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Kyle Casella

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2021, 03:50:06 PM »
. . . from scratch, which one existing hole would you take as inspiration?


For this exercise, assume we are building something like The Lido, starting with a flat sandy site.  You can move as much dirt as you want, within limits [don't give me a 60-foot drop shot], but you can't create an ocean backdrop or anything like that.  There is plenty of scope to have multiple tees / alternate tees at right angles.


I think the best example from my own work is probably the 7th at Barnbougle, but I don't really like to repeat myself.


Maybe these have been posted but I didn't get through everything. 15th at LACC has to be a highlight for me. 16th at Ohoopee is also pretty good. I also like the idea of a kind of blind shot with a green that runs away from the player. Can't think of a tremendous example but always thought that was a compelling challenge on a short par 3 (edit: especially if downwind!).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 03:52:44 PM by Kyle Casella »

Mike Hendren

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2021, 03:54:50 PM »
This discussion should begin and end with the 15th green at Fenway.


I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU.


Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2021, 03:59:36 PM »
The 9th at Silloth is a wicked little hole, especially into a strong breeze.


Donal


A great hole but basically a template copy of the Postage Stamp.


Niall
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 06:31:38 PM by Niall C »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2021, 07:13:24 PM »
7 at Palmetto
which gets better the shorter you play it
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2021, 07:27:01 PM »
 8)  My nominee is The Bad Baby, the 15th at Jasper Park, 140 some yards of innocent evil, accuracy required.
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Brian Ross

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2021, 07:30:57 PM »
Brian,
Is that the 11th? Looks like that will be some green!

John,

Yes, that's the one. Some days it will yield a bunch of birdies (and possibly an ace or two), some days you'll walk off happy with a par, and there will be plenty of "others" available on any day if you lose focus. Hope all is well!
Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in.

http://www.rossgolfarchitects.com

Philippe Binette

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2021, 08:03:43 PM »
Hole no 2 at Garden City


Hole no 14, madeleine course at Vercheres (but would need some aesthetic work).
120 yards
Narrow (12 paces) slightly angled green and slightly crowned. Back to front slope on the front half.
Steep 3 foot deep swale on the left with a steep bump a little further left... so you often end up with a downhill lie trying to chip up the side bank...
Bunker on a mound right, hiding the back half of the putting surface from the tee






Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #82 on: April 29, 2021, 08:24:32 PM »
Panmure no 5 - 140


Fortrose and Rosemarkie 5 - 133


Sagebrush 12 - 125




 

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2021, 08:39:42 PM »
   I’ll mention one that should never be done again - #2 at Galloway National.  Not sure if there really is a green there at all.

Tal Oz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2021, 09:21:24 PM »
It's fresh in my mind after the LPGA last week, but both the 7th and 10th at Wilshire are great short holes on relatively simple land. 7 plays anywhere from 95-140 and 10 around 110-165.


Tom I'm sure you're intimately familiar with the 10th at Chicago. Again the land isn't remarkable at all. That green is so much fun to putt around on and very easily off of. Double thumbprint, encased by bunkers, and a strong back to front tilt. Plays anywhere from 120-160.

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2021, 09:31:37 PM »
The 8th at Holston Hills and the 4th at Culvers Academy are V shaped greens with bunkers along both sides of the front. What I like about these greens is how the front pin position is more challenging than the rear position. I think its ok for a short par three to play to varying degrees of difficulty day to day.

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2021, 09:36:53 PM »
Greenspring Valley’s 18th outside of Baltimore. Tough front pin, no good place to bail out with any pin. Cool ending to a round.

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2021, 11:34:22 PM »
Not sure why no one has nominated the the 6th at NGLA.  That green is so dynamic that the hole could be downright evil at 90 yards with some of the possible pins. That is a green you would never grow bored playing thousands of times!
And even built on a not so hilly spot, Old 14 at Engineers would be a great candidate.  It has to be the shortest reverse Redan ever built

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2021, 11:47:30 PM »
Look at the little hole that is 17 on Trinity Forest and was 8 during tournament.
Otherwise use a back bunker

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #89 on: April 30, 2021, 03:51:21 AM »
As to a particularly short one, that 70-ish yarder at La Cumbre in Argentina that Tom D has mentioned a couple of times has some intrigue and evil about it. A pimple with a flag on top?
atb

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #90 on: April 30, 2021, 08:09:21 AM »
It comes close to violating the no drop shot rule in the OP, but 13 at Bandon Preserve is a terrific Par 3. Multiple options for how to play it with a dynamic green.


Ira

Michael Felton

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #91 on: April 30, 2021, 10:21:58 AM »
Two nominations:


The first one on the more famous course - 7 at Royal Porthcawl. The club website has several pictures of it: https://www.royalporthcawl.com/course/course-tour/hole/7/ it's 119 yards and "flat", but a wild, yet tiny green on it.


The second one is probably the one I'd actually use. It's a Harry Colt hole that I doubt anyone else would mention on here - the 13th hole at Effingham GC in Surrey. Here is a picture of it: https://twitter.com/steve_slinger/status/1328437853479690240?s=20. It's about 130-150 depending on which tee you use. The green is shaped like a kidney bean. It's basically about 13 yards wide the whole way back and the inside of the kidney bean (which is on the left) is about 3 feet below the level of the green. The right side is the high side, but there's a little one foot-ish drop off to that side too. The green slopes right to left, so if you want to hit it close, you have to aim at the right half and if you miss it right then you have a devilish little chip up to a green sloping away. It's easier to get it up and down if you miss left, but still awkward. The slope on the green is enough that if the pin is back left and you hit it front left, the slope will bring the ball around to the hole. Great little hole and a tough 3. Better picture:

« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:31:37 AM by Michael Felton »

David Wuthrich

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2021, 10:49:19 AM »



Hillhead - shortest par 5 at Shinnecock ;D
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 12:03:13 PM by David Wuthrich »

Colin Sheehan

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2021, 12:09:17 PM »
If it is iconic short holes with drama, the Prince of Wales 12th at Durban is nice. Perhaps eliminate the back bunker and let that fall down a similar grade as the sides.


Another historically marvelous hole would be the Gibraltar at Moortown.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2021, 12:09:55 PM »



Hillhead - shortest par 5 at Shinnecock ;D


I forgot about 11. It is a terrifying 150 yards.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jason Topp

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #95 on: April 30, 2021, 03:38:22 PM »
I like the short one at Wildhorse.  I can’t remember the number.   


 The short hole to a tiny perched and/or pinched green has been done many times and usually is an all or nothing shot.  That hole is short to a giant green with enough contour that 4 is the likely score if you don’t control the tee shot.  I think it is a nice change of pace from the norm and somewhat up Tom’s alley.   

Steve_Lovett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #96 on: April 30, 2021, 04:01:46 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned #12 at Augusta National. Different shot requirements based on the hole location. Most seem to favor narrow greens for these holes - but I think a wide, shallow green might present a more interesting challenge.

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2021, 04:41:21 PM »
I didn't see the 10th at Moortown - MacKenzie's famous Gibralter hole mentioned.


Depending on the length of the corridor you're working with, I would think that the concept could be readily adapted.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #98 on: April 30, 2021, 05:06:06 PM »
I didn't see the 10th at Moortown - MacKenzie's famous Gibralter hole mentioned.



Actually, it was mentioned earlier.  But it's also 180 yards.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #99 on: April 30, 2021, 05:11:38 PM »
Worth mentioning that downhill holes play shorter than their specified yardage and that uphill holes play longer. And then there’s the prevailing wind direction.
Atb