[Cliff Hamm]

Thought this might be of interest:


https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/19/sports/next-tee-us-open-country-club-brookline/

[Tommy Williamsen]

I thought they might go in 2023 on the 110th anniversary of Ouimet's victory. I always love the Open there. The first one I remember is 1963 and Boros' playoff win over Palmer and Jackie Cupit. My pro, Lou Graham had his first Open appearance there and missed the cut, but came back to win at Medinah in 1975.

[John Blain]

I thought they might go in 2023 on the 100th anniversary of Ouimet's victory. I always love the Open there. The first one I remember is 1963 and Boros' playoff win over Palmer and Jackie Cupit. My pro, Lou Graham had his first Open appearance there and missed the cut, but came back to win at Medinah in 1975.

Ouimet actually won the US Open in 1913 and I remember there was a lot of talk about going back to TCC to celebrate Ouimet's 100th anniversary but it didn't happen for whatever reason and they ended up going to Merion instead.

[Adam G]

For those interested, here is the routing they are using along with some schematics for hospitality (from the USGA's advertising for corporate hospitality).

I wonder where the spectator entrance will be? Anyone know? I hope they don't destroy Putterham this time. Excited to go!

[Ian Mackenzie]

I played in a M/G at TCC just recently under US Open conditions as the USGA wanted the club to get to "test conditions" in June.
DEEP rough, narrow FWs but greens were 10.5-11 and not 12+.


Observations:


1. The driving range situation was very odd. They will basically convert holes 9/10 on the "Main course" into the range. It looked very awkward to me.


2. The "Locker Building" was under construction and is being totally renovated.


3. In addition to 9/10, the normal 4th hole on Main Course is being whacked for the Open.


4. The normal 300 yard par 4 2nd is now a 225 uphill par 3 that was VERY intimidating.

[Tim Gavrich]

I'm excited to see this. How long will TCC play?


2 was shortened to a long par 3 for the '99 Ryder Cup as well, wasn't it? Is there a known reason why? Just looking at the aerial, i'm guessing at least part of it would be a desire to limit foul balls maiming golfers/fans on/around the 5th green and 6th tee?

[jeffwarne]

I played in a M/G at TCC just recently under US Open conditions as the USGA wanted the club to get to "test conditions" in June.
DEEP rough, narrow FWs but greens were 10.5-11 and not 12+.


Observations:


1. The driving range situation was very odd. They will basically convert holes 9/10 on the "Main course" into the range. It looked very awkward to me.


2. The "Locker Building" was under construction and is being totally renovated.


3. In addition to 9/10, the normal 4th hole on Main Course is being whacked for the Open.


4. The normal 300 yard par 4 2nd is now a 225 uphill par 3 that was VERY intimidating.

Controversial opinion.
Does it make sense to bastardize your course/courses to create a course that's rarely in play?
What is the length of the inconvenience for members?
I get it.It's TCC-Ouimet etc. but wow

[Ian Mackenzie]

I played in a M/G at TCC just recently under US Open conditions as the USGA wanted the club to get to "test conditions" in June.
DEEP rough, narrow FWs but greens were 10.5-11 and not 12+.


Observations:


1. The driving range situation was very odd. They will basically convert holes 9/10 on the "Main course" into the range. It looked very awkward to me.


2. The "Locker Building" was under construction and is being totally renovated.


3. In addition to 9/10, the normal 4th hole on Main Course is being whacked for the Open.


4. The normal 300 yard par 4 2nd is now a 225 uphill par 3 that was VERY intimidating.

Controversial opinion.
Does it make sense to bastardize your course/courses to create a course that's rarely in play?
What is the length of the inconvenience for members?
I get it.It's TCC-Ouimet etc. but wow

The 9th hole (for member play) is unchanded today. For an uphill 420 yard hole, its green was about the size of our bedroom. It was literally the smallest green I have ever seen on a "championship" course and had the look and feel of a muni green at a course like Canal Shores. MUCH smaller green than anything at PB.


the 10th is a very awkward hole with a new flat plateau that will be the teeing ground for the 2022 range. Every time I hit my tee shot there I turned in all directions and was like "where the F are these pros going to hit to...?..."


Two holes from the "Primrose 9" will be used for the Open. #s 9, 13 and 14 on the PPT from the link are on the Primrose.


It also AMAZED me that the main entrance to the club - and it is hardly a small, intimate setting - bifurcates the 15th fairway with (at times) a flow of traffic that was noteworthy. (Members, contractors, employees, etc.)


The 3rd hole from the new "Open Tee" is a ball-buster. it shares a FW with the 4th hole (5th for members) and, in 3 rounds, I never made better than bogey from the member tees. Totally blind second shot unless you go to bottom of hill.


AND, the fact that they are playing #10 (#11 par 5 for the members) as a par 4 is mind-boggling.
Sure, I dont have "tour distance", but at age 58 can hit a drive 280 and a seven iron 170 and I played that hole: Ripped drive, seven iron, gap wedge to an uphill green severlely sloping away from the player L to R.


I heard it was going to be a par 70 @ ~7600 yards.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I thought they might go in 2023 on the 100th anniversary of Ouimet's victory. I always love the Open there. The first one I remember is 1963 and Boros' playoff win over Palmer and Jackie Cupit. My pro, Lou Graham had his first Open appearance there and missed the cut, but came back to win at Medinah in 1975.

Ouimet actually won the US Open in 1913 and I remember there was a lot of talk about going back to TCC to celebrate Ouimet's 100th anniversary but it didn't happen for whatever reason and they ended up going to Merion instead.

Sorry, I meant 110.

[PCCraig]

Ian -


Cool insight.


I caddied at TCC when I was in college.


I believe the 9th hole has been the driving range for big events for some time. They used to have a big tee pad just sitting there just as you walk off the 9th tee. The normal range is very small between 1 and 18 and it clearly makes a lot more sense for some corporate tents than a range with Bryson hitting it onto the 18th tee or Francis' bedroom window! 


The 2nd hole used to have a Championship Course tee at about 190 out, which always seemed impossible then, but seems crazy at 225. That's mostly as that green is a tiny dome and is straight uphill from the tee, not to mention it's always the firmest spot on the entire course.


It's kind of a shame they are cutting out the normal 4th hole, as that is such a classic hole with a cool small green.


Which brings me to your other point on the size of the greens...such a neat feature of the course and those tiny targets will likely be the main defense of the course from the pros. The 14th is going to play CRAZY hard as a par-5, even for the big guys, at 600 yards as the fairway is narrow, there is a massive ridge of high rough 200 yards out, and the green is a tiny target that is (used to be at least) tucked behind a big tree or two.


I've seen plenty of cars and trucks hit by balls on 15. The drivers are supposed to wait for tee balls but a lot of time someone hits and an unfamiliar visitor misses the sign and drives out into the line of play. I would guess a fair amount of players will be skipping their drives off the road for a turbo boost during play. Quirk!


Love the variety of holes and yardages though in the routing.


Sure as hell will be more interesting to watch than Torrey Pines!!  [size=78%] [/size]

[Dan_Callahan]

It’s a shame they are skipping the 4th, because it’s a very cool hole. But it means they are putting the 12th back into play, which is one of my favorite short par 3s anywhere.

[peter_mcknight]

Good afternoon...If the 1963, 1988, 1999 and 2013 routing had been maintained, there would have been a 7,500 yard course in 2022.  As seen in 2013, it would have meant the 14th in the championship rotation would have played as a par four, leaving the 12th as the only par five on the course.From everything I can see, there's just no way possible to have a 7,600 yard course at TCC...there's just not enough acreage to accommodate that.  In point of fact, the nearly 7,340 yard par 70 course in 2022 represents the course in nearly 99% maxed out condition.  And, at 7,340, it will play only thirty yards longer than in 2013, but 300 longer than in 1999 and 1988.Compiling everything I have read/heard, the scorecard would be as follows (yards added since 1999):485 (35)
220 (30)
490 (40)
510 (75)
310 (0)
200 (0)
375 (0)
560 (25) (creates a situation similar to that seen at Oakmont with no. 10 and 670 yard back tee at no. 12)
435 (0)
510 (0) (will play as a par four in 2022, just like it did in 2013)
140 (0)
475 (30)
455 (5)
625 (played as a 485 yard par 4 in 1999; 450 in 1988 and 470 (!) in 1963)
510 (75)
205 (20)
375 (0)
455 (20)
7,340 yards par 70Given decent weather conditions next year, I'd believe -7 to -10 will win.  I'd even hazard to say we'll see more than a few 64s and 65s.

[jeffwarne]

Peter,
-10 on a par 70?
wow.




The USGA's last line of defense(the converted par 5) defeated?


I'll take the over.

[Adam G]

Thanks Peter.

To my eye 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 12, 13, 15, and 18 are absolute brutes at those yardages. 10 will probably be the hardest hole all week.

What do you think are the scoring holes? 5, 8, and 17 clearly but what else?

[Dan_Callahan]

Got to figure they’ll feast on the 11th unless it’s windy … just a little chippy wedge.

[PCCraig]

Of course there are many variables but I would guess the winning score will be around par in a similar fashion to Merion in 2013. There are some short holes like 12 or 16 (on the member course) but 7 at 200 yards is not easy and 2 at 225 is just insanely hard even for the pros.


But of course, it doesn't really matter what the final score is. It should be really fun to watch.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Got to figure they’ll feast on the 11th unless it’s windy … just a little chippy wedge.

Reminds me of the 12th at Shoreacres.


Pros will play it at about 130 yards.
Sure, sounds easy. But, the green is treacherous and, if they put pins at the back, it may be an easy par but will be an earned birdie.

[PCCraig]

Got to figure they’ll feast on the 11th unless it’s windy … just a little chippy wedge.

Reminds me of the 12th at Shoreacres.


Pros will play it at about 130 yards.
Sure, sounds easy. But, the green is treacherous and, if they put pins at the back, it may be an easy par but will be an earned birdie.

What do they have behind the green now? Is it rough or short grass? There is a hazard back there and an overcooked wedge can bounce into it. Curious what Hanse put back there.

[peter_mcknight]

I think TCC still has part of a reputation as a brutal course because of what transpired in 1963, especially on the Saturday 36 hole finale.  Let's not forget that (a) there was an extended winter in 1963 in the northeast, leading to interesting course conditions and (b) gale force winds on said Saturday, leading to three players at 293.1988 was probably closer to normal weather conditions in the northeast.  There were 11 players under par and Strange and Faldo broke 280 at -6.  The top amateurs seemed to handle TCC quite reasonably in 2013, nothing shocking to see there.
Unless the governing body institutes a different course set-up than what they have done in recent years (e.g., knee high rough), it should play as a standard course...tough but extremely fair.I believe the governing body went out of its way to ensure Merion wasn't embarrassed in 2013 and set it up with curious rough lines (e.g. hole no.2 comes to mind), tee and hole selections.  I don't believe there was anything wrong with what David Graham did in 1981, playing nearly flawless golf and returning a 273 score, including his spectacular 67 in the final round.  I would have been fine if Merion's champion indeed had returned a 273 final score; there would have been nothing wrong with it.  I will always believe Merion 2013 was simply a political statement expressed through a golf tournament.
As to scoring holes, one would surmise 5-9, 14 and 16-18.  And, yes, I can see no.10 (the former 9th) playing as the hardest hole on the course.
TCC remains a great course, but it isn't in the same knee capping league as an Oakmont or Winged Foot or Shinnecock when out of control.  I'll stick with the -7 final return.  The days of back to back +5 winning totals are over.

[Matthew Rose]

#2 was a par three in 1988 as well. I still have the foldout map from Golf Digest in a box somewhere.

[Amol Yajnik]

For those interested, here is the routing they are using along with some schematics for hospitality (from the USGA's advertising for corporate hospitality).

I wonder where the spectator entrance will be? Anyone know? I hope they don't destroy Putterham this time. Excited to go!

Putterham will not be destroyed in 2022.  USGA wanted to use the entire course for a huge spectator village, TV compounds, etc.  The town wanted the USGA to pay for a complete renovation of the course after the event.  USGA said no and went to an alternate plan.  From what I've heard, only a couple of holes on Putterham will be taken over by the USGA.


I've lived in Brookline since 2008 and was lucky enough to play the course in 2019 and 2020, with the 2019 round being played on some of the composite holes because repairs were being done on the main course.  As most on here know, the greens will be the main defense of the course, because distance doesn't really matter to the pros anymore.  The weather around here this spring has been extremely good with very little rain, USGA will be hoping for similar conditions next year.  The routing (as posted by another person in this thread) is a little funky in the 8/9/10 area but it makes sense for the overall flow of the round.  As others have lamented, #4 on the main course is being dropped and that's a shame because it's a really cool little hole.  But the new championship tee on #5 on the main course (will be #4 in the US Open) is so far back that it's <100 yards from the 3rd green.


If the weather cooperates, I think that it will play similar to Merion and single digits under par will be the winning score, also similar to last week at Torrey.  If the course is soft, then all bets are off.

[Adam G]

One other thing of interest: Google maps' aerial view seems to be older while Bing's is newer and you can see a bunch of the green enlargements and new tees Hanse and co have put in (I believe in 2019 and 2020?). The green expansions are slightly different color (Bing's probably taken shortly after they were put in), but by switching between the two you can clearly see the changes.

Some noteworthy things:
1. The longer tee on #2 as a par 3
2. New tee on 3 3/4 of way up #6 (#5 members) fairway along with enlarged green.
3. Enlarged green on #5 (#6 members)
4. Enlarged green on 11 (#12 members drop shot par 3). Enlarged closer to bunkers with a tiny front left pin.
5. Enlarged green on 16 closer to front-right bunkers.
6. Enlarged green on 18 closer to front and left bunkers.
I'm sure there are a few other things I missed as well.

[Cliff Hamm]

Just saw on Geoff Shackleford’s Quadrlateral that daily tickets are sold out for next year‘s U.S. Open.  When I went on the USGA site recently it only listed weekly tickets at $880. I registered to be updated when daily tickets were available and was never notified. The only tickets available are $1500 for the Trophy Club package. It would appear that USGA members bought the tickets. I never recall a U.S. Open selling out so quickly.

[PCCraig]

Just saw on Geoff Shackleford’s Quadrlateral that daily tickets are sold out for next year‘s U.S. Open.  When I went on the USGA site recently it only listed weekly tickets at $880. I registered to be updated when daily tickets were available and was never notified. The only tickets available are $1500 for the Trophy Club package. It would appear that USGA members bought the tickets. I never recall a U.S. Open selling out so quickly.

How many fans are they allowing on the grounds? Guessing quite a few tickets will be tied to corporate hospitality.

[Amol Yajnik]

Just saw on Geoff Shackleford’s Quadrlateral that daily tickets are sold out for next year‘s U.S. Open.  When I went on the USGA site recently it only listed weekly tickets at $880. I registered to be updated when daily tickets were available and was never notified. The only tickets available are $1500 for the Trophy Club package. It would appear that USGA members bought the tickets. I never recall a U.S. Open selling out so quickly.

Shack is not correct on this one.  There will be an allocation for single-day tickets that will go on sale at a later date.

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