International Travel

[Mike Hendren]

This thread has devolved into a Buda buzz killer.


Bogey

[Jerry Kluger]

"When you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health and that of the family, but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community," he said. "In other words, you become a dead-end to the virus.  And when there are a lot of dead ends around, the virus is not going to go anywhere."
[/size][/color]
[/size]That is a very recent statement of Dr. Fauci so the vaccines not only prevent individuals from getting the virus but also from spreading the virus.  Those who are vaccinated and get the virus only get mild cases and none have been hospitalized or have died.  The vaccines have also been proven effective against all the strains which have come along.  Those who have had the virus have nearly always been protected against getting it again.  As I understand it the combination of those groups can lead to herd immunity without everyone being vaccinated.  [/color]

[/size]The US has had states dealing with the virus differently with respect to schools, restaurants, etc.  There are many schools which have been open since last September and other than some temporary shutdowns have not had any significant outbreaks of the virus and did not result in the transmission of the virus to the most vulnerable.  Restaurants have been open in some states with limited occupancy and have not had any higher incidents of virus transmission.  What is clear is that the virus has been the most deadly with the most vulnerable, namely, the elderly, those who are obese, and those suffering from hypertension and certain other underlying conditions.  Sure, the best thing would have been to not let the virus get into the country as New Zealand and Australia were able to do but the virus had already gotten into the population of most countries before a complete shutdown would work.  [/color]

[/size]I am just an old guy who has tried to understand what this virus is all about and I am confident that in the near future things will be sufficiently under control whereby certain measures will allow for THE BUDA TO GO ON AS PLANNED![/color]

[Mike Sweeney]

THE BUDA TO GO ON AS PLANNED!

I will miss the BUDA again, but only because the wife of 28 years is requiring me to re-start our annual 9/11 tradition of seeing "Come From Away" on 9/14/21:



If Broadway is back in September 2021, I hope BUDA is back in the UK/Ireland...

[Scott Warren]

Sure, the best thing would have been to not let the virus get into the country as New Zealand and Australia were able to do but the virus had already gotten into the population of most countries before a complete shutdown would work.

Hi Jerry,


I just want to respond to this, because I think it inaccurately paints Australia as lucky when in fact we are where we are because we were disciplined.


The disease got into Australia just as it got into every country. There are demographic, socioeconomic and cultural factors in every country that made a difference in how the virus spread, but the fact is it's a highly-contagious disease and had the opportunity in the first weeks of the pandemic to get wildly out of control in any place.


A lot of Americans and Brits (and some Australians) like to mock our highly-regulated society, call it a nanny-state, wax poetic about civil liberties and freedom... but ultimately we avoided disaster because we shut down early and strictly, then observed long-term legislated distancing and mask use, combined with (in NSW at least) a world-leading contact tracing system (fully-funded public health system FTW!).


Other countries' leaders and communities failed to adequately respond to the virus's threat and as a direct result of their decisions and actions, had catastrophic numbers of people die. I'm not doing a victory dance on those graves, because it's an absolute disaster and the definition of a tragedy, but I take pretty strong exception to the inference that we were just lucky and also the entitlement from those in countries where this pandemic was not well-managed now telling other countries what they should do with their borders and when.


We have had the luxury of a more normal lifestyle than most countries in the past six months or so after eliminating our initial outbreaks, and it makes complete sense to continue to tightly control borders until our vaccination program is more mature and more is known about how the virus behaves in vaccinated people.


We would love a return to international travel as much as anyone, but we have worked too hard for the situation we have to jeopardise it recklessly.

[Daryl David]

A slightly different take on the current Covid strategy in Australia.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/11/australia-borders-covid-hermit-kingdom/

[Mike Sweeney]

Other countries' leaders and communities failed to adequately respond to the virus's threat and as a direct result of their decisions and actions, had catastrophic numbers of people die. I'm not doing a victory dance on those graves, because it's an absolute disaster and the definition of a tragedy, but I take pretty strong exception to the inference that we were just lucky and also the entitlement from those in countries where this pandemic was not well-managed now telling other countries what they should do with their borders and when.

Scott,


I know of two people from Company 11 USNA '19, that are now US Marine Officers that have deployed to Oz in the last 6 months and are training your troops, and other troops in your country. We have mutual friends and one of those people in that picture want your Sunday Masters tickets for 2022!!




I personally think we should/could shrink the US Military by 30-40 percent, but nobody at the Pentagon has asked me. That said, let's understand that America is not the idiot country portrayed in the modern media, and we are in a complicated position as a World Leader. There are people above that have served your country, my country, and the world under President's Obama, Trump, and Biden. How complicated is that statement???!!

The concept that any one person or a small group of "leaders" can achieve "world peace" or "covid perfection" is the REAL problem. In my opinion, the solutions lie with people, their families, and their local communities. Of course they should listen to guidance and direction from above, but I prefer Tom Doak on the ground style decisions over Tom Fazio in the office design decisions in golf architecture, and in life.

#SemperFi

[Scott Warren]

Just to add one thing after reading your reply, Mike S -- no one down here is happy about a prolonged border closure and it's not some badge of honour that we're doing it, it just stacks up as the right decision for our country. That's partially because our government has completely botched its vaccine program, so we're not immune to leaders making regrettable decisions.


Personally, it's devastating to not be able to come and go and have my friends and family from overseas come to visit. And as you note, having missed the '21 Masters due to COVID, I'm also looking certain to miss '22 as well because of the border situation, apparently much to your friend's benefit!


My wife and I live a pretty modest existence week-to-week so we can save money and travel internationally with our kids. It's killing us to not be able to do that for such a long time, and given Australia's #1 export is tourism, it's not doing wonders for the economy either, but given the alternative I think it's a decision that most Australians accept is the right one.

[Lou_Duran]

This thread has devolved into a Buda buzz killer.


Bogey

Yep.  After having a lengthy conversation with an American heading over soon, the hoops that he is jumping through are more than I can handle.  I was hoping for some guidance from the organizers, but maybe the subject matter is too sensitive.


The pros and cons of a vaccine passport aside, until there is a consensus on the vaccines' effectiveness and an acceptance of a level of risk above 0%, this option and others similar are mostly moot.  A good number of people in this world value physical security well above freedom, though I would argue that the former is rather meaningless in the absence of the latter.


I do admire NZ's and Australia's abilities to defend their borders.  A lot easier to manage a carefully crafted population with similar expectations and aspirations.  My well-planned, Covid-postponed maiden voyage of March 2020 remains at the top of my bucket list.  Hopefully I can reschedule at the first chance some 2.5 years later.

[John Mayhugh]

Yep.  After having a lengthy conversation with an American heading over soon, the hoops that he is jumping through are more than I can handle.  I was hoping for some guidance from the organizers, but maybe the subject matter is too sensitive.

Guidance from the Buda organizers? That would really be asking a lot. I'm not sure how anyone on GCA would know what the UK (or US) government do.

As of now, the USA is still on the UK's amber list, so a quarantine of five days minimum (and a private covid test) is required. For me, that makes a trip impractical and undesirable. Hopefully the US gets moved to the green list, but even then there is some risk of things changing. The scary thing about the green list is even if the US is on it but you "traveled to England with someone who has tested positive" then it's quarantine time again. What's unclear is how they define "with." Imagine being fully vaccinated, testing negative, with antibodies, but sit next to someone on a flight  & that person tests positive. Now you're in mandatory quarantine for ten days.

I started the year optimistic about making it to Buda, now I'm not. Running out of time for planning, and the risk of logistical nightmares looms.

[Lou_Duran]

JM,


Perhaps I was not clear enough.  I wasn't looking for a prediction on what the UK government was going to do with respect to opening its borders to American visitors.   I am painfully aware of the many political considerations involved beyond "the science".


What I was specifically trying to evaluate is the perspective espoused by David Thomas, i.e. that those who didn't remain in their home country for the remainder of 2021 were several levels below a good human being.  If this is a widely held belief over there, I certainly wouldn't want to cause these folks grief.


Like you, I am running out of time to make arrangements.   And given my awful experiences with American Airlines (the dominant carrier out of DFW) since March of 2020, rolling the dice is not a desirable option.

[Duncan Cheslett]

As the main BUDA organiser, I’m not sure what “guidance” I am qualified to give. Like everyone else, I am an impotent observer on the sidelines reliant solely on the published government statements.


Things are not looking promising and I think we all know that. While superficially people flying out to Portugal today on holiday is being heralded as “good news” the distinct feeling I am getting from the public at large is that most people would favour keeping the borders closed for months if not the rest of the year so as to preserve the gains made during the recent prolonged period of sacrifice.


This public sentiment will not be lost on the government who appear to have got away with their dilatory performance at the start of the pandemic by their gamble on buying up every vaccine under development coming good. They will not want to risk their current popularity by a premature relaxation of travel restrictions allowing in possible deadly variants.


I do not envisage the number of “green list” countries growing any time soon. This is not pessimism - simply acknowledgment of the situation we are in.


BUDA will take place whether or not our overseas friends are able to attend. I fervently hope that things change in the coming weeks and that a full event is possible. Even at a smaller scale it will be a fabulous gathering.


If people do decide to withdraw I would ask that they let us know ASAP so that plans can be amended.

[Daryl David]

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEPVN5PEqbo6cppnYALg1CaYqMwgEKioIACIQS_7zNV9h30rXizebfDKKJSoUCAoiEEv-8zVfYd9K14s3m3wyiiUw9YuDBw?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen


https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/italy-reopens-to-international-travelers


Italy and Germany follow Portugal and Greece.  One by one countries are opening. Chasing the dollars.

[Thomas Dai]

A few days ago I posted a very blunt comment on this thread. In order to attract some attention, and I’m glad I did, I deliberately posted it in a very blunt manner as some of the website links referenced in this thread and some of the comments resulting from them are decidedly alarming.
There is still an international pandemic. An international pandemic. Covid and it’s various variants is still with us. Folks throughout the world, 200 or so countries, are being extremely ill, suffering longterm life changing symptoms, even dying and yet some still consider it appropriate to travel internationally to play golf, which ultimately is a leisure activity, a pastime, not a necessity of life.
In the U.K. the health service is still stretched, some nervous elderly folks are still self isolating never leaving their own homes, face masks are still being universally worn, no one is shaking hands, folks are reluctant to share cars with others and travel on public transport. Social distancing has become a subconscious thing. If you pull into a petrol station to fill-up your cars tank you’ll be expected to wear provided disposable gloves and stand a few feet away from other customers when you queue-up to pay. And the payment/check-out person will be sitting behind a perspex screen wearing a mask (as they will be in all shops etc).
Despite what some websites, media outlets and maybe even the government are suggesting, life is still way, way different to what it was like 18 months ago.
Do most in my circle of family, friends, acquaintances etc want to see overseas visitors irrespective of country of origin or whether they are golfers or others, fly into the U.K. and enjoy themselves here? Yes, absolutely, very much so. And we want to travel overseas too but as Duncan suggests, despite the fact that the government has seen it fit to now have a small number of opportunities open, the general public would seem to prefer to see borders closed, ie it is generally not considered appropriate, sensible, to travel to or from the U.K. this year.
Next year hopefully yes, and we’d love to see you. But this year given current circumstances, no.
If folks from overseas do decide to travel to the U.K. you most likely will not be made to feel unwelcome although non-local voices and accents will likely attract glances over shoulders and probably hushed derogatory comments in the background.
Stay safe.
Atb

Later edit for information and reference purposes - see US Embassy in the UK’s website - https://uk.usembassy.gov/covid-19-coronavirus-information/

[Dan_Callahan]

the general public would seem to prefer to see borders closed, ie it is generally not considered appropriate, sensible, to travel to or from the U.K. this year.

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/thousands-jet-off-on-holiday-as-englands-foreign-leisure-travel-ban-lifted-40433591.html

Seems like some segment of the "general public" in the UK is perfectly fine with traveling to other countries. Despite the pandemic.

[Kalen Braley]

the general public would seem to prefer to see borders closed, ie it is generally not considered appropriate, sensible, to travel to or from the U.K. this year.

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/thousands-jet-off-on-holiday-as-englands-foreign-leisure-travel-ban-lifted-40433591.html

Seems like some segment of the "general public" in the UK is perfectly fine with traveling to other countries. Despite the pandemic.

As Dan implies it really depends on who you ask as to whether one is willing to travel or even take COVID seriously for that matter.

Living in a very conservative part of the US, many here still treat here it as a joke/hoax and refuse to even consider getting the vaccine.  Its gotten to the point where they are starting to effectively bribe people with free stuff and/or holding "Vaccination raffles" where a lucky winner wins a new car or a million dollars.  Beyond sad given most other places in the world are desperate for vaccines.

The extent to which this has been politicized, at least in the US, cannot be over-estimated.

[Duncan Cheslett]

the general public would seem to prefer to see borders closed, ie it is generally not considered appropriate, sensible, to travel to or from the U.K. this year.

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/thousands-jet-off-on-holiday-as-englands-foreign-leisure-travel-ban-lifted-40433591.html

Seems like some segment of the "general public" in the UK is perfectly fine with traveling to other countries. Despite the pandemic.

Travel is in effect limited to one country - Portugal. The fact that prices have not soared to astronomic levels suggest that demand is not particularly high.

[Robin_Hiseman]

For business purposes, I am making a trip to Bulgaria from the UK next week.


For those thinking about coming to the UK from the USA, let me walk you through the arrivals procedure.


If you wish to avoid a 10-day quarantine, you can opt to pay for a 'Test to Release' after 5 days.


Here is the rub...you will need to have a test on days 2, 5 and 8 after your arrival, so even if you get released from quarantine on Day 5, you must do a final test on Day 8. If you test positive then you're screwed. It's back into quarantine you go for a minimum of 10 days. Currently, the three test package costs around £340. You can travel from your quarantine location to the test centre, but have to return immediately to your self-isolating location.


All in all, it's a non starter for anyone wanting to come here for a vacation, or until vaccination passports allow more freedom of travel.

[Lou_Duran]

All of this is a form of nudging to get people to do what the authorities want without entirely eliminating alternatives.  With the aforementioned restrictions, they will succeed in keeping careful, vaccinated travelers away.  The urge to travel will not be suppressed.  The money will accrue to the benefit of those destinations that are more receptive.  An important consideration for producers of many consumer goods: be careful in giving away market share; it may be really hard to win it back.  A guy in Dallas who normally travels to the UK makes a maiden voyage to Bandon and finds the experience outstanding.  Is he as likely to return to Scotland as before?  Just a thought.     

[Mark Chaplin]

Thomas Dai I must visit this other U.K. where everyone is in fear and the health service is still under stress.


I shook hands with a mate and drove him to the golf club earlier, the only unusual thing was going to my local for a couple of pints of Guinness and the landlady was smoking behind the bar. There were some (ignored) Covid  rules posted. I was on the road from 5 weeks into wave 1 Covid testing and have yet to fill up in a garage wearing gloves.

[Thomas Dai]

Thomas Dai I must visit this other U.K. where everyone is in fear and the health service is still under stress.
I shook hands with a mate and drove him to the golf club earlier, the only unusual thing was going to my local for a couple of pints of Guinness and the landlady was smoking behind the bar. There were some (ignored) Covid  rules posted. I was on the road from 5 weeks into wave 1 Covid testing and have yet to fill up in a garage wearing gloves.

I'd like to say "you'd be welcome" but, and it's not meant as a personal attack, I'm not sure you would be!
Nice post Robin.
Stay safe.
atb

[Mike Sweeney]

Sitting in NYC, it is pretty hard to say that we were not the center of North American Covid in April/May 2020.


In the last two weeks, the clouds of lockdowns, fear, and restrictions are lifting. Restaurants are 100% open for indoor seating, Broadway has an opening date.


Perhaps international travel will follow...

[Daryl David]

Unrestricted US travel to Ireland for vaccinated people as early as July



https://www.irishcentral.com/news/us-travel-ireland-vaccinated

[Craig Sweet]

"But I hope that you will see at some point in July, or at the latest in August, EU travel opening up again on the basis of the protection that vaccines give us, and we’d like to do the same with the United States.
[/size]“But we will have to put a system in place in terms of verifying the vaccinations in terms of vaccination certs with the US, which isn’t as straightforward because we won’t have the equivalent of a green cert system that’s been put in place by the European Commission."[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]SO NO< HE DID NOT SAY US TRAVEL TO IRELAND BY EARLY JULY!  He hedged his bet...[/color]

[Duncan Cheslett]

All of this is a form of nudging to get people to do what the authorities want without entirely eliminating alternatives.  With the aforementioned restrictions, they will succeed in keeping careful, vaccinated travelers away.  The urge to travel will not be suppressed.  The money will accrue to the benefit of those destinations that are more receptive.  An important consideration for producers of many consumer goods: be careful in giving away market share; it may be really hard to win it back.  A guy in Dallas who normally travels to the UK makes a maiden voyage to Bandon and finds the experience outstanding.  Is he as likely to return to Scotland as before?  Just a thought.   

I don’t suppose the financial benefits of a few thousand U.S. golf tourists even feature on the government’s radar.


They will be far more concerned with U.K. citizens travelling abroad in their tens of millions and what deadly variants they might return with.


Also with visitors from around the world with questionable covid provenance.


The danger is that American golfers get caught up in long term blanket restrictions that are far simpler to impose than selective ones.

[David_Tepper]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-19/europe-opens-door-to-vaccinated-americans-with-new-travel-rules