US Women’s Open “rota”

[David_Tepper]

Jeff S. -

From a practical standpoint, the Valley Club would not work at all. No room to support the infrastructure required. No way that site could support 3,000-5,000 of spectators every day.

DT

[Phil Burr]

[size=78%]I have to believe that anyone from the USPGA who claims the Ryder Cup is anything but a cash cow is a liar.  How else can they justify the logistics and infrastructure for an event which sees just eight matches on course both Friday and Saturday and twelve on Sunday?  That less than an hour’s worth of weekend tee times at most public courses.  Unlike the NCAA Final Four and the Super Bowl, which are American-created overblown spectacles in which the trappings dwarf the event (basketball played in a 75,000 seat arena with spectators 500 feet from the court; football games at which an entire concert stage is assembled & dis-assembled at halftime), responsibility for what the Ryder has become is shared by two continents.  Is this arms race going to continue unchecked forever or could there come an injection of reality into the scale of the show?[/size]

[Peter Flory]

I don't really like the idea of a rota for the women for practical purposes.

.......

IMO the Women's game needs courses that give their game an identity.  The rota does that.

It would be nice if the great clubs would do it.  I'm just saying that I wouldn't settle on a rotation with the clubs that are likely to sign on for that.  Pebble Beach is a good example.  My suspicion is that they won't want to have a USWO there every 5 years, but they are willing to do it on a one off basis. 

[Phil Burr]

As for the upcoming 2026 host venue announcement, I’ll keep my fingers crossed for Waverley.

[Tony Ristola]

I don't really like the idea of a rota for the women for practical purposes.


It seems like a lot of these great courses might agree to host for the good of the game periodically, rather than on a regular basis.  For instance, I could see courses like Cypress, Chicago Golf, or Merion agreeing to do it once with a maybe for the future. 


Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that a women's US Open isn't very profitable for the host club and that if it is, it doesn't make up for the hassle and the lost time for the members.  Most of these great clubs don't need the money anyway.  So don't ask for so much that they reject it completely.

The women have a plethora of great courses to play (so long as the memberships/owners go for it)… those the men’s tour can’t. It would be wise for them to exploit them every year… it may attract more viewers, but then I’m reminded of the Senior Women’s Open at Chicago GC, and I don’t think it got much of a following.


But the marketing angle is a pretty good one. Going to many grand courses that don’t or can’t host men’s events… Cypress, Chicago, Bel Air CC and the like. Courses the public normally couldn’t get on.


Another thing that makes the Women’s Open attractive is they won’t have to go crazy narrowing the course, building new tees, or buying property to extend the course.

[David_Tepper]

This wishful thinking (i.e. fantasy ) of playing the USWO at courses like Cypress, Chicago, Bel-Air, Valley Club, etc. should probably stop.

The USWO is arguably the biggest women's golf tournament in the world. For a course to host the USWO it would need the following:

1) A driving range at least 275 yards long and wide enough to accommodate 30-50 golfers at the same time.
2) Space for 6-8 large tents for scoring, first aid, media, volunteers, merchandise sales, food & beverage sales, etc.
3) Space for 2-3 large vans to accommodate the USGA staff that will be working onsite for the 6 months leading up to the event.
4) Access to parking for at least a thousand cars a day.
5) Enough room on the course for 3,000 to 5,000 spectators a day and the grandstands for them to sit in.

I am sure I am missing a couple more items. I have been to Cypress, Bel-Air & the Valley Club. Having spent 6 days last week at the Olympic Club and seen the space and infrastructure needed to host the USWO, I cannot imagine those clubs could come come close to meeting the requirements listed above.

But I could be wrong! 

 

[Garland Bayley]

David,

Weren't (or aren't) spectators bused in to Pebble Beach for the men's open, and to The Ocean Course for the PGA?

Parking for spectators doesn't seem to be a hard requirement.

[David_Tepper]

Garland -

Yes, spectators for most of the big golf tournaments are shuttle-bused to the course from off-site parking lots. That is why I said "access" to parking rather than "on-site" parking.

DT 

[JohnVDB]

The buildout for the Women’s Open is considerably smaller than the US Open, but as David pointed out it is still substantial.  Usually 2-4 trailers are used for USGA offices including Rules and Scoring support.


Some of the items David listed can be accommodated in the clubhouse.  Player scoring areas are frequently in the clubhouse.  It was inside at Olympic in 2012.


Sufficient locker room facilities are important.  At Pebble, a temporary building was built for the last two opens for example.


Parking for spectators is frequently offsite, but that means huge transportation costs to bus them to and from the course.


As an FYI, I was told by a former member of staff that the cost to build the corporate village for the Open at Erin Hills was greater than the entire budget for the US Open, including the purse, when he started at the USGA in the 1980s.

[Kalen Braley]

David,

I think what Garland was trying to say is, if the USGA could hold a US Open at courses literally just down the street from Cypress and Bel-Air, I'm pretty sure they can figure it out.  Even Pebble uses an off-site range seemingly without issues.

The Valley Club seems like it could be tricky as there is limited access around it.  However, perhaps something could be worked out with its neighbor to help with the parking and the range, which just happens to be directly behind the Valley Club clubhouse.

[David_Tepper]

Kalen -

I can only respond to what people say, rather than what they are "trying" to say.

No doubt there are ways to mitigate each of the issues/hurdles I have raised. Taking the USWO to a site where all those issues have to be dealt with makes things that much more difficult.

Yes, the US Open will be held at Los Angeles CC. But LACC is a 36-hole facility with access off of both Wilshire Blvd. and Santa Monica Blvd. Bel-Air is a much smaller property with much tougher access. 

Of course, in the end it really comes down to if these member club want to engage in the effort and sacrifice needed to host an event like the USWO.

DT

[Wayne_Kozun]

Sufficient locker room facilities are important.  At Pebble, a temporary building was built for the last two opens for example.

Surely that is only an issue at public courses.  Most of the courses listed here are private and I am sure that the Women could use the Mens locker room if required - there are only about 150 players in the event.

[Jonathan Mallard]

2021: THE OLYMPIC CLUB (LAKE COURSE) - SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF. - JUNE 3-6



2022: PINE NEEDLES LODGE & GOLF CLUB - SOUTHERN PINES, N.C. - JUNE 2-5



2023: PEBBLE BEACH (CALIF.) GOLF LINKS - JUNE 1-4



2024: LANCASTER (PA.) COUNTRY CLUB - MAY 30-JUNE 2



2025: ERIN HILLS - ERIN, WIS. - MAY 29-JUNE 1


I'm told they will be announcing the 2026 site in two weeks and it will be going to a course on the west coast that has never hosted a US open.

Los Angeles Country Club meets that definition, no?

[David_Tepper]

Jonathan M. -

Since LACC is hosting the US Men's Open in 2023, it meets the definition, yes!

DT

[Tim Leahy]

It might be fun to see the ladies play Riviera. Amy Alcott is a member there I believe and might have some sway with the LPGA and USGA.

[Garland Bayley]

Look for back to back men's and women's opens at Chambers Bay within a decade's time.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland -

Yes, spectators for most of the big golf tournaments are shuttle-bused to the course from off-site parking lots. That is why I said "access" to parking rather than "on-site" parking.

DT

What? You expect a nerd to get such nuance?

[Tom_Doak]

Yes, the US Open will be held at Los Angeles CC. But LACC is a 36-hole facility with access off of both Wilshire Blvd. and Santa Monica Blvd. Bel-Air is a much smaller property with much tougher access. 

Of course, in the end it really comes down to if these member club want to engage in the effort and sacrifice needed to host an event like the USWO.

I can vouch for all of this.  Plus Bel Air would have to get approval from the community because of the traffic impacts.


Then again, just a week or two ago I got an announcement of three USGA events to be hosted at Bel Air over the next 6-8 years.


The bottom line is that the USGA can do what they want to.  Sebonack presented all sorts of logistical nightmares - players, spectators and commercial traffic all had to come in the same entrance because of wetlands issues!! - but they made it work because they wanted to be there.  And I think Mike Whan is determined to put the two Opens on a more even footing, even if it means robbing from Peter to pay Pauline (sorry for the Dad joke  ).

[Dave Duevel]

Yes, the US Open will be held at Los Angeles CC. But LACC is a 36-hole facility with access off of both Wilshire Blvd. and Santa Monica Blvd. Bel-Air is a much smaller property with much tougher access. 

Of course, in the end it really comes down to if these member club want to engage in the effort and sacrifice needed to host an event like the USWO.

I can vouch for all of this.  Plus Bel Air would have to get approval from the community because of the traffic impacts.


Then again, just a week or two ago I got an announcement of three USGA events to be hosted at Bel Air over the next 6-8 years.


The bottom line is that the USGA can do what they want to.  Sebonack presented all sorts of logistical nightmares - players, spectators and commercial traffic all had to come in the same entrance because of wetlands issues!! - but they made it work because they wanted to be there.  And I think Mike Whan is determined to put the two Opens on a more even footing, even if it means robbing from Peter to pay Pauline (sorry for the Dad joke  ).

Tom, I would be interested to see what your thoughts would be on how spectator flow could be managed at Bel-Air. Holes 3-5 and 16 would seem to be very difficult to get spectators to and from, as the tunnels/narrow walkways could preclude two-way traffic?

[David_Tepper]

"Then again, just a week or two ago I got an announcement of three USGA events to be hosted at Bel Air over the next 6-8 years."

My guess is those events will be of the Senior or Mid-Am type, the kind of events not likely to attract many spectators other than friends & family.

[Matthew Rose]

Look for back to back men's and women's opens at Chambers Bay within a decade's time.

I look forward to a 95 year-old Gary Player still complaining about it.

[JohnVDB]

"Then again, just a week or two ago I got an announcement of three USGA events to be hosted at Bel Air over the next 6-8 years."

My guess is those events will be of the Senior or Mid-Am type, the kind of events not likely to attract many spectators other than friends & family.

2023 Women’s Amateur
2026 Curtis Cup
2030 Mid-Amateur


No big crowdexpected