind. Plus that stupid 17th hole... I birdied it but still came away less than enamored.


So, I left thinking I probably preferred Mammoth Dunes, but it's now nearly a year later and the taste of Mammoth that remains in my mouth is a bit of a cloying one. It just felt too accommodating, while those drizzly holes at Sand Valley remain fresh and prominent in my mind even if I felt like I was more focused on just getting through them than really drinking them in. I just thought the shots were more interesting, more consistently. I'd like to return many times and see if my preferences continue to change.


James, how do you compare the courses with Lawsonia and Whistling Straits? Wisconsin probably has six legitimate contenders for Top Public Course. I know which one I'd choose...

[James Brown]

I played a 36 hole day there last fall and just enjoyed the hell out of it. Buddied Up with a group from the Twin Cities on Mammoth Dunes in the morning before catching our own Morgan Clawson for the afternoon on Sand Valley.


The morning weather was perfect, I was playing well, and I had a great lunch overlooking the course afterward. The afternoon round turned drizzly and the legs were tired and it felt more like a grind. Plus that stupid 17th hole... I birdied it but still came away less than enamored.


So, I left thinking I probably preferred Mammoth Dunes, but it's now nearly a year later and the taste of Mammoth that remains in my mouth is a bit of a cloying one. It just felt too accommodating, while those drizzly holes at Sand Valley remain fresh and prominent in my mind even if I felt like I was more focused on just getting through them than really drinking them in. I just thought the shots were more interesting, more consistently. I'd like to return many times and see if my preferences continue to change.


James, how do you compare the courses with Lawsonia and Whistling Straits? Wisconsin probably has six legitimate contenders for Top Public Course. I know which one I'd choose...

Whistling Straits struck me as a great test of golf for the pros, but not that much more, which is what was intended by Dye and Kohler from what I have read.  It was a 5 and a half hour round for one thing.  Conditioning was great and the course was interesting, but I really don’t have much interest in playing it again.  One thing I didn’t expect though was a cool breeze off the lake, which was pretty nice in 90 degree weather.


Lawsonia was a really interesting track.  I really appreciated the use of the veiled bunkering, making you guess on lines on a first play.  But a second play would be able to eliminate that x-factor almost entirely.  The scale of the place was really interesting.  All of the holes were “big” and I kind of found myself wanting some contrast in the scale department. The greens were really good.  I played tees right around 6550 yards on all four courses and found Lawsonia the most straight forward ball striking test. 

I think I had roughly the same relative impressions of SV and MD.  I was on site for three 36 hole days and found It [/size][size=78%]really cool.  It was also pretty much the vibe I [/size][/size][size=78%]expected, to see guys talking to anyone that would listen about their best ever scores on MD.  I shot 4-under for my final nine holes at MD and had that exact same experience.[/size]


But SV had me thinking about how to play the holes afterward, especially on the back nine.  That course really got me thinking.  And the landscape setting was like nothing I have seen.  Is it prairie?  Is it Heath?  What do we call that land on the back nine?


My eight rounds in Wisconsin were:


Whistling Straits: 1
Lawsonia: 1
Mammoth: 2.5 (9 hole rain out)
Sand Valley:3


And I think that ended up being about the right ratio for me amongst those four.  Maybe one more play on Lawsonia.


Got several recommendations to play Pine Hills.  And several people said they played Erin Hills, but they didn’t say much more than what a long walk it was. 

[Charles Lund]

In 2011, I traveled to Wisconsin and played the four Kohler courses, The Bull at Pinehurst Farms, and Erin Hills.  I didn't really think about returning to Wisconsin until the past couple of years, due to the opening of a second course at Sand Valley.


In late May, I spent three nights at Sand Valley, playing five rounds in four days, three on Sand Valley and two on Mammoth Dunes.  The appeal of Sand Valley Resort for me is the two courses have a different look and feel and both provided lots of enjoyment.  I'm generally straight off the tee and found myself using the full range of clubs in my bag.  The fact that I made as many as three birdies in a round and birdied holes in each round contributed to positive feelings about the courses.


I've played about a half dozen David McLay Kidd courses and about the same number of Coore and Crenshaw courses.  I have played several of the courses multiple times and would happily play any of them again if in the area.  The areas include the West Coast, Arizona, North Carolina, Idaho, Wisconsin, and Tasmania.


So that should speak to how I would compare Sand Valley to the Kohler courses.


I was scheduled to play two rounds at Lawsonia.  On the morning of the first day, a brutally cold wind and rain made the experience difficult to endure.  The forecast for the next day was more of the same.  So I cannot comment on Lawsonia but would be curious enough to try it again, if I were within a couple of hours.


Charles Lund

[James Brown]

Does anyone know the timeline for the opening of Lido?  Been interested in that topic since I did an internship at Brookhaven National Lab in the Fall of 2000 and found a copy of “Missing Links” at a Barnes and Noble on Long Island and then sought out the old Lido site.  Still remember how you could see the twin towers there from the “new” Lido course. 

[Tom_Doak]

Does anyone know the timeline for the opening of Lido?

We will plant 12 or 14 holes this summer and the rest next spring.  Official opening is not until spring 2023 but most holes should be playable by next summer.  The question is whether “preview play” will be restricted to members or available to some resort guests.

[James Brown]

Thank you.  My caddie told me that the 4th course, Sedge Valley (?) was on hold pending some state money and also a lodging expansion.  I am always curious about the chicken and egg nature of expanding these kind of properties.  A four course rotation would change the equation for Sand Valley quite a lot in my estimation.