News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rees Jones Bunkering
« on: June 20, 2021, 05:07:53 PM »
As I posted in the Torrey Pines thread, the course seems better than much of the commentary states. But I also noted that the bunkering looks horrendous. I loved playing Cog Hill 4 which is another public course that aspired to host a US Open. I have not played it since the Jones work, but it seems as if the bunkering changes doomed whatever chances it might have had.


Am I missing something or are his bunkers better than I realize?


Ira

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2021, 05:36:55 PM »
Ira,. I really like the way TPS is showing, but these bunkers are atrocious...  this style has got to go and never come back
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2021, 06:02:14 PM »
They are as stylish as my 1976 orange, yellow, and red plaid bell-bottoms. 
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2021, 06:06:24 PM »
They are as stylish as my 1976 orange, yellow, and red plaid bell-bottoms.


I have to reconsider my view given that Miller wore those pants when he shot the 63 at Oakmont.


Ira

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2021, 06:17:02 PM »
They are as stylish as my 1976 orange, yellow, and red plaid bell-bottoms.


Interesting analogy, Mike. At the time, post-Vietnam, you and many other young people dressed like that, had really long hair, etc. and thought you looked very cool. There is a lot of history behind that, even though we are completely embarrassed when our kids see those photos...


So too with the uniform geometric shapes of the bunkering at Torrey Pines. That style holds a significant place is the history of gca. It is easy to criticize it now that our tastes have advanced but I think the trickier question is how did that style come to be the one favored by the USGA and many club leaders?

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2021, 07:17:00 PM »
Some please enlighten a non-bunker guy. What’s wrong with them?
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2021, 07:27:51 PM »
Some please enlighten a non-bunker guy. What’s wrong with them?


When you post pictures of them on instagram your followers think you are in Alabama.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2021, 10:28:06 PM »
Some please enlighten a non-bunker guy. What’s wrong with them?


This is probably true for any US Open setup, but the fact that the bunkers are an easier recovery than being on grass is what’s wrong with them. Maybe limit bunker placement to being only in areas the green falls away from the bunker shot, and see if the pros aim for them then.
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2021, 03:02:11 AM »
Some please enlighten a non-bunker guy. What’s wrong with them?


This is probably true for any US Open setup, but the fact that the bunkers are an easier recovery than being on grass is what’s wrong with them. Maybe limit bunker placement to being only in areas the green falls away from the bunker shot, and see if the pros aim for them then.

The best bunkering is usually that which gives way to slopes and contours.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2021, 06:06:52 AM »
They are as stylish as my 1976 orange, yellow, and red plaid bell-bottoms.


Given the pants being worn today, is there a chance the bunkers so in fashion today might be frowned upon in 20 years?
Fads and groupthink are a funny thing...;)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 07:02:51 AM »
They are as stylish as my 1976 orange, yellow, and red plaid bell-bottoms.


Given the pants being worn today, is there a chance the bunkers so in fashion today might be frowned upon in 20 years?
Fads and groupthink are a funny thing... ;)

Well, drain pipes were fashionable a decade before bells. Does this mean bells will be back in style in the next few years?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2021, 07:21:59 AM »
They are as stylish as my 1976 orange, yellow, and red plaid bell-bottoms.


Given the pants being worn today, is there a chance the bunkers so in fashion today might be frowned upon in 20 years?
Fads and groupthink are a funny thing... ;)


Wrong guy to ask.
I resisted pleats for years,now I'm the only guy still wearing 'em.
I'm sure many get a chuckle from them, but not nearly the chuckle I get when I see the tight costumes worn on the PGA tour
 these days.
Sure enough we'll see clothes that actually fit make a comeback at some point.

Well, drain pipes were fashionable a decade before bells. Does this mean bells will be back in style in the next few years?

Ciao
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2021, 07:32:41 AM »
The passion of some reactions to bunker shapes fascinates me. I certainly have my own general preferences but when I step on a golf course, I tend to accept the shaping of the bunkers as an affirmative creative decision by the architect - a comment on his or her aesthetic tastes, not my own. As the golfer, I am certainly entitled to an off-hand opinion about how they look, but my main job is to navigate around them both physically and mentally. That's why to me, where bunkers are placed is ultimately more important than how they look (especially since how they look can change over time or with the trends of the day).


Is every manufactured golf course vista supposed to please the golfer's eye? Isn't there a case to be made that occasionally unsettling the golfer visually is a legitimate way to defend a golf hole? That's a big part of what makes Pete Dye's best work so special, IMO.


Again, neither defending nor attacking Torrey Pines' bunkering (I would bet it will look different the next time it hosts the U.S. Open, which I would virtually guarantee in light of yesterday's showing, anyway); just trying to understand where the emphasis balance is between look and placement of bunkers.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2021, 08:35:57 AM »
Tim,

I don't know if any one's passion is all that fascinating, but this is a golf arch. board filled with people of experience and interest and a great US Open was just held on a top course with a shit bunkering style. I feel both comfortable and justified in saying they are shit, but dispassionate as well.

I'm talking about their physical construction, their size, their in/egress, their fingers and pockets and the grass shaped and grown around their margins.... and yes they look like shit too, and there's too many of them...and they are an expensive bitch to maintain in comparison to other styles.

Their style IS "ubiquity" and thus, no one bunker lingers in the mind or presents itself with distinction in the course of play. And their artifice interferes with the fair run of the ball...shots stay on downslopes or hang in the grass of same...their steepest spots are often on their back walls, furthest away from green.


Lastly, of course I accept it when I'm there playing or watching it (like we do with an updated credit card terms or your mail server privacy policies)...and yes, you're right again that it is an aesthetic expression to which the designer has been entitled, but I don't have to like it or appreciate it or give it its due. 



« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 08:47:40 AM by V. Kmetz »
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2021, 08:55:43 AM »
VK, I completely agree. The only thing I would add is that I probably would not be too keen on them (especially the number and placement of the fairway bunkers) on a Parkland course, the aesthetic is particularly off putting on a course overlooking the Ocean.


Ira

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2021, 09:01:53 AM »
The original bunkers built by Rees had near vertical turf walls in the 3-4’ range with a flat sand base. They were very difficult to get out of as you were usually 4-5’ below the surface of the green you were playing to. All bunkers were redone 2 years ago with new liners installed. Now the sand is flashed up to the lip which is on the 1-2’ range. They are much easier to get out of and I’m sure they are also easier to maintain. I suspect they will stay this way at least until the next US Open comes around!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2021, 09:18:09 AM »
The original bunkers built by Rees had near vertical turf walls in the 3-4’ range with a flat sand base. They were very difficult to get out of as you were usually 4-5’ below the surface of the green you were playing to. All bunkers were redone 2 years ago with new liners installed. Now the sand is flashed up to the lip which is on the 1-2’ range. They are much easier to get out of and I’m sure they are also easier to maintain. I suspect they will stay this way at least until the next US Open comes around!


I haven't been in there so long, that I cannot tell the differences in Rees' orig to now to when I played but I experience this style every weekend for the last 20 years at the course I've most frequently caddied (not mentioning the designer of this horrible work) and it is the worst... while I could tell that the fairway bunkers have been a bit more normalized, the greenside bunkers are still largely crap, even if lowered from felony, to misdemeanor heights...


VK, I completely agree. The only thing I would add is that I probably would not be too keen on them (especially the number and placement of the fairway bunkers) on a Parkland course, the aesthetic is particularly off putting on a course overlooking the Ocean.

Ira


Ira, the course I'm referencing above IS a parkland course and yes, they are terrible in that setting too... these bunkers "belong" nowhere except, perhaps, as an occasional single ornamental bunker...largely out of play...just for a peripheral or framing or distant aiming line...on a handful of spots on a property... like the... (er) "Mackenzie" bunker on 10 at ANGC..or as a sole monumental hazard, like the beautiful behemoth on #4 at Riviera.
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2021, 10:28:56 AM »
People have been complaining about Rees bunkers since I have been on here, and that's been over 20 years now.  I get it, especially now that styles have changed.


For some perspective, my take on the dislike is simple.....Rees bunkers are often, 1) too large, and 2) have too much size for their shape. 


While you can make the case that on an open site like TP, large bunkers fit in against the open skies better than on a fully wooded course where dense trees provide a smaller space.  That said, I have studied bunkers of all types for years. 


It just seems to me that larger bunkers need a lot more shape and variety of shape than those at TP to be truly attractive.  Look at Mac's bunker at 10 ANGC.  It is a masterpiece of every turf and sand lobe being at and of a different size and angle.  Sometimes, when being built with big dozers, there is a real tendency from the size of the machine to even all those out to about the width of a dozer blade. 


In regard to greenside bunkers, typically (with exceptions) I find that when bunkers are further outside the green than it's width, they dominate the scene.   As in, a green 60 feet wide probably should have the outside edges of bunkers on either side no more than 60 feet away from the green surface.  I also find that the turf "noses" should usually be less than 25 foot from the green edge.  While obviously personal opinion, I think some deep thinker or another, who has studied art composition, could probably craft a scientific argument as to why that is true, LOL.  At TP, many of those bunkers are large enough to become visually disassociated from the putting surface.  I think Rees and Bobby both got their idea on "scale" from their father, and rarely deviated from that style.  Understandable, they were mentored by one of the greats, and how much were they going to question their basic style?


As to shape, the first time I read the phrase "Rees pieces" was here, and I think it came from Tommy N.  Derogatory, yes, but full points for being clever.  When a bunker is round, it needs to be smaller than he typically built them.  I think the idea came back from Scotland, either via Pete Dye, or the ASGCA trip to Scotland in 1980.  Or, earlier, the Robert Bruce Harris oval or clamshell bunkers, which never looked good.  Many ASGCA members brought back the idea of pot bunkers, but then enlarged them to accommodate modern maintenance, or maybe the then scale of American golf courses.  Round bunkers also generally look better when clustered with a few cousins......but, when Rees tried that with his (IMHO) oversized round bunkers, a clever moniker was born, LOL.


Most of his bunkers at TP are more shapely, but I think the corners, capes, and bays were tuned to the radius of a bank mower (or sand pro) for ease of maintenance, which is not uncommon on public courses.  Bunker rakes turn in a diameter of about 16-18 feet now (used to be 20+ feet) and bank mowers are still stuck around 25 foot diameters, near as I can tell, but I think a few can mow tighter.  Using those dimensions (and exceeding them) tends to soften out the shapes and make bunkers bigger. 


But, there are times when that IS the most logical way to design a bunker that fits all needs of a public course.  Whether it is for a US Open venue is another story.


There is perhaps also the question of what the USGA thinks of shaggy bunker edges that are popular now?  (Although, they didn't have a lot of trouble with his brother's Chambers Bay) Ress has had many opportunities to discuss the USGA philosophy on how bunkers ought to present and play in their major championship, and we have to think it is USGA directed to some degree. 


Certainly, competitors probably hate the idea of missing by 5 feet and being in the long grass, or missing by 8-10 feet and being stuck in some craggy and unplayable edge, when missing by 15 puts you in the relatively easy bottom of a sand bunker.  Add in the longstanding USGA requirement for narrow fw and flanking bunkers (which actually worked pretty well, with many of them coming into play, especially on the canyon holes, where they were the safety outlet.  A separate point, but I wonder how Rory felt about being up against the back lip of a bunker and shanking it?  Yes, rub of the green, or sand, but I have heard lots of discussion from players over the years about any situation where they "have no shot" from a bunker, usually when playing from a downhill lie, and especially when up against a back edge.


Anyway, short version, they don't have enough shape to please the eye for their size.  Or, in layman's terms, they are a bit, shall we say, "blah". :)


But, visuals aren't the only consideration, although, in the TV age, I think the probably should be, LOL.  I have heard stories of the TPC course directing green backing bunkers (like those Pete Dye wraparounds) so they look good from the cameras behind the green.  In one case, they directed a waterfall be built facing away from golfers but facing towards likely TV tower locations, etc.




Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2021, 12:39:31 PM »
I think that's an apt and sober take on all of it... I just contend that THIS big bunker style was not learned from the RTJSr... they may be in size, but I prefer Sr's large ovals and his continuous scalloped lines better than what the boys have inured us to. I also want to amplify that the can work, visually and practically on certain portions of a property (like the protected "Schlossadler" nest of the that attractive 13th approach...


Your conscious proportions...20 yards off outer edges and 8 yards off the noses seems a good formula...at the course I was referencing in a previous post, the outer edges go as many as 48 yards from the green center and over 30 from the nearest edge...all they do is intimidate, capture and incarcerate the average to high hcp player....and you're right again, the beauty and the strategy of the greens are easily lost.


To continue on the size and position of fairway bunkers (TP's largest blemish imo)... again, the regular, average player who drives into these from his or her tee is far more penalized and obstacled than the US Open player, for whom the USGA rough is a more severe and capricious penalty... I count 36 fairway bunkers on the 14 driving holes...only 2 (on #9) are second shot/long hole bunkers and only one driving hole lacks them (#15)...so its really 33 per 13 drives...with canyons left and right and the remaining trees, that's way too many
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2021, 12:56:15 PM »
vk,


Regarding the fw bunkers, my take was that due to increased length, they chose to merely extend the fw bunkers that were there, rather than rebuild in full.  While the look may not be great, I have also come to the conclusion that extended fw bunkers are necessary to make many holes play as the bunkers strategically were meant to make them play.  The range of carry and tee shots, especially when considering everyday players is huge these days, and the only way to make fw bunkers relevant to all is to extend them lengthwise or build clusters along the fw where the topo allows all to be visible.


As to green bunkers, I often say that about Maxwell courses, as so often the visual focus is the bunkers, not the green itself.  Of course, for 1980's courses, where bunkering led to photos which led to awards, I can see how that happened.  I was never sure what Perry and especially Press (who doesn't seem as talented as his father) were thinking.  I agree that most gca's think about the long bunker shot being hard for average players, and generally try to avoid it.  Also to be considered on courses where place of play is an issue (and where isn't that an issue?) is the time it takes players to rake their way out of a large sand bunker.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Brad Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2021, 01:10:14 PM »
I’ve always believed the least important function of a bunker is to penalize. I believe they exist to direct and misdirect, to frame and add visual interest. A course can have wonderful  shot values but the look of the bunkers can be the difference in a course that elicits a wow or a yawn.


There’s another problem, as I see it, at TP.  Nine of the fourteen driving holes have fairway bunkers on both sides of the fairway.  About thirteen of the eighteen greens have bunkers on both sides.  I don’t think it’s very interesting to penalize both misses in the same way.    There’s something comforting to me about being forced to hit a ball between two equally bad results but the player is forced to face some serious questions internally during the downswing when given a bail out, especially when that bail out provides a different but also penal result.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2021, 01:17:31 PM »
Jeff--


That note about bunker breadth relative to green width is really interesting. On Rees Jones holes I've played like 14 at LPGA International or 13 at Reynolds (Oconee), bunkers abutting the greens are so far out of the scale you mention that I have to believe it was a conscious choice. Those bunkers have the visual effect of dwarfing otherwise not-small par-3 greens such that it's an exercise in visual intimidation. It certainly also adds maintenance time, so there's definitely a debate to be had over whether it's in line with the more sustainability-focused era of architecture to come.


But this brings me back to one question I asked: is unsettling the golfer - in this case, by purposefully laying bunkers out of normal scale with a green - a legitimate tactic by an architect? I personally think so, but I also think it's possible to overdo it and I can accept the argument that some or even many Rees Jones courses lean quite hard on that tactic, perhaps to their own detriment.


In the case of Torrey Pines, I would almost argue for filling in several (most? all?) of the fairway bunkers and just making them grass hollows, in the understanding that they don't really play the way they should because of how easily pros can escape from normal fwy bunker lies. I wonder if Rees and his team might even be on board with it; some renovations they've been involved in of late seem to include reducing sand square footage significantly.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2021, 03:25:53 PM »
People have been complaining about Rees bunkers since I have been on here, and that's been over 20 years now.  I get it, especially now that styles have changed.


For some perspective, my take on the dislike is simple.....Rees bunkers are often, 1) too large, and 2) have too much size for their shape. 


While you can make the case that on an open site like TP, large bunkers fit in against the open skies better than on a fully wooded course where dense trees provide a smaller space.  That said, I have studied bunkers of all types for years. 


It just seems to me that larger bunkers need a lot more shape and variety of shape than those at TP to be truly attractive.  Look at Mac's bunker at 10 ANGC.  It is a masterpiece of every turf and sand lobe being at and of a different size and angle.  Sometimes, when being built with big dozers, there is a real tendency from the size of the machine to even all those out to about the width of a dozer blade. 


In regard to greenside bunkers, typically (with exceptions) I find that when bunkers are further outside the green than it's width, they dominate the scene.   As in, a green 60 feet wide probably should have the outside edges of bunkers on either side no more than 60 feet away from the green surface.  I also find that the turf "noses" should usually be less than 25 foot from the green edge.  While obviously personal opinion, I think some deep thinker or another, who has studied art composition, could probably craft a scientific argument as to why that is true, LOL.  At TP, many of those bunkers are large enough to become visually disassociated from the putting surface.  I think Rees and Bobby both got their idea on "scale" from their father, and rarely deviated from that style.  Understandable, they were mentored by one of the greats, and how much were they going to question their basic style?


As to shape, the first time I read the phrase "Rees pieces" was here, and I think it came from Tommy N.  Derogatory, yes, but full points for being clever.  When a bunker is round, it needs to be smaller than he typically built them.  I think the idea came back from Scotland, either via Pete Dye, or the ASGCA trip to Scotland in 1980.  Or, earlier, the Robert Bruce Harris oval or clamshell bunkers, which never looked good.  Many ASGCA members brought back the idea of pot bunkers, but then enlarged them to accommodate modern maintenance, or maybe the then scale of American golf courses.  Round bunkers also generally look better when clustered with a few cousins......but, when Rees tried that with his (IMHO) oversized round bunkers, a clever moniker was born, LOL.


Most of his bunkers at TP are more shapely, but I think the corners, capes, and bays were tuned to the radius of a bank mower (or sand pro) for ease of maintenance, which is not uncommon on public courses.  Bunker rakes turn in a diameter of about 16-18 feet now (used to be 20+ feet) and bank mowers are still stuck around 25 foot diameters, near as I can tell, but I think a few can mow tighter.  Using those dimensions (and exceeding them) tends to soften out the shapes and make bunkers bigger. 


But, there are times when that IS the most logical way to design a bunker that fits all needs of a public course.  Whether it is for a US Open venue is another story.


There is perhaps also the question of what the USGA thinks of shaggy bunker edges that are popular now?  (Although, they didn't have a lot of trouble with his brother's Chambers Bay) Ress has had many opportunities to discuss the USGA philosophy on how bunkers ought to present and play in their major championship, and we have to think it is USGA directed to some degree. 


Certainly, competitors probably hate the idea of missing by 5 feet and being in the long grass, or missing by 8-10 feet and being stuck in some craggy and unplayable edge, when missing by 15 puts you in the relatively easy bottom of a sand bunker.  Add in the longstanding USGA requirement for narrow fw and flanking bunkers (which actually worked pretty well, with many of them coming into play, especially on the canyon holes, where they were the safety outlet.  A separate point, but I wonder how Rory felt about being up against the back lip of a bunker and shanking it?  Yes, rub of the green, or sand, but I have heard lots of discussion from players over the years about any situation where they "have no shot" from a bunker, usually when playing from a downhill lie, and especially when up against a back edge.


Anyway, short version, they don't have enough shape to please the eye for their size.  Or, in layman's terms, they are a bit, shall we say, "blah". :)


But, visuals aren't the only consideration, although, in the TV age, I think the probably should be, LOL.  I have heard stories of the TPC course directing green backing bunkers (like those Pete Dye wraparounds) so they look good from the cameras behind the green.  In one case, they directed a waterfall be built facing away from golfers but facing towards likely TV tower locations, etc.
Jeff,


Complaining about Rees Jones bunkers 20 years ago? Hell, that takes us back to the days of Tommy Naccarato.


Maybe Tommy can make a guest appearance!
Tim Weiman

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2021, 03:51:04 PM »
Jeff--


That note about bunker breadth relative to green width is really interesting. On Rees Jones holes I've played like 14 at LPGA International or 13 at Reynolds (Oconee), bunkers abutting the greens are so far out of the scale you mention that I have to believe it was a conscious choice. Those bunkers have the visual effect of dwarfing otherwise not-small par-3 greens such that it's an exercise in visual intimidation. It certainly also adds maintenance time, so there's definitely a debate to be had over whether it's in line with the more sustainability-focused era of architecture to come.


But this brings me back to one question I asked: is unsettling the golfer - in this case, by purposefully laying bunkers out of normal scale with a green - a legitimate tactic by an architect? I personally think so, but I also think it's possible to overdo it and I can accept the argument that some or even many Rees Jones courses lean quite hard on that tactic, perhaps to their own detriment.


In the case of Torrey Pines, I would almost argue for filling in several (most? all?) of the fairway bunkers and just making them grass hollows, in the understanding that they don't really play the way they should because of how easily pros can escape from normal fwy bunker lies. I wonder if Rees and his team might even be on board with it; some renovations they've been involved in of late seem to include reducing sand square footage significantly.


Tim,


Of course, it is.  For a very good example, consider Fazio's Shadow Creek.  On the 11th, a short approach has a huge bunker in front, making the approach shot seem shorter, and often causing an approach to come up short.  On the next hole, the bunkering leads the eye to a point behind the green, but the fw bunkers are huge, and the one behind the green is smaller than normal, creating forced perspective, and even with a lie next to a sprinkler head, it makes 140 yards looks like 165. 


I doubt pro golfers would get fooled, and the value of such may be diminished in the age of yardage books and range finders, but it's still a neat effect.


There is also the possibility of staggering bunkers, and partially hiding ground behind the first, which can create the illusion of a shorter distance.  That said, I think the USGA course set up parameters as long as Rees has been the Open Doctor is "What you see is what you get" and difficult, which guides bunker placements, even if repetitive.


The scale is so consistent, at least from TV and one play a few years back, that I don't get the impression Rees did that intentionally.  Rather, I think it's just a style the USGA liked, so it was repeated.  It seems as if Gil's bunkers are going to be coming under the microscope now.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rees Jones Bunkering
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2021, 05:52:45 PM »
That is an interesting question about the Hanse work on upcoming US Open venues. My understanding was that Jones’ bunkering philosophy/style was already consistent with what the USGA liked. Is that true for Hanse or are they are going to “force” him into what they prefer? I have played only Streamsong Black (bunkering a bit over the top in terms of number and depth/size but it fit the scale of the property) and PH4 (bunkering did not seem to add a ton of value but not USGA style). So I do not have a good understanding of his preferred approach.


Ira