Range Finders

[Phil Burr]

I don’t like them.  Rather than preach about why I’ll leave it that.  I just watched a Golf Channel segment on the use of range finders at the PGA and thought of something I’d like to see but know I never will.  I’d like to see a tournament at which there are no yardage or green books allowed, no range finders, and sprinkler head yardage markers are covered over.  There would be no advance notification of which event where this would take place, but when the players went to the first tee on Thursday they would see posts in the fairway marking 200 yards to the center of the green (blue), 150 (white) and 100 (red).  Combine this with a strict shot clock with penalty strokes as enforcement and then we’d really see who’s good.  Let’s see who plays golf and who plays golf swing.

[Joe_Tucholski]

I don’t like them.  Rather than preach about why I’ll leave it that.  I just watched a Golf Channel segment on the use of range finders at the PGA and thought of something I’d like to see but know I never will.  I’d like to see a tournament at which there are no yardage or green books allowed, no range finders, and sprinkler head yardage markers are covered over.  There would be no advance notification of which event where this would take place, but when the players went to the first tee on Thursday they would see posts in the fairway marking 200 yards to the center of the green (blue), 150 (white) and 100 (red).  Combine this with a strict shot clock with penalty strokes as enforcement and then we’d really see who’s good.  Let’s see who plays golf and who plays golf swing.

No practice rounds?  With practice rounds I'm not sure it would make that big a difference. 


Similarly those who have played the course over and over or with caddies who have it's not like it's going to be a big surprise.


Shoot I know guys who map out their game plan on google maps for casual rounds.

[Phil Burr]

Joe, your points about course knowledge, practice rounds and good caddies are well taken.  But how many times have we overheard conversations when they player is asking the caddies whether the carry distance to point A is 182 yards or 183 (let’s face it, we all know 30 handicaps who sweat the same question).  My thought is that different pin positions and insufficient time for the caddie to run ahead to pace it off could create the uncertainty I’m looking for.

[Peter Flory]

My only problem with range finders is that mine keep breaking and the stupid things are about four times as expensive as they should be. 


I've played the last few tournaments without one and it's pretty annoying because of how poorly some courses are marked now.  They aren't marked well b/c everyone has lasers... vicious cycle. 

[Peter Sayegh]

Phil, for years I've thought it would be cool to have a "Survivor"-type golf competition. Twenty professional golfers airlifted to a course (ideally) unfamiliar to them, with only their clubs and two sleeves of balls. No warmup, no caddies, no range finders. Lowest score wins.

[Brock Lynch]

I'd like to see a professional tournament where players have to carry their own bags and make their own decisions. Get rid of the caddies!

[Dan_Callahan]

Contrarian position: I coach a high school team in a league loaded with good players. A few years ago, we made the step to allow range finders (it had been debated at coaches meetings for several years prior, and the reason we held off had nothing to do with golf ... we were concerned about the inequities for those who couldn't afford range finders). In any event, we finally allowed them, and it has sped up play considerably. Low scores aren't any lower, high scores aren't any higher, but the length of the matches was cut by an appreciable amount.

[Jon Sweet]

I wouldn’t say a rangefinder or lack thereof would identify the better players. The idea that one is a player and one is simply swinging the club to me isn’t it. These guys all are worried about cover numbers, front and back of greens, ridges and so forth. No range finders or markers would simply identify those with better depth perception. I certainly don’t think having it will speed up play at all, maybe on the rare way off line shots.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I’d get rid of everything other than an easily identifiable 150 yard marker.


Yours sincerely,
Melvyn Morrow.

[jeffwarne]

My only problem with range finders is that mine keep breaking and the stupid things are about four times as expensive as they should be. 


I've played the last few tournaments without one and it's pretty annoying because of how poorly some courses are marked now.  They aren't marked well b/c everyone has lasers... vicious cycle.

This.
My rangefinder of 10 years ago was far better. It could hit a pin and a hazard.
Some of the newer ones often miss the pin unless it has a prism on it.
Give me a simple one that does the job rather than one with an instruction manual and 100 useless features.


and spot on, there are few markers anymore because the clutter police have removed them all, assuming as you said, that everyone has a laser.


I'll take Phil's solution(100, 150,200) or better yet Ally's(the visible 150) every day, every time and ditch the laser immediately.

[Brad Lawrence]

I'd like to see a professional tournament where players have to carry their own bags and make their own decisions. Get rid of the caddies!

It would look just like a college tournament.  Take away these caddies and the golf is going to look exactly the same. Good players will go low.

[JESII]

Other than the sense of reminiscence, what would the 150 (and/or 100 and 200) yardage maker add?


I loathe the idea of watching Jordan and Bryson doing trigonometry with these lasers, but in reality the player is entitled to know their yardage without undue delay.


The laser has the best chance to deliver that.


A blind event would be fun for a hole or two but watching them misjudge shots would get old quick in my opinion.

[jeffwarne]

Other than the sense of reminiscence, what would the 150 (and/or 100 and 200) yardage maker add?


I loathe the idea of watching Jordan and Bryson doing trigonometry with these lasers, but in reality the player is entitled to know their yardage without undue delay.


The laser has the best chance to deliver that.


A blind event would be fun for a hole or two but watching them misjudge shots would get old quick in my opinion.

JIm,
Did you ever feel like you didn't have the right yardage with a marker and a pin sheet in an event?
You walk by the 200 and pace toward the green-glance up at the 150 for confirmation. 171 plus 4 for the pin.175 off you go.Knowing the center, pin, front and back from the sheet.
The other thing I see is frequently clubs don't provide pin sheets for events because of the laser.
I'd say that's harder(at times) than simply knowing the total yardage.


I'm not against lasers though(even for pros), just hate that there are rarely convenient visible markers for a quick calculation.
On a well designed course the pin is not always visible.(I'm sure they are all visible on the PGA Tour

[John Mayhugh]

My only problem with range finders is that mine keep breaking and the stupid things are about four times as expensive as they should be. 

Peter,
I've had good luck with a $200 Nikon one. Lasted several years problem free, and manages to hit targets in addition to flagsticks pretty well.
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/rangefinders/coolshot-20-gii-golf-laser-rangefinder.html

[JESII]

Jeff,


I was answering in the context of the PGA Championship and Tour pros in general. Unfortunately, I think they are simply going to take as long as they can to be sure they have the right number. A one-off event that tests their judgement skills would be fine but watching a Tour player hit it 30 yards over the green when he thinks he hit a good shot would be short lived entertainment in my view. Would love to see them pull the trigger faster and taking away information won't do that I'm afraid.


For me, you and two other guys out playing a regular game, absolutely love the low profile 100/150/200 marker. All you need...especially if you know the course at least a little bit.

[Charles Lund]

I've had a Golf Buddy VS4 for about six years.  I've used it in the U.S., Canada, England, Ireland, Scotland, Sweden, and Australia.   Gives distances to front, middle, and back of the green.  Finds course you are on when booted up.  Mine clips on visor.


Downside is it doesn't provide carry distances over bunkers or water. 


I've updated courses twice, the last as recently as two days ago.


Charge holds for one round.


Charles Lund

[Ira Fishman]

It is not possible to assess the impact on pace of play because the PGA is on a different course from the prior year, but it would be an interesting experiment to allow range finders for a regular tour stop to see the impact. I am betting it would slow things down.


I cannot figure out how to use a GPS watch let alone a range finder. 150 yard marker good by me, but I can understand why better players like more accurate distances.


Ira

[Jim Sherma]

Why not provide a tablet with a full visual GPS like on resort course carts? All information immediately available by clicking on specific points. No excuses for claiming you didn't know what the yardage was. Could also serve as the shot clock for them. Can't be worse than watching these guys spend minutes over each shot with their caddies.

[Niall C]

I’d get rid of everything other than an easily identifiable 150 yard marker.


Yours sincerely,
Melvyn Morrow.

Who the hell is taking my name in vain ?!!

No markers, ever !!

The Real Melvyn

[JESII]

No doubt!


We should play by sense of smell...

[Jim Franklin]

I like my laser. I play a lot of different courses and it helps. Now at my home course, I don't need it. We have visible 150 markers with red, white, or blue caps. Very easy to identify.

[Mike Hendren]

I like guessing the yardage when my friends pull out the gizmo.  Having grown up playing the game I'm rarely more than 5 to 10 yards off.   Most of them can't control their distance anyway and would be more than happy with 30 feet birdie putts. 


They do look like a bit of fun, though.


Mike

[Jason Thurman]

Why not provide a tablet with a full visual GPS like on resort course carts? All information immediately available by clicking on specific points. No excuses for claiming you didn't know what the yardage was. Could also serve as the shot clock for them. Can't be worse than watching these guys spend minutes over each shot with their caddies.

This might be the answer. Basically an electronic, dynamically-updated yardage book. Purists would hate it. Bushnell would hate it. But the great thing about apps is that they're generally affordable. To Peter's earlier point, rangefinders are great but expensive as hell. The cost of a rangefinder just adds to the list of three-figure purchases that are almost required for a serious golfer. A rules-conforming app with built-in shot clock, conceptually, could be awesome. Of course, this is golf, so somebody would figure out a way to charge $75/mo for it.


That's the kind of future that MIGHT be realistic, though. Ideas that we would eliminate practice rounds, slap up three stakes for yardage, make pros carry their own bag, and play by smell might be fun to type about, but they ain't happening.


Also, if you're impersonating Melvyn, you need to type no less than 1500 words. I'm expecting this thread will get a Facebook post from him at least... and I'm thinking he's not going to love me hopping on board with this app idea.

[Peter Pallotta]

The near future, perhaps: the tour allows range-finding tablets & apps, and the networks link that data to on-screen graphics in real time, so we can see exactly what the player-caddie are seeing & discussing -- like with Steve Austin (The Six Million Dollar Man) and his bionic eye. As Jim says, a full GPS + GC Quad Pro image that lets us plan and track the shot from start to finish (and 'read' distance, wind direction and elevation changes, and then spin rate, club-head & ball speed, launch & attack angle, and smash factor). I think they'd call it a 'fully immersive and interactive experience', and maybe they will even sell those VR googles so we can 'get inside the action'. It'll be fun, and make watching golf on television more interesting.

[Ian Mackenzie]

$1,000 driver shafts?
Easy hitting Hybrids?
Driving irons?
Lob wedges?
PERFECT sand in bunkers?
Alignment aids on golf balls?
460 cc driver heads with trampoline faces?
Sweat-Wicking clothing?
Ridiculously detailed green books?
Detailed Pin sheets?
Beta blockers, CBD pills..?

And yet a debate still exists on a simpler method to tell a player what he will figure out anyway?

Seriously?

If the game wants a check on the hyperbolic technologies that are now so prevalent on tour, I will cite Nick Faldo's brilliant comment a few weeks back:


- Let's limit the size of the golf tee to 2 - 2.5" TOPS.


Love to see Bryson hit his 7 degree driver with it.


Something tells me the "tee manufacturers" will get on board w/o a fuss...;-)