Renaissance Club routing for Scottish Open

[Scott Warren]

Can anyone help me with a matchup between how the holes I played as 1-18 (I guess 4-18) in 2010 correspond to the hole numbers this week?

[Tim Leahy]

Ok, TD tell us about this course! What holes are your favorites? What do you expect from the pros? When did you last visit the course and what tweeks have you made?
 
If this info is on another thread please bump it.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Scott,


The hole order is given here as well as some descriptions of recent changes to some holes:
https://www.europeantour.com/european-tour/abrdn-scottish-open-2021/course

They've obviously made a mistake with the 8th and 11th fly-overs.

[Thomas Dai]

Live coverage on YouTube via the European Tour -
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWjakFz_g
Enjoy.
Atb


Not sure which holes these at RGC are. Were the bunkers once ‘within’ the fairways?

[David_Tepper]

Course routing here:

https://www.europeantour.com/european-tour/abrdn-scottish-open-2021/course

[Tom_Doak]

Tim:


I was there 2 1/2 weeks ago, looking at possible changes to the course pending a longer-term agreement to host the event.    The course was dry and bouncy then, but it has rained a good bit in the last week, so this is the third year in a row the pros are seeing the course play soft and easy, unfortunately.

We had a few tweaks to the course on tap last year, but when the event was pushed back due to the pandemic, it didn't leave any time to make changes and get the turf back to 100% for this year's event.


They have a hell of a field this year, and if the wind doesn't pick up, they'll shoot lights out.




Scott:


Here is the tournament order, the hole # for the members, and the hole # from the original routing before the holes were added on the point:


1st = member 1st = orig 4th
2nd = 2nd = 5th
3rd = 3rd = 6th
4th = 4th = 7th
5th = 5th = 8th
6th = 6th = 9th [the little par 3 by the clubhouse]
7th = 16th = orig 16th, but lengthened to a par-5
8th = 14th = orig 15th
9th = 15th = new par-3 added behind the old 15th


10th = 7th = orig 10th
11th = 8th = 11th
12th = 9th = new hole on point
13th = 10th = new hole on point
14th = 11th = new hole on point
15th = 12th = new par-4 played to green of old par-3 13th
16th = 13th = orig 14th
17th = 17th = 17th
18th = 18th = 18th


I don't know why anyone would find this confusing  /s


The reasoning for all these machinations is to get two loops of nine holes starting at the clubhouse, with neither loop starting on a par-3.  They also play the 6th hole before the little loop from the back nine, even though it's a worse walk, because they don't want to play the members' 15th and 6th as back to back par-3's.

[Marty Bonnar]

Course looking terrific on the tellybox. Forecast looking good for low scores too - maybe a wee splash of rain, but nae wind, nae gowf! 
F.

[Scott Warren]

Thanks very much, Tom. Appreciate it.

[jeffwarne]

Scott:


Here is the tournament order, the hole # for the members, and the hole # from the original routing before the holes were added on the point:


1st = member 1st = orig 4th
2nd = 2nd = 5th
3rd = 3rd = 6th
4th = 4th = 7th
5th = 5th = 8th
6th = 6th = 9th [the little par 3 by the clubhouse]
7th = 16th = orig 16th, but lengthened to a par-5
8th = 14th = orig 15th
9th = 15th = new par-3 added behind the old 15th


10th = 7th = orig 10th
11th = 8th = 11th
12th = 9th = new hole on point
13th = 10th = new hole on point
14th = 11th = new hole on point
15th = 12th = new par-4 played to green of old par-3 13th
16th = 13th = orig 14th
17th = 17th = 17th
18th = 18th = 18th

Tom, can you rate the routing on a scale of 1-10, vs. the routing you designed the holes to be played in.
In terms or walkability, flow, rhythm, balance or whatever criteria you prefer.
Using the new holes on the point.

[Tom_Doak]

The walkability is much worse, with added long transitions after holes 6, 7, 9, and 16 in the tournament routing.  We discussed the idea of adopting the tournament routing for member play so we could stop the confusion, but then I went out and walked it once, and nixed that idea.


The Tour players are professional athletes so the extra walk is no big deal, and they don’t really care much about “flow” as we define it here (though some might lose focus after #6).  But it’s a much longer walk.

[jeffwarne]

The walkability is much worse, with added long transitions after holes 6, 7, 9, and 16 in the tournament routing.  We discussed the idea of adopting the tournament routing for member play so we could stop the confusion, but then I went out and walked it once, and nixed that idea.


The Tour players are professional athletes so the extra walk is no big deal, and they don’t really care much about “flow” as we define it here (though some might lose focus after #6).  But it’s a much longer walk.

do they have a two tee start  for the Scottish Open?

[Tom_Doak]

do they have a two tee start  for the Scottish Open?

Yes, that’s the only reason for all of this.  It’s a big field.  I suppose the days are long enough they could make a one tee start work in July, but the players don’t like those 6:30am or 5:00pm starts - and neither does the maintenance staff 

[Bill Brightly]

The course looks great on TV and I really hope I get to play it on my scheduled trip this September. One thing that struck me as I watched: the course looks like it has been on the ground for over a hundred years, just like its neighbors.


TD, is that the first course where you built revetted bunkers? Did you build that with a "new" crew, or one you had worked with before?

[Peter Pallotta]

As Bill says, it really is a pleasure to watch -- both visually (for its naturalistic aesthetic) and architecturally, ie even from 5000 miles away, I can see how the design plays and how it could be played and how it might play in the wind or when very dry & firm. Lovely work indeed

[David Jones]

Just back from a lovely day in the sun watching the golf at The Renaissance.


Despite the recent rain the course was playing a bit more fiery than the last couple of years and it definitely felt like a day watching links golf rather than just golf by the coast.


Because of the reduced capacity we were able to hear a lot of player/caddie discussions and they were having to plot their way around more than they will most weeks. I overheard Rahm on the 16th talking about how one part of the rough was incredibly tough whereas just a yard away you’d able to get to the ball no problem. Lovely to hear!!


The routing was pretty good as a walking spectator apart from some congestion around the clubhouse after the 5th.


It’s a shame that we still haven’t had a breezy outing with really firm ground but I suspect the event will be back here soon enough. Let it blow!!

[Thomas Dai]

There was an interesting/ironic/amusing short interview etc with Padraig Harrington on this afternoons Sky TV coverage.
He was asked about (my words) helping Tom Doak with changes to the course over the next couple of years and commented about the need for more contouring around the perimeter of the greens and more bunkering on the open sides of some of the fairways.
This was immediately followed by live coverage of Jon Rahm (and Thomas Detry) attempting to play shots from rear left of the 16th green over a contoured closely mown mound to a tight pin.
Andrew Coltart was commentating and made a deliciously naughty wee comment about Harringtons suggestions.
I've tried to find a clip but haven't been able too. If someone else finds it perhaps they'd post a link.
atb


PS - TV coverage doesn't usually show terrain and contour particularly well but this screenshot from the TV coverage highlights the land movement at one part of the course. JR used a wedge for his tee shot.

[Marty Bonnar]

Dai,
I’m sure TD could tell us exactly how much elevation change there is over the site. Your pic is certainly from the area of land where the majority is. In general the holes on the landward side of the clubhouse are on fairly level or gently rolling terrain, with the seaward holes draped over the more rumpled and hilly terrain. It’s a very nice walk on a cracking site!
Cheers,
F.


PS All that duneland to the top of your pic is the land which is owned, I think, by Muirfield and which would make for another fabulous Course!

[Tom_Doak]

It’s been a while since I looked at the topo map, but my memory is that the highest point of the course (15g / 16t of tournament routing) is 29m above sea level, and the lowest point (10f) about 15m.  That 14th hole is about 20 feet downhill, and the much longer 16th is 35-40 feet downhill.


As Marty says, the first few holes plus 16-17-18 are pretty level, and there is a bit more up and down as you move out closer to the water.  The difficulty with Harrington’s suggestion for more undulations around the greens is that there is not a lot of slope to work with.

[Kalen Braley]

Bonnar, according to Google Earth it looks like most of the course sits at an approx. elevation of 90 to 125 feet above sea level.


And the one hole closest to the water is anywhere from 55 to 70ish feet.

[David Jones]

Here’s a Tweet the European Tour have put out with Jerry Savardi and Harrington talking about future changes.


A warning though, Harrington drops the F word.


https://twitter.com/europeantour/status/1414132351832047617?s=21

[Clyde Johnson]

Here’s a Tweet the European Tour have put out with Jerry Savardi and Harrington talking about future changes.


A warning though, Harrington drops the F word.


https://twitter.com/europeantour/status/1414132351832047617?s=21

In fairness, the F word didn't come up once during the walk around on Tuesday!

[David Jones]

Here’s a Tweet the European Tour have put out with Jerry Savardi and Harrington talking about future changes.


A warning though, Harrington drops the F word.


https://twitter.com/europeantour/status/1414132351832047617?s=21

In fairness, the F word didn't come up once during the walk around on Tuesday!

 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sometimes I wonder whether this group is a little hard on the word “fair” to the extent they want “unfair”.


Really when the word is used by pro’s, I’d like to think they mean predictability, in that if they hit a ball exactly to an area, they’ll have a good idea how it will react. This doesn’t preclude ground game, speed bumps, ramps, hollows and mounds. In fact, it often means they will get used more.


That said, they do tend to want to take that to the n’th degree, eliminating all blindness and having no unpredictability whatsoever, even on their drives… so there’s definitely a middle ground.

[Niall C]

Ally


I think you might be being a tad generous in your comments on professionals and their idea of fairness. As for Harrington, it all sounded rather vague. I'd be interested to hear what specific suggestions he made and whether they take any heed of those suggestions.


Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Short grass around the greens, open aspect, firm conditions, iffy lies in variable thickness rough, walls, humps, hollows, false fronts, bunkers, run-offs, slopes and cunningly contoured greens. Wonderful! A decent wind would be nice.
FYI from 83 yds this Major winner missed the green short-right.

atb