What constitutes a short par 3 for you ?

[Niall C]

In Tom D's thread on short par 3's there were a lot of examples thrown about that certainly all that short for me. Personally 130 yards and below constitutes a short par 3 for me. What is it for you ?


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

In Tom D's thread on short par 3's there were a lot of examples thrown about that certainly all that short for me. Personally 130 yards and below constitutes a short par 3 for me. What is it for you ?


Niall

Under 150 is short


Under 130 is defined by its shortness.

[Phil Burr]

Pitching wedge or less on a calm day at sea level.

[Sean_A]

About 125 or less is a short par 3 for me.

Ciao

[Jim Sherma]

I’d agree with the 125-130 length as the max length for a short par 3. Full PW or less.

[Thomas Dai]

Circa 135 yds (on level terrain).
atb

[Dan Delaney 🐮]

In Tom D's thread on short par 3's there were a lot of examples thrown about that certainly all that short for me. Personally 130 yards and below constitutes a short par 3 for me. What is it for you ?


Niall

Under 150 is short


Under 130 is defined by its shortness.

This is perfect

[Adrian_Stiff]

As an architect I would say under 150. As a player under 130.


I always think as a rough rule
MICRO less than 100
SHORT 101-150
MEDIUM 151-185
LONG 186-220
VERY LONG 221-250

[Duncan Cheslett]

Given that the average par 3 is around 150 yards I’d say a short one is under around 125 yards.

[Niall C]

Interesting comments. For me what defines it is what club I use or have to use to get there. I can still just about hit an 8 iron 130 yards. If I have to hit a 7 iron then that is mid-territory.


Personally, I prefer short par 3's or long par 3's rather than mid-length ones. I always feel there is more scope to manufacture a shot on a short part 3 whereas on a mid-length hole I just tend to hit the club. On long par 3's I just love it when you're going for the green with timber in your hand.


Niall

[Jeff Schley]

Under 150.

[Jeff_Brauer]

As an architect I would say under 150. As a player under 130.


I always think as a rough rule
MICRO less than 100
SHORT 101-150
MEDIUM 151-185
LONG 186-220
VERY LONG 221-250

I am in this boat, but as an archie, will say 150 back tees, 130 average tees, 110 senior tees, and under 90 for forward tees.


Niall, I recall having a course just miss the GD best new public list.  In reading the comments, it was clear that the course, which porposely had all fun, mid length par 3's that a rating criteria was length differential in par 3's.  So, for a while, I designed courses which had par 3's of roughly 130, 170, 210, and 250+ figuring no one would find those the same. (Back tee yardage)


I had always been taught, both from my mentors, and the super I worked under for summers in college, that average golfers just don't care for 200+ yards on a par 3.  Even with top players now hitting much further, I probably split the tees further if I want the back tees to be extremely long.  Because, who I am I designing for?  Raters or players?


Add in the typical back ups at par 3 holes, and a slightly easier hole (rather than slightly harder one, as per Ross) makes some sense in avoiding long waits, and shorter holes are easier.  Not to mention, public players still see par 3 holes as a breather and better opportunity for par than 4's and 5's.


I have never had the gumption to do a micro par 3 on a regulation course, though. I think many golfers would find that too easy, and maybe somewhat condescending, even if the hole isn't as easy as the length would indicate.

[Kalen Braley]

Another vote for the 125 or less camp. 

As much as we've seen distance gains for the best players, your average joe still gonna be hitting 7 iron from 150, certainly not a short club.

[Terry Lavin]

About 125 or less is a short par 3 for me.

Ciao

Agree.

[Steve_Lovett]

Under 150 from the back tees.

[Tom_Doak]

I am surprised at all of the "125" responses, because I do not often see holes that short -- from the back tees, or even from the tees I play.  I would have said anything under 150.  Under 125 is "very short".

[Niall C]

Jeff


I recall one time playing Craigielaw which is just over the wall from Kilspindie and is a modern Tom MacKenzie course that has 5 par 3's. The par 3's are all of varying lengths but they also have sizeable tees which meant that they can play around with the yardage for each hole. Somehow on this day the greenkeeper managed to get the tee positions, the holes positions and the wind direction perfectly aligned such that I played the same club on every par 3.


As an aside, do you still think it's true that average golfers (and I'm very average) don't like long par 3's ?


Niall

[V. Kmetz]

As an aside, do you still think it's true that average golfers (and I'm very average) don't like long par 3's ?

Niall

Dead Horse Zombie Alert - so you're asking if golfers don't like 200-240 yard holes? Same thing, isn't it?

[Duncan Cheslett]

I am surprised at all of the "125" responses, because I do not often see holes that short -- from the back tees, or even from the tees I play.  I would have said anything under 150.  Under 125 is "very short".

You need to get out more! 


I guess my idea of what constitutes a short par 3 is influenced by my favourite such hole anywhere - the 115 yard 15th at Cavendish




15 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


I take your point about back tees though. I'm also a member at Silloth and think of the 9th as a short par 3, even though I've had to hit 4 iron in the past to get anywhere near!

Checking the yardage just now, I'm astounded to learn that there is actually a back tee at 142 yards. Even in club competitions, I've never played it from more than 130 yards.  It is generally played from around 120.

 https://www.sillothgolfclub.co.uk/hole_9

[Sean_A]

Another vote for the 125 or less camp. 

As much as we've seen distance gains for the best players, your average joe still gonna be hitting 7 iron from 150, certainly not a short club.

This is my thinking...and then there are women, kids and old folks to consider. Just because there aren't many sub 125ers doesn't mean that isn't a better distance to determine a short hole. Archies are missing a big trick in this area just as they are with 230-270ish range. Archies chase yardage to meet a predetermined goal of acceptable total length. Golf would be better off with more holes in the ranges of 90-125 and 230-275.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Golf would be better off with more holes in the ranges of 90-125 and 230-275.

90-125 yds yes, would prefer 250-300 yds but 230 to 275 metres will do.
Not enough ultra-shorties for sure. Not just for play reasons but course footprint, pace of play etc as well.
atb

[AChao]

Short to me means Wedge or maybe 9-iron or shorter ... so 140 ish and in.  Long would be long-iron (4) or higher so 210 ish or more. 

[Niall C]

As an aside, do you still think it's true that average golfers (and I'm very average) don't like long par 3's ?

Niall

Dead Horse Zombie Alert - so you're asking if golfers don't like 200-240 yard holes? Same thing, isn't it?

I'm not sure who you are suggesting is the zombie, me or you ?


Firstly, and similar to the question in the OP, what constitutes a long par 3 is up to the individual. For me it has to do with the club I'd be hitting in normal conditions ie. a 150 yard hole into a 4 club wind wouldn't count as a long par 3 for me in normal circumstances. If in normal conditions I'm hitting a wood or even a hybrid then that counts as a long par 3 and that can be anything from 190 yards, 185 even depending on whether it is uphill. Others will have their own views as this thread has already shown.


I think you also need to consider factors other than pure length. There tends to be a difference between a short par 4 and a long par 3 although the differences can be a grey area and also fairly academic for the likes of Rory or Dustin but we're not talking about them. However, all that said, answer the question as you please, for yourself, or for what you think the average hacker likes.


Niall

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Personally I don't think a PW or below belongs on a Par 3.
So work that one out?!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Interesting how every architect on this thread has plumped for 150 and just about everyone else has plumped for 130.


Also, why are so many of you considering women and short hitters? Surely it is taken for granted that every 150 yard hole has tees that are further forward? A 150 yard hole off the Ladies Tee is quite clearly not a short par-3. More often than not, that is a 210 yard hole.


If the question is about each individual answering and their specific choice of tee, then that is a little different. But I took it as a general question about perception.